I-864 AOS - Sponsor/Joint Sponsor Questions

[SupMan 0]

Hey everyone,

 

I have a bit of a very weird, baffling situation here that needs some reflection and insightful advice. First, let me give you the facts:

1-I, the applicant, attended an interview at the U.S. embassy as the IR1 immigrant visa as a spouse of a U.S citizen a few months ago.

2-This is about the I-864 Affidavit of Support (AOS) for the US spouse and the Joint Sponsor (JS).

3-My wife had 0 income for the past 3 tax years and was not required to file due to income being below required amount (letter of explanation for not filing was attached).

4-This was the case at the time of filing and interview as well.

5-We had a joint sponsor who for the year of filing (2019) - Covid conditions delayed our case until today.

6-At interview, consular asked for joint sponsor's 2020 taxes - I asked if we can change the joint sponsor, the consular said I could if I cannot get 2020 taxes or the JS's income is below required limits.

The result was 221g.

7-After the interview, my wife had moved back to the US, got employed, and now makes more than enough income for the both of us (based on Poverty Guidelines).

Note that, taxes are still 0 for all 3 most recent years, but source and level of income has now changed.

8-We submitted new I-864 AOS for the petitioner and we sent paystubs and all the usual AOS evidence to prove income.

9-We submitted new I-864 AOS for a new JS with 2020 tax returns that meets & exceeds the income requirements for the household size + me.

This was just to make sure they won't turn us down for some trivial excuse.

Note that, the AOS form had "I am the only joint sponsor." checked for both old and new JS.

10-They called the new JS and confirmed he's in agreement and that he actually knows me (that he's been my friend for years).

11-US Embassy calls me and says they want another, new joint sponsor that "I know".
They didn't say why or justified why my wife's income was not considered. This is so far the most baffling part.

12-Communicating with the embassy is just not the best option at all. They either don't respond at your emails, or they overlook things (yes, they really do!).

We're so confused by the current situation as looks as if though we've done everything by the book and yet we're still getting turned down.

So, I'll do my best to phrase my questions:

1) Does the length of employment for the petitioner matter for sponsorship purposes? If yes, how long does it need to be?
2) Why would they still need a joint sponsor if the petitioner already meets and exceeds minimum income levels for household size based on Poverty Guidelines)?

Isn't the purpose of a JS is to meet sponsorship requirements IF the petitioner doesn't? I'm either missing something or they clearly made a mistake.

3) Since I cannot provide another new joint sponsor at this point, and my wife's income should be sufficient (2021 taxes will still be 0 and a letter of explanation will be attached) ...

    Should we submit a new AOS for the petitioner? And when? provided the answer for question #1.

4) How do we withdraw the joint sponsors' (old and new) AOS ourselves?

5) Has anyone been in a similar situation where they asked for another JS despite the first or second one being qualified, and the petitioner as well.

 

I hope I explained the situation well and phrased the questions properly. We could really use some helpful input here.

Thank you very much!

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by SupMan

[arken 4,197]

17 minutes ago, SupMan said:

10-They called the new JS and confirmed he's in agreement and that he actually knows me (that he's been my friend for years).

11-US Embassy calls me and says they want another, new joint sponsor that "I know".
They didn't say why or justified why my wife's income was not considered. This is so far the most baffling part.

You didn't know the new JS good enough that the embassy wanted a new one you actually know??

 

Sometimes they don't accept a fresh employment with limited paystubs if there was no income history. Employment length matters in such cases.

 

You don't need to withdraw previous JS. Your latest i864 will supercede the others.

[SupMan 0]

13 minutes ago, arken said:

You didn't know the new JS good enough that the embassy wanted a new one you actually know??

That would be the weirdest part, for many reasons: I know the JS very well, he told them that, and there's no such measure or criteria to determine "how well do you know the JS".

So, that part makes no sense on its own.

 

15 minutes ago, arken said:

Sometimes they don't accept a fresh employment with limited paystubs if there was no income history. Employment length matters in such cases.

Well, how long should the employment length be? I think that is the most important question in this case.

16 minutes ago, arken said:

You don't need to withdraw previous JS. Your latest i864 will supercede the others.

I thought as much. So, that part should solve itself.

 

The questions remain: What is going on? What now? How best to use the new employment? We've got a few paystubs already and the income is verifiable (new employment and income were submitted also as a part of proving domicile, and that was not questioned, so I'm guessing they saw it and accepted it).

[pushbrk 12,975]

It's always helpful to know the country.  It often makes a difference in the advice.  The public charge decision is always a judgment call, so there are no hard and fast rules for success.  

 

What is you relationship to the current joint sponsor? If friend, ok but how good a friend for how long matters.  Friend of whom?  You, or the petitioner?  All these things matter in getting useful advice here.

[SupMan 0]

29 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

It's always helpful to know the country.  It often makes a difference in the advice.  The public charge decision is always a judgment call, so there are no hard and fast rules for success.  

