China Police Clearance. Am I being scammed?

[Sails941 4]

Hello fellow Journiers,

 

My fiance worked in China around 2010, and we are attempting to obtain either a Police Clearance Certificate (PCC), or a letter stating the PCC is unobtainable. It's my understanding the US embassy will accept either when issuing a K1 visa. To avoid traveling to China we hired an agent to obtain either document on our behalf. Due to the amount of time that's past since my girlfriend worked in China she no longer has the documentation she registered at the local police station. Our agent said that without this there is less than 50% chance we'll get a PCC. I replied that a letter stating the PCC is unobtainable is not prefered, but acceptable. 

 

So on a Friday I pay half of his fee, and he tells me he's going to the local police station to request the PCC. On Monday I see that he emailed me Sunday that he can not find any of the visas I sent him, which he had previously acknowledged receiving, and I should send them again ASAP! On Tuesday morning I send them again, and he immediately sends me the Letter stating the local police require my fiance to apply in person with her original visas and work permits, and he concludes the Letter that the PCC is unobtainable. (I did ask why he applied for the PCC without the visas, and he later stated they didn't need them because the police were able to identify my fiance by the passport numbers.)

 

I am not sure this Letter will be of any use. It's certainly not a PCC, and since it states my fiance can apply for the PCC in China, it doesn't appear that the PCC is absolutely unobtainable. Now the agent is asking for the other half of the money which will total $600. 

 

Your thoughts are requested. Do you believe the US embassy would accept such a letter? Or would they just say, "Well it looks like you better go to China and apply for the PCC." To me, a "unobtainable PCC" is unobtainable from the Chinese police period, not just unobtainable by the agent. I felt going in the agent was selling either a PCC, or a unobtainable PCC. Now I feel like he's selling something else.

 

Sorry for rambling. See the letter below. Your thoughts greatly appreciated.

Ken

 

To whom it may concern,

The ##### was founded in 2009. We have successfully

obtained foreigners their police clearance certificate (PCC) from major cities in

China.

Mr. Ken #### contacted us for for Miss ###'s Police

Clearance Certificate at the beginning of April, but as Miss ### left China

9 years ago, she could not provide the registration form and Alien Employment

Permit. So it takes days for our employee to find the police station which has

jurisdiction over her PCC - Shishan police station (Phone number +86 512

68076167).

According to Shishan police station, there are 2 ways for them to issue PCC.

1.Miss ### brings the original/physical passport which has

Suzhou working visas and apply in person.

2.Zhuanguanyuan (Company’s employee who passed the local government

training program for foreign affairs) brings the original/physical passport apply

for Miss Chutima Chukaew.

As Miss Chutima Chukaew’s Suzhou employer is not in Business now,

Zhuanguanyuan is not available.

We hereby declare, after all the efforts that have been made, there is no way

for us to get Miss ### a PCC in China.

Regards,

 

We will be able to stamp on this fill after we receive the rest of our service fee.

 

 

 

[chayulan 1]

Hi. I went through the same thing years ago. I wasn’t able to obtain a police clearance as well. $600 for this is already too much money i wanna say you’re being scammed obtaining a police clearance in China won’t even cost you more than $50 

[Pitaya 2,576]

There were some recent postings in the China Regional Forum about difficulties obtaining Chinese Police certificates. There were some Chinese legal services mentioned that try to obtain the documents for you. It sounded expensive.  i don't call how the thread turned out, but it may be worth a look. 

 

Try using the forum Google search function to find those topics.

 

Good luck on your immigration journey.

[TBoneTX 43,045]

Country-specific thread is moved from the K-1 Process forum to the China regional forum.

[visafrompa 9]

My experience with any 'legal' services in China is that they are all scams.  No, I'm not trying to incite anyone or make wild stereotypes.  Chinese society is all about gunaxi, if the 'representative' you are paying doesn't have the local Police Chief (or a similar inside connection) on his cell phone speed dial he can't get anything more than what you can do.  

 

I've been told by my fiance that there are 'services' that can get her a visa (B2) for ¥7000-¥10000.   So yeah.

