Hague Adoption Process Question -- Can my English niece come to live with us?

[alexandaaron 13]

8 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

Totally agree.  The amount of money it would take to accomplish what the OP wants to do (including the cost of moving overseas) would go a LONG way to helping that struggling family.

I realize that in trying to be discreet, I wasn't entirely clear in my original post. Our concerns (to be clear, these are shared by the rest of the extended family) are not primarily financial.

[alexandaaron 13]

8 hours ago, SusieQQQ said:

Uni may not be cheap anymore in the UK, but it's much cheaper than the US per year, and it's only 3 years not 4. And do they still have that system where you don't start paying back student loans until you're earning a certain amount of income?

 

Agree with the last line zoeeeeee says above too. The cheapest private school I know of locally is $22k a year, not high school. The high schools run around $50k a year. I daresay the equivalent of two years of private high school in the US is about enough to support the niece through A-levels and a 3-year uni degree. The college funds apparently available for the eldest could do the same for the other two.

I appreciate the concern, but a good private school in our area runs between ~$7k and ~$20k per year. In-state college is ~$12k/yr. The other children won't be in university for another 10 years; this one is significantly older than her siblings.

[SalishSea 16,768]

2 minutes ago, alexandaaron said:

I realize that in trying to be discreet, I wasn't entirely clear in my original post. Our concerns (to be clear, these are shared by the rest of the extended family) are not primarily financial.

Okay.  Well, as England has an amazing social welfare infrastructure, perhaps the most immediate action would be to contact the DHSS/child protective services?  Because if the 15 year old is in danger (does not have to be physical danger) or being neglected, chances are the other children are also.

[alexandaaron 13]

8 hours ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

Totally agree with the above comments - unless there’s more to this story and this child isn’t happy in her home, removing her and separating her from her mum and siblings actually sounds quite cruel.

 

Re education - there is nothing wrong with public/state/free schools in the UK. Me and my siblings all went to state school (and were raised by a single mum) and we’ve all been successful in our education and our careers. University isn’t cheap, though there are bursaries and/or student loans available - and if you have the funds to do what you’ve described in your original post, you could probably pay to put all three children through university, instead of adopting just one.

The concern is not at all with the quality of state schools in the UK -- I think they are a great option. And the issue is not primarily financial; there are other dimensions of unfitness, and at present, the child isn't even consistently going to school while dealing with home issues -- her mother claims that she doesn't have the time or authority to ensure that happens, so it's just out of her hands. Recently, she's missed all her mock exams for A levels.

[alexandaaron 13]

Just now, Jorgedig said:

Okay.  Well, as England has an amazing social welfare infrastructure, perhaps the most immediate action would be to contact the DHSS/child protective services?  Because if the 15 year old is in danger (does not have to be physical danger) or being neglected, chances are the other children are also.

I apologize if I sound like I'm being short with folks here -- as you can imagine, this is a pretty emotionally fraught issue and time, and we are genuinely really really concerned about the child.

[SalishSea 16,768]

1 minute ago, alexandaaron said:

The concern is not at all with the quality of state schools in the UK -- I think they are a great option. And the issue is not primarily financial; there are other dimensions of unfitness, and at present, the child isn't even consistently going to school while dealing with home issues -- her mother claims that she doesn't have the time or authority to ensure that happens, so it's just out of her hands. Recently, she's missed all her mock exams for A levels.

Is school attendance still compulsory at her age?  If so, maybe the mom needs a little help enforcing it.  Could you reach out to the school guidance counselor?

[SalishSea 16,768]

1 minute ago, alexandaaron said:

I apologize if I sound like I'm being short with folks here -- as you can imagine, this is a pretty emotionally fraught issue and time, and we are genuinely really really concerned about the child.

I get that! ❤️  Hugs all round.  We have had a similar situation, although it is actually with one of my husband's kids.  Very hard and frustrating when a large pond divides you physically.

[alexandaaron 13]

1 minute ago, Jorgedig said:

Is school attendance still compulsory at her age?  If so, maybe the mom needs a little help enforcing it.  Could you reach out to the school guidance counselor?

The school non-attendance -- among other issues with long-lasting ramifications -- is pretty much due to the mother, not in spite of her. I'd be happy to reach out to whoever might be of help at the school, but it appears they aren't able to intervene in this situation??? Please correct me if that's wrong, and I just need to call someone's supervisor.