 

What is you relationship to the current joint sponsor? If friend, ok but how good a friend for how long matters.  Friend of whom?  You, or the petitioner?  All these things matter in getting useful advice here.

These are good questions to address. The country is Egypt. JS is my life long friend ... we're talking years and years. That's what he told them when they asked him over the phone.

Wouldn't having the petitioner + JS's on AOS with enough income remove all doubts regarding any possible future public charge? I thought that was the main purpose of the AOS.

This is certainly mind boggling to me.

 

[pushbrk 12,975]

7 hours ago, SupMan said:

These are good questions to address. The country is Egypt. JS is my life long friend ... we're talking years and years. That's what he told them when they asked him over the phone.

Wouldn't having the petitioner + JS's on AOS with enough income remove all doubts regarding any possible future public charge? I thought that was the main purpose of the AOS.

This is certainly mind boggling to me.

 

When you say talking years and years, it gives the impression you've never met in person.  If that is true, fine a new sponsor, preferably who has an easily definable relationship with the petitioner.

 

No, a short term on a job is not necessarily enough to overcome the public charge concern.

[carmel34 3,639]

I suggest two things:

 

1. Wait a few more months so that your wife's income in the US is more established, then she can send you more paystubs.  Working in the US for a few weeks or months with 3 previous years all zero income is likely the main concern about her ability to support you financially.  Six months is a good rule of thumb, but this varies by consulate/embassy.  Amounts matter as well, if her annual income as confirmed by an employer letter is barely above the poverty guidelines, they may question it.  The officers consider the "totality of the circumstances."  It is a judgment call on their part, not a strict formula.  Where will you be living in the US?  Some states and cities are much more expensive than others.  What is her household size on the I-864?  Does she have health insurance for herself and you?  Do you have health care needs?  All of these issues are considered as part of the "totality of the circumstances" in making the judgment about your risk of becoming a public charge in the US.

 

2. Find a new joint sponsor with an income well above the minimum who knows your US citizen wife.  One concern in your case could be that the previous joint sponsors you submitted were your friends, not hers.

 

Good luck!

[SupMan 0]

23 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

When you say talking years and years, it gives the impression you've never met in person.  If that is true, fine a new sponsor, preferably who has an easily definable relationship with the petitioner.

 

No, a short term on a job is not necessarily enough to overcome the public charge concern.

The JS told them he knew me in person from before he immigrated to the US because we were initially coworkers.

But anyway, that's most likely the situation with most immigrants, besides the spouse and immediate family members, as well as in-laws, friends are the next best thing.

Given the explanation from the JS to them, that should have cleared it up. But even then, that's not a basis to say "No" to the JS .. I don't think so, but what say you?

 

4 minutes ago, carmel34 said:

I suggest two things:

 

1. Wait a few more months so that your wife's income in the US is more established, then she can send you more paystubs.  Working in the US for a few weeks or months with 3 previous years all zero income is likely the main concern about her ability to support you financially.  Six months is a good rule of thumb, but this varies by consulate/embassy.  Amounts matter as well, if her annual income as confirmed by an employer letter is barely above the poverty guidelines, they may question it.  The officers consider the "totality of the circumstances."  It is a judgment call on their part, not a strict formula.  Where will you be living in the US?  Some states and cities are much more expensive than others.  What is her household size on the I-864?  Does she have health insurance for herself and you?  Do you have health care needs?  All of these issues are considered as part of the "totality of the circumstances" in making the judgment about your risk of becoming a public charge in the US.

 

2. Find a new joint sponsor with an income well above the minimum who knows your US citizen wife.  One concern in your case could be that the previous joint sponsors you submitted were your friends, not hers.

 

Good luck!

1. Six months sounds good. City is relatively cheap. Current income level exceeds the household size by a couple of numbers for the poverty guidelines.

Health insurance and needs and all that are not considered in the criteria of AOS.

2. That doesn't make any sense in the context of AOS because the obligation of the sponsor and the JS is financial responsibility towards to the immigrant, so they have to be "willing" to support the immigrant. That simply means if JS is friends with immigrant = likelihood of willingness to support. Maybe you have another justification for what you said?

[SupMan 0]

52 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

If that is true, fine a new sponsor, preferably who has an easily definable relationship with the petitioner.

Currently, this is the biggest issue. I have already exhausted my list of joint sponsors.

Therefore, my question about using my wife's current income. It's supposed to be convincing enough without the need for a JS.

My question would now be this:

Do you think we have a shot if we waited the six months period (counted from the date of employment, I guess), then submitted a new AOS with pay stubs for the petitioner/wife, without JS at all this time?

[pushbrk 12,975]

10 hours ago, SupMan said:

Currently, this is the biggest issue. I have already exhausted my list of joint sponsors.

Therefore, my question about using my wife's current income. It's supposed to be convincing enough without the need for a JS.