 

That letter would have zero weight.  The Consulate knows that police reports are getting harder to aquire and the field manual does state:

 

https://fam.state.gov/fam/09FAM/09FAM050404.html

 

b. (U) Police Certificate From Country of Previous Residence:   Police certificates are required from any countries of previous residence in which an applicant has lived for one year or more since attaining the age of 16.  If an applicant has presented a comprehensive police certificate fully meeting the requirements of 22 CFR 42.65(c) from the applicant’s country of principal residence, you need not require a police certificate from other places of former residence, provided the applicant presents other satisfactory evidence of good conduct.  For example, it has been held that proof of membership in or affiliation with a reputable religious organization in a religious capacity during periods of foreign residence may be accepted as such evidence.  However, if you have reason to believe that a police or criminal record which would render the alien ineligible to receive a visa might exist in the foreign country you must require the alien to obtain the police certificate.  If the police certificate is not obtainable from the local authorities, the alien must present other convincing evidence that he is not ineligible to receive a visa. (See Visa Reciprocity and Country Documents Finder for availability of police certificates for individual countries.)

 

Although its unclear from OPs post if the fiance is Chinese (Thailand is the filing country) and what link the fiance has to China (op says 'worked in China').  If they were in China for less than 1 year you don't need it:

 

9 FAM 504.4-4(A)  (U) Basic Document Requirements

(3)  (U) A copy of police certificates for any other country in which the applicant has resided for one year or more;

 

Getting a 'good boy' letter in China?  Only thing that I can think of as having any weight is maybe an employer?

 

FAM also states:

 

 

9 FAM 504.4-4(F)  (U) Unobtainable/Unreliable Documents

(CT:VISA-1;   11-18-2015)

a. (U) Unobtainable Documents:

(1)  (U) If a required document cannot be procured without causing the applicant or a family member actual hardship, other than normal delay or inconvenience, you may consider it unobtainable, and permit the applicant to submit other satisfactory evidence in lieu of such document or record, per 22 CFR 42.65(d). Use this authority sparingly.

(2)  (U) If you find that a required document is unobtainable, you must complete and sign Form FS-552, Certificate Regarding Documents Required by 22 CFR 42.65(b) Which Are Unobtainable, and attach to the Form FS-552 secondary evidence and/or a certificate from the appropriate authority, if obtainable, showing that in this particular case the missing document was never properly recorded.

b. (U) Unreliable Documents:  We recognize that some documents may be obtainable, but may also be unreliable either because of local corruption, or the ease with which such documents can be altered or counterfeited.  It is, nevertheless, a legal requirement that the applicant present supporting civil and other documents specified in the application procedures if such documents are available.  In some instances, you might detect an altered document that might trigger a revealing line of inquiry on the applicant's criminal record.  For example, if you find the presentation of a fraudulent document was an effort to conceal a line of inquiry, which might have resulted in a proper denial of the visa, submit an advisory opinion (AO). On the other hand, if you can establish that presentation of the document clearly involved misrepresentation of an independent ground of ineligibility, the application should be immediately refused under INA 212(a)(6)(C)(i) (8 U.S.C. 1182(a)(6)(C)(i)). In this latter case do not submit an AO.

c. (U) Secondary Evidence in Lieu of Supporting Document:  INA 222(b) (8 U.S.C. 1202(b)) prescribes the documentation required of applicants.  It will be rare that a document listed as available in Visa Reciprocity and Country Documents Finder is unobtainable.  If, however, you are satisfied that a document is unobtainable, you must require substitute documentation or secondary evidence.  22 CFR 42.65(d)(2) requires the consular officer to affix a signed statement describing in detail the reasons for considering the record or document unobtainable and for accepting the particular secondary evidence attached to the visa. (See 22 CFR 42.65(d).)  In these cases, the applicant must submit proof of the unavailability of the missing document; for example, a statement from the local authorities that records for the year in question were destroyed by fire, or proof of the attempts made to obtain the document.  When accepting substitute documentation or secondary evidence, complete Form FS-552, Certificate Regarding Documents Required by 22 CFR 42.65(b) Which Are Unobtainable, upon which the officer will make the statement required by 22 CFR 42.65(d)(2) and attach the Form FS-552 to the visa.

