Dual Citizen Hoops?

[ohman 5]

I want to first thank everyone for their help in my last thread. We scheduled a trip for the interview based on info gathered here and it has been very helpful.

 

My wife was approved at her interview. Amazing experience at the Tustin field office by the way, a very professional, organized and pleasant staff all around. 

 

After she takes the oath and gets her US passport, do we have to do anything at that point? I tried to search a sticky for this but I came up empty. Is she just simply a dual citizen once she has both passports? Or do we need to take some steps? I assume she will use the US passport when travelling to the US (or anywhere else), and the Thai passport when she arrives home to Thailand. 

 

Thanks you!

 

[little immigrant 801]

Really double check if your wife keeps her Thai citizenship. A quick Google search brought me mixed results and I'm not knowledgeable enough. I know I lost my German citizenship at oath. 

 

She should also update her status with the social security office. Not sure if your DMV requires an update too. 

 

Congratulations on your wife's approval. 

[Jojo92122 1,924]

Once your wife becomes a US citizen, she will automatically lose her Thai citizenship.  Thailand only allows dual citizenship for minors.  Thailand does not allow for dual citizenship otherwise.  Only your death or a divorce would allow your wife to regain Thai citizenship.

 

Your wife will use her US passport to enter Thailand.  Using her Thai passport would be making a false claim of Thai citizenship to Thai authority.  

Edited June 30, 2018 by Jojo92122

[Jojo92122 1,924]

https://flagtheory.com/dual-citizenship/

 

http://nomadcapitalist.com/2014/04/25/countries-allow-dual-citizenship/

[ohman 5]

So if we go to Thailand she would have to do visa runs? Wow. Shouldn't the documentation state somewhere during the process the Thai citizenship will disappear? This is another bites the dust thread. Wow I am surprised this hasn't come up at all in any of our hours of research. 

[Jojo92122 1,924]

15 minutes ago, ohman said:

So if we go to Thailand she would have to do visa runs? Wow. Shouldn't the documentation state somewhere during the process the Thai citizenship will disappear? This is another bites the dust thread. Wow I am surprised this hasn't come up at all in any of our hours of research. 

Yes, as a non-Thai citizen, your wife would need to do visa runs like any other US citizen.  

 

Why should US naturalization paperwork have warnings about losing Thai citizenship?  Imagine how long the US naturalization instructions would be if it had to advise on all the current and ever changing laws on dual citizenship around the world.  There are over 180 countries who change their laws all the time.  Imagine updating the N-400 instructions with that.

 

There are plenty of examples of this on VJ: Thai citizens and their spouses discussing dual citizenship and not naturalizing so they can retain ownership of land in Thailand.  It took me a single Google search to find Thailand's laws on dual citizenship. 

The problem is that the average American thinks only about US laws when it comes to US naturalization.  He unknowingly presumes that US laws on naturalization and dual citizenship are the only relevant laws.  He fails to consider the laws of the home country or falsely believes the laws are the same as the US.

 

The rule against dual citizenship also applies to lots of other countries like Japan.   Whenever someone considers becoming a US citizen, that person needs to consider the citizenship laws of their home country.  

Edited June 30, 2018 by Jojo92122

[ohman 5]

2 minutes ago, Jojo92122 said:

Yes, as a non-Thai citizen, your wife would need to do visa runs like any other US citizen.  

 

Why should US naturalization paperwork have warnings about losing Thai citizenship?  Imagine how long the US naturalization instructions would be if it had to advise on all the current and ever changing laws on dual citizenship around the world.  There are over 180 countries who change their laws all the time.  Imagine updating the N-400 instructions with that.

 

There are plenty of examples of this on VJ: Thai citizens and their spouses discussing dual citizenship and not naturalizing so they can retain ownership of land in Thailand.  It took me a single Google search to find Thailand's laws on dual citizenship. 

The problem is that the average American thinks only about US laws when it comes to US naturalization.  He unknowingly presumes that US laws on naturalization and dual citizenship are the only relevant laws.  He fails to consider the laws of the home country.  

 

The rule against dual citizenship also applies to lots of other countries like Japan.  

I am of the opposite mind, and not sure why they would not warn about that. It would take a single line of text. Plus, it would be posted everywhere, if a Thai national could only return to Thailand for 30 days after getting a us passport probably nobody would even do it... it certainly would be discussed everywhere not to do it. 

 

I already think it is wrong. Although not official information, this thread indicates otherwise. There is one poster in there who really knows his stuff on Thai laws and immigration, so i trust the information as long as it is not outdated.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883404-is-dual-citizenship-in-thailand-allowed/

 

 

[Jojo92122 1,924]

Just now, ohman said:

I am of the opposite mind, and not sure why they would not warn about that. It would take a single line of text. Plus, it would be posted everywhere, if a Thai national could only return to Thailand for 30 days after getting a us passport probably nobody would even do it... it certainly would be discussed everywhere not to do it. 

 

I already think it is wrong. Although not official information, this thread indicates otherwise. There is one poster in there who really knows his stuff on Thai laws and immigration, so i trust the information as long as it is not outdated.