[SalishSea 16,768]

Just now, alexandaaron said:

The school non-attendance -- among other issues with long-lasting ramifications -- is pretty much due to the mother, not in spite of her. I'd be happy to reach out to whoever might be of help at the school, but it appears they aren't able to intervene in this situation??? Please correct me if that's wrong, and I just need to call someone's supervisor.

Omg!  That is terrible!  I thought you meant that your niece did not want to attend.  Is the mom making her babysit or something?

 

There must be some help to be had from the school itself or the district (council?).  Just as our public school districts here have social workers and others who can intervene if there are issues at home.

[alexandaaron 13]

6 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

I get that! ❤️  Hugs all round.  We have had a similar situation, although it is actually with one of my husband's kids.  Very hard and frustrating when a large pond divides you physically.

That sounds even more difficult; I can't imagine. Ideally, one of her grandparents in country would take her; but unfortunately, one has serious health problems and the other has...other focal points at the moment. The rest of the family is fairly estranged from the mother and grandmother, the father has disconnected for a new family and expressed his non-interest in his daughter to his daughter, and the father of the other two siblings...did not treat her well or humanely, to say the absolute least, and I would never advocate leaving her alone with him under any circumstances. So it just seems there's no one...

Edited July 4, 2019 by alexandaaron

[alexandaaron 13]

4 minutes ago, Jorgedig said:

Omg!  That is terrible!  I thought you meant that your niece did not want to attend.  Is the mom making her babysit or something?

 

There must be some help to be had from the school itself or the district (council?).  Just as our public school districts here have social workers and others who can intervene if there are issues at home.

I know that if things get absolutely, critically dire, there is always the police and child neglect reporting. But obviously, that is a significantly more traumatic option with long-lasting ramifications for the mother, the younger siblings, and any potential future relationship with her, so it's something we'd really really prefer to avoid.

[SusieQQQ 11,584]

31 minutes ago, alexandaaron said:

The cost of her attending university in the UK would be ~ 9,000 GBP per year without scholarships; at our local in-state university, the cost would be ~ 12,000 USD -- so comparable/equal.

 

Ideally, she wouldn't have student loans.

She won’t qualify for instate college tuition on an F1. (Adoption is not a realistic option for you.) She obviously wouldn't be eligible for any federal funding either, and would have restrictions on the type of work she could do while studying. She would need to show proof of funding before getting the F1. 

 

You would also need to check that the cheap private high schools you refer to are SEVIS certified. Not all schools are. There is a database somewhere on the Dept of State pages dealing with F1s for high school where you can look up whether or not a school is SEVIS certified. If it’s not, she can’t be issued a F1 to study there. I know not all of our local privates are, and a couple of those that are charge higher fees for internationals too. 

 

22 minutes ago, alexandaaron said:

I realize that in trying to be discreet, I wasn't entirely clear in my original post. Our concerns (to be clear, these are shared by the rest of the extended family) are not primarily financial.

This is somewhat annoying. I understand there are sensitivities in your case, but the Internet is anonymous, and people work with what they have. So people have wasted time working out solutions to problems that are different from what you indicated originally. 

 

That said, It’s clearly a terrible situation and I hope you can find a way to deal with this. Is moving her to the grandparent while paying for a caretaker to help out there perhaps an option? At least she would be in a better environment? 

Edited July 4, 2019 by SusieQQQ

[alexandaaron 13]

11 minutes ago, SusieQQQ said:

She won’t qualify for instate college tuition on an F1. (Adoption is not a realistic option for you.) She obviously wouldn't be eligible for any federal funding either, and would have restrictions on the type of work she could do while studying. She would need to show proof of funding before getting the F1. 

 

You would also need to check that the cheap private high schools you refer to are SEVIS certified. Not all schools are. There is a database somewhere on the Dept of State pages dealing with F1s for high school where you can look up whether or not a school is SEVIS certified. If it’s not, she can’t be issued a F1 to study there. I know not all of our local privates are, and a couple of those that are charge higher fees for internationals too. 

 

This is somewhat annoying. I understand there are sensitivities in your case, but the Internet is anonymous, and people work with what they have. So people have wasted time working out solutions to problems that are different from what you indicated originally. 