My question would now be this:

Do you think we have a shot if we waited the six months period (counted from the date of employment, I guess), then submitted a new AOS with pay stubs for the petitioner/wife, without JS at all this time?

Yes, there's a chance, but you really need to start ignoring your own opinions and listen to the people who know how the system works and are trying to help you.  You still haven't mentioned which country you're coming from.  It matters.  What is it?  The stronger Joint Sponsor is a US Citizen or long term permanent resident who has a definable close relationship with the petitioner.  You don't have to agree.  It just is what it is.  

 

What country are you coming from?  What...IS...your wife's new job and how much is her income?

[SupMan 0]

2 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

Yes, there's a chance, but you really need to start ignoring your own opinions and listen to the people who know how the system works and are trying to help you.  You still haven't mentioned which country you're coming from.  It matters.  What is it?  The stronger Joint Sponsor is a US Citizen or long term permanent resident who has a definable close relationship with the petitioner.  You don't have to agree.  It just is what it is.  

 

What country are you coming from?  What...IS...your wife's new job and how much is her income?

Oh I actually mentioned the answers to both questions in a previous post that you quoted.

Country is Egypt.

The newest JS has been greencard holder for at least 4 years.
Wife's income exceeds current HHS poverty guidelines for a household size of 3, as stated here: https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p
We only need it enough for 2 though.

[pushbrk 12,975]

12 minutes ago, SupMan said:

Oh I actually mentioned the answers to both questions in a previous post that you quoted.

Country is Egypt.

The newest JS has been greencard holder for at least 4 years.
Wife's income exceeds current HHS poverty guidelines for a household size of 3, as stated here: https://www.uscis.gov/i-864p
We only need it enough for 2 though.

I see.  What is your wife's job and how much is her income?  It's a two part question.  Note that exceeding the minimum is still marginal.  For example, the higher her income, the more likely it will be accepted from a short term job, but it also matters what kind of job it is.  Career type jobs carry more weight, so please answer both parts of the question.  The quality of our answers and advise depend on the quality and quantity of information you provide.

 

For example, a Walmart Sales associate, is often a job that people don't stay at long.  Sometimes they do.  A person with a College degree who just took a job applicable to their field of study tends to be a career position.  They may change jobs but the new job will be an improvement.

 

Edited May 15, 2022 by pushbrk

[SupMan 0]

17 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

I see.  What is your wife's job and how much is her income?  It's a two part question.  Note that exceeding the minimum is still marginal.  For example, the higher her income, the more likely it will be accepted from a short term job, but it also matters what kind of job it is.  Career type jobs carry more weight, so please answer both parts of the question.  The quality of our answers and advise depend on the quality and quantity of information you provide.

 

For example, a Walmart Sales associate, is often a job that people don't stay at long.  Sometimes they do.  A person with a College degree who just took a job applicable to their field of study tends to be a career position.  They may change jobs but the new job will be an improvement.

 

That kind of makes sense actually, although I think such a judgement call would be based on hypotheticals and guesswork is unfair.

The question now is what should hold true for the petitioner's future AOS in terms of employment length and history?

For example, if the employment started in January this year, then when should we submit a new AOS for the petitioner?

Also, what do we do about the joint sponsor (now that we're not getting a new one)?

[pushbrk 12,975]

3 minutes ago, SupMan said:

That kind of makes sense actually, although I think such a judgement call would be based on hypotheticals and guesswork is unfair.

The question now is what should hold true for the petitioner's future AOS in terms of employment length and history?

For example, if the employment started in January this year, then when should we submit a new AOS for the petitioner?

Also, what do we do about the joint sponsor (now that we're not getting a new one)?

Fair or not, Consular Officers are trained to consider the totality of the circumstances in making the public charge decision. They even consider your employment history and employability.  Frankly, your opinion about whether it's fair or not is ultimately irrelevant, and useless to discuss here.  You don't need to convince VJ members here.  You need to convince the Consular Officer who is doing a job they are trained to do and have rules to follow.

 

Make your own judgment call about how to go forward from here, as that's what you are going to do anyway.  Let the result be whatever it is.  I/we know better than to predict odds or chances.  You did ask a direct question above but I don't understand the question or how to answer it.

[SupMan 0]

56 minutes ago, pushbrk said:

Fair or not, Consular Officers are trained to consider the totality of the circumstances in making the public charge decision. They even consider your employment history and employability.  Frankly, your opinion about whether it's fair or not is ultimately irrelevant, and useless to discuss here.  You don't need to convince VJ members here.  You need to convince the Consular Officer who is doing a job they are trained to do and have rules to follow.

 

Make your own judgment call about how to go forward from here, as that's what you are going to do anyway.  Let the result be whatever it is.  I/we know better than to predict odds or chances.  You did ask a direct question above but I don't understand the question or how to answer it.

Thanks @pushbrk. I truly appreciate your insightful opinion.

 

I'd certainly be of great help if someone has gone through a similar experience and shared it with us here.