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883404-is-dual-citizenship-in-thailand-allowed/

 

 

It's not the US Government's job to advise naturalization applicants on the laws of their home countries.  

 

This concern about dual citizenship is everywhere, you may not have considered to look for it.  You may never have considered Thai laws on dual citizenship.  

 

Up to you to consider what information you want to go with.  

 

Best of luck.

[ohman 5]

Just now, Jojo92122 said:

It's not the US Government's job to advise naturalization applicants on the laws of their home countries.  

 

This concern about dual citizenship is everywhere, you may not have considered to look for it.  You may never have considered Thai laws on dual citizenship.  

 

Up to you to consider what information you want to go with.  

 

Best of luck.

THat issue of whether or not the US should inform aside, I think pragmatically Thai people cana dn do in fact carry two passports. 

 

My guess on what is happening here is some actual document says one thing, and in practice in Thailand they do another... which happens a lot. 

 

I don't think it is up to me to consider what info to go with, we need to know what is actually happening to people. 

[Jojo92122 1,924]

2 minutes ago, ohman said:

THat issue of whether or not the US should inform aside, I think pragmatically Thai people cana dn do in fact carry two passports. 

 

My guess on what is happening here is some actual document says one thing, and in practice in Thailand they do another... which happens a lot. 

 

I don't think it is up to me to consider what info to go with, we need to know what is actually happening to people. 

Many Thai hide the fact that they have acquired another citizenship.  It's so common that many border officials probably ignore the law. 

Many people are comfortable with using their old passports because they can get away with it.

[SusieQQQ 11,588]

Anyone acquiring US citizenship should check with their home country equivalent of the department of state what applies to them. For example, for my country, you can keep citizenship but you first have to apply to do so, otherwise you lose it automatically. 

It’s impractical to suggest the US should be advising everyone on what every other country should do, and easy enough for ex residents of a country to figure out where to get the info from. Especially as the US seems kind of fuzzy  on dual citizenship - they don’t forbid it, but the oath does require you to renounce allegiance and fidelity to previous countries, etc.

 

 

[ohman 5]

Well, for anyone browsing this in the future, the problem with checking the home country is it says you cant have dual citizenship, as other have noted. In actuality is seems you can, or at least you can carry two passports as a thai national. 

[Jorge V 195]

2 hours ago, ohman said:

Well, for anyone browsing this in the future, the problem with checking the home country is it says you cant have dual citizenship, as other have noted. In actuality is seems you can, or at least you can carry two passports as a thai national. 

Hmm, are you sure? I'm no expert in Thai citizenship law but everything I find on the internet says that Thailand does not allow dual citizenship for adults. Obviously your wife can hide her US citizenship from the Thai authorities and thus carry two passports, but that'll likely land her in a world of trouble eventually.

 

As far as the US not warning you, they don't because they're not the ones who created or enforce this rule. While the US does not recognize a second nationality, they also won't make you give it up. Thailand, on the other hand, will take away your citizenship if they find out that you've taken on another.

 

Other countries, such as Mexico, operate similarly to the US. You can take up another nationality without giving up your Mexican citizenship, but to Mexico you'll always be a Mexican citizen only and they'll completely ignore your US citizenship. If you're a dual US/Mexican national, then the US considers you a US citizen only, Mexico considers you a Mexican citizen only, and every other country considers you both.

Edited July 1, 2018 by Jorge V

[Redheadguy03 505]

I guess your wife needs to weigh the options I'd consider the possibility of  living in Thailand (if That was something you had considered) versus living in the United States. I know for some foreigners the passport for their home country is very important to them. 

 

Good luck! 

[ohman 5]

17 hours ago, Jorge V said:

Hmm, are you sure? I'm no expert in Thai citizenship law but everything I find on the internet says that Thailand does not allow dual citizenship for adults. Obviously your wife can hide her US citizenship from the Thai authorities and thus carry two passports, but that'll likely land her in a world of trouble eventually.

 

As far as the US not warning you, they don't because they're not the ones who created or enforce this rule. While the US does not recognize a second nationality, they also won't make you give it up. Thailand, on the other hand, will take away your citizenship if they find out that you've taken on another.

 

Other countries, such as Mexico, operate similarly to the US. You can take up another nationality without giving up your Mexican citizenship, but to Mexico you'll always be a Mexican citizen only and they'll completely ignore your US citizenship. If you're a dual US/Mexican national, then the US considers you a US citizen only, Mexico considers you a Mexican citizen only, and every other country considers you both.

I got in touch with an actual expert in Thai immigration and visas. His response was there is a lot of misinformation out there, and that in actuality the natuonality act does not explicitly forbid dual citizenship or approve of it. To me, effectively anyway, it sounds a lot like the usa. When you become a us citizen you essentially renounce all other countries it would seem, according to the oath verbiage. Yet, people have dual citizenship all over the place. The "data" seems to back it up too, I think there would be a lot more warnings in visa forums warning others they will have to give up  thai citizenship. 

Edited July 1, 2018 by ohman