We'd be fine figuring out tuition for her -- luckily, we're not in a high-cost state like California or Maryland, and our local community colleges also offer a great, affordable gateway into four-year universities. I feel confident we'd be OK; not sure why folks are fixating on the cost of schooling for this issue.

 

Thank you, but I started with SEVIS certification before even looking; the schools I'm mentioning are options specifically in that category.

 

I'm sorry if you feel you've wasted your time; I tried to put clear details in my original post, and apologize if a misunderstanding occurred. But the internet is not anonymous, and since there is a teenager involved who might curiously Google key phrases related to her situation someday, I didn't want to explicitly spell out the exact details of her circumstances.

 

In response to your edit: A caretaker alongside the grandmother *might* be an option, if the health issues can resolve a bit; I'm not confident about a caretaker alongside the grandfather, but it's a possibility. That said, I've no idea what role that would be -- an au pair? Or some sort of teenage mentor?? I genuinely am at a loss here...I've never had to deal with a situation like this before; I come from a large, close family with few issues, and when one of my aunts tragically couldn't care for her children anymore, my other aunts stepped in immediately to adopt and raise them. I really don't know what other options look like, and especially not in such a dysfunctional scenario, and so this is the first thing we're exploring.

 

Edited July 4, 2019 by alexandaaron

[Zoeeeeeee 795]

5 hours ago, Jorgedig said:

Is school attendance still compulsory at her age?  If so, maybe the mom needs a little help enforcing it.  Could you reach out to the school guidance counselor?

School attendance is compulsory until you’re 16 - and there are penalties/fines given to parents whose children do not attend school - so they do get involved, but depending on how much that parent cares, depends on how effective it is. If parents don’t pay the fines, they can actually be prosecuted - but schools try to avoid treading that path.

 

Just an FYI - you do your GCSEs at 15-16 and your A-levels at 17-18, so I’d assume her mock exams are actually for GCSEs?...which are important, but nowhere near as life-impacting as A-levels, so hopefully not too much damage has been done yet.

 

Now you’ve given more context, I totally understand the difficult spot you’re in - good luck.

[alexandaaron 13]

3 hours ago, Zoeeeeeee said:

School attendance is compulsory until you’re 16 - and there are penalties/fines given to parents whose children do not attend school - so they do get involved, but depending on how much that parent cares, depends on how effective it is. If parents don’t pay the fines, they can actually be prosecuted - but schools try to avoid treading that path.

 

Just an FYI - you do your GCSEs at 15-16 and your A-levels at 17-18, so I’d assume her mock exams are actually for GCSEs?...which are important, but nowhere near as life-impacting as A-levels, so hopefully not too much damage has been done yet.

 

Now you’ve given more context, I totally understand the difficult spot you’re in - good luck.

Thanks, you're right -- it is her GCSEs; I think I'm just anxious about it all and mis-remembering. I'm glad to know that they're slightly less important than the A levels, as that means we have a little more time to figure something out.

 

Yes, the school has spoken to her mother about the non-attendance, but like you said, there is a limit to what they can do without taking steps that get prosecution involved, which is obviously not desired.

 

I honestly feel so upset about the whole situation -- she is such a sweet girl, and nothing that is happening or has happened to her is fair; and I think we all see what her mother's choices are doing to her and how they've hurt her -- especially her mother's choices about the men she has permitted to cause harm to her children.

 

But it seems we can't do anything from where we are (other than bring her here and send her to private school and college) and I know my husband is wondering whether it was even wrong of him to come to the US, since if we WERE there she could just come live with us, away from her mother (although this didn't get REALLY bad until a while after we'd left, her mother was never making particularly good choices).

 

For even more context, my husband also dropped out of school at 16 -- his story worked out well, and he ended up going back to school to finish at 30, but he knows better than anyone how impossible it is when you're that age to understand how different your future life can be from the life you're living right now -- especially without the benefit of adult guidance. All of this has taken such a psychological toll on her that she's attempted serious harm to herself twice and has been in hospital, but her mother can't seem to manage to find time to get her a good therapist or to find her any other help...

 

I just honestly don't know what to do and this is on our minds every day. We have so much here -- time, space, resources, loving family members here in the US -- and this child who is our family member is just suffering and we're just watching. There HAS to be some way we can help, and people in this thread are fixating on costs, but we do not care about the cost -- we would pay anything we could at this point to improve things for her.

Edited July 4, 2019 by alexandaaron