 

 

 

I find this line extremely interesting:

 It will be rare that a document listed as available in Visa Reciprocity and Country Documents Finder is unobtainable. 

 

It seems like the IO just ain't gonna care about your sob story.  Get the paper at all costs.

 

 

[Sails941 4]

Chayulan thanks for the the reply.

I'm 50% in so far, or $300. Also the true cost is about $1200 for roundtrip airfare, visas, lodging, interpreter, etc. the last time I checked. So yeah the PCC is cheap, it's just getting there that isn't.

Ken

 

 

 

 

chayulan:

Hi. I went through the same thing years ago. I wasn’t able to obtain a police clearance as well. $600 for this is already too much money i wanna say you’re being scammed obtaining a police clearance in China won’t even cost you more than $50 

[Sails941 4]

19 hours ago, Pitaya (火龙果) said:

There were some recent postings in the China Regional Forum about difficulties obtaining Chinese Police certificates. There were some Chinese legal services mentioned that try to obtain the documents for you. It sounded expensive.  i don't call how the thread turned out, but it may be worth a look. 

 

Try using the forum Google search function to find those topics.

 

Good luck on your immigration journey.

Pitaya,

That's very helpful. Thank you!

Ken

[Sails941 4]

6 hours ago, visafrompa said:

My experience with any 'legal' services in China is that they are all scams.  No, I'm not trying to incite anyone or make wild stereotypes.  Chinese society is all about gunaxi, if the 'representative' you are paying doesn't have the local Police Chief (or a similar inside connection) on his cell phone speed dial he can't get anything more than what you can do.  

 

I've been told by my fiance that there are 'services' that can get her a visa (B2) for ¥7000-¥10000.   So yeah.

 

That letter would have zero weight.  The Consulate knows that police reports are getting harder to aquire and the field manual does state:

 

 

Although its unclear from OPs post if the fiance is Chinese (Thailand is the filing country) and what link the fiance has to China (op says 'worked in China').  If they were in China for less than 1 year you don't need it:

 

It seems like the IO just ain't gonna care about your sob story.  Get the paper at all costs.

 

Thanks for the informative reply Visafrompa,

 

I appreciate the link you provided where it notes the statement of "unobtainable" should come from a Chinese authority. This proves how invaluable the letter I'm being sold is. I guess I'm looking at traveling to China! Can you recommend any interpreters in Suzhou?

 

Sigh,

Ken

 

 

[visafrompa 9]

13 hours ago, Sails941 said:

Thanks for the informative reply Visafrompa,

 

I appreciate the link you provided where it notes the statement of "unobtainable" should come from a Chinese authority. This proves how invaluable the letter I'm being sold is. I guess I'm looking at traveling to China! Can you recommend any interpreters in Suzhou?

 

Sigh,

Ken

 

 

Dude you're right outside of Shanghai... finding an interpreter will be as easy as standing on the corner and yelling 'I need to hire an interpreter'.

 

Next step would be pick a Uni, email the English teacher and ask them to set you up.  Probably the cheapest way to go.  A student would do it just to talk to a foreigner about real life stuff.  But I wouldn't pay more than ¥100/day for a student.  Wechat video interview, have them meet you at the train station.

 

I dated I girl in Jinhua for a while.  You will have no problem finding someone to help.  That entire area is lousy with foreigners.  Huzhou is nice.  The lake is overrated, nice, but not great.

 

If you can wait till mid-September the ticket prices will fall to less than $600.  Right now is tourist season so all tickets are $1000+  Use google flights to map out a cheap ticket.   I leave for Shenyang on Sunday to see my fiance and paid $1250 for a United/ANA flight to Shenyang.  In May the ticket was under $700

 

Don't forget you still need your 'no police report' letter notarized/translated.  

 

Edited July 3, 2019 by visafrompa