Medical Cannabis Users In Ohio Learn They’re Ineligible To Own Firearms

[Dashinka 25,854]

35 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

i mean, just about anything is addictive. medical marijuana use is monitored by a doctor anyway.

Don’t doctors monitor opioid use as painkillers as well?

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

Mainly used by College aged males to buy legally at less than normal retail prices.

maybe in colorado. i'm talking ohio.

[smilesammich 10,727]

1 minute ago, Bill & Katya said:

Don’t doctors monitor opioid use as painkillers as well?

opioids and marijuana are two very very different substances - with highly different outcomes. opioids have their place, people need relief from pain in the multitude of medical settings that only opioids can relieve, however :

 

Quote

While much of the research that looks at how opiates affect the brain considers what can happen in the mid to long-term, there are risks that opiates can change your brain even in just a few weeks.

 

Research and studies have shown that even after just a month of using morphine people had changes in their brains. MRIs showed that patients who took morphine had a reduction in their gray matter volume throughout the study. These reductions were focused on the parts of the brain responsible for the regulation of cravings, pain, and emotions. Also, there were increases in gray matter related to learning and memory, which leads researchers to believe that this has something to do with how opiates affect learning long-term behavior patterns, even after the pleasurable effects of using opiates have subsided.

Other ways how opiates affect the brain aside from pleasure and reward systems include slowing the central nervous system which leads to depressed respiration. This is why people on opiates are at a high likelihood of an overdose. When this happens, their breathing slows down significantly, and in some cases, it may stop completely.

There are so many ways how opiates affect the brain, some of which can take months or even years to reverse. Opiates aren’t just about getting a quick high. They’re drugs that impact certain brain receptors in just the right way to make them highly addictive, while at the same time carrying dangerous side effects, making them incredibly dangerous on multiple levels.

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/opiate-addiction/how-opiates-affect-brain/#gref

 

this is the problem with lumping 'drugs' together. their functions simply aren't the same. so yeah, of course doctors monitor painkiller use but in my opinion - not nearly enough. treating marijuana as a more dangerous drug that opiates is absolutely silly. someone who smokes pot legally in ohio can't own a gun? why? for what reason? what scientific evidence is behind this rule?

[-Trinity- 513]

3 hours ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

I don't think it is addictive 

It certainly is addictive...

But you can't overdose like opioids.

 

But I think it is going to cause a lot of problems in the future among youth. Being high all the time does affect your brain and capabilities.

Not to mention the risk for schizophrenia...

[bcking 3,157]

2 hours ago, smilesammich said:

opioids and marijuana are two very very different substances - with highly different outcomes. opioids have their place, people need relief from pain in the multitude of medical settings that only opioids can relieve, however :

 

https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/opiate-addiction/how-opiates-affect-brain/#gref

 

this is the problem with lumping 'drugs' together. their functions simply aren't the same. so yeah, of course doctors monitor painkiller use but in my opinion - not nearly enough. treating marijuana as a more dangerous drug that opiates is absolutely silly. someone who smokes pot legally in ohio can't own a gun? why? for what reason? what scientific evidence is behind this rule?

Most likely both opioids and marijuana have their place. Admittedly the research on marijuana and its uses have been stiffled in the past, so you are arguing between something that has been studied extensively, to something that has been much more limited (though it's growing...no pun intended).

 

Marijuana absolutely also acts on receptors in the brain (Aptly named "Canabinoid receptors"). Users don't tend to exhibit quite the same intensity of addictive symptoms (both psychological and chemical), but that doesn't mean that marijuana doesn't have both. Marijuana is certainly addictive from the "psychological" standpoint (thinking about it daily, wanting more daily etc...). Withdrawal symptoms are also reported, though I don't believe they are nearly as severe as Opioid (and even Opioids aren't life threatening, alcohol can be). Marijuana also has long term consequences as well. Last time I reviewed the literature (and I admit this isnt' outside of my scope of practice so it was a couple of years ago), the risk of subsequent psychiatric illness in teens who use marijuana seems to be consistent and reproducible. 

 

The biggest "drug" for me that is treated completely inappropriately is alcohol. Alcohol is addictive, deadly, creates behaviors that are far more dangerous to your peers (Marijuana's receptors typically produce a "blunted" response, you aren't typically interested in high risk behavior. Opioids as well are sedatives) and withdrawal from alcohol can kill you. Our society is far more lax about alcohol than we should be, because we have some naive notion that as long as we are "responsible" it is okay. That won't change anytime soon (or ever).

 

2 hours ago, Bill & Katya said:

Don’t doctors monitor opioid use as painkillers as well?

It varies by state to state in terms of how strictly you monitor opioid use. New York State created a registry program a few years back and it is a requirement that every time you prescribe an opioid you must check the registry, ensure that the patient isn't being prescribed more than is appropriate, and document that you've done so. No matter where a patient goes in the state, all opioid prescriptions are entered into that registry.

 

Of course because it is a state law it is limited somewhat due to the "open borders" between states. In Manhattan everyone knew that a patient would just need to go over to New Jersey and what they did there wouldn't show up in our registry.

 

I don't know that much about the medical marijuana monitoring programs because they have just never come up for me. I remember in residency having some patients on it (children with cancer mostly), but from what I recall they just got a set shipment every so often. Marijuana isn't something that you can just walk into an ER and say "I need a prescription for marijuana please" like you can with opioids. The problem with opioids without a registry system is trying to tease out who is genuine, and who is "drug shopping".

Edited December 8, 2017 by bcking

[Boiler 47,470]

14 minutes ago, bcking said:

Most likely both opioids and marijuana have their place. Admittedly the research on marijuana and its uses have been stiffled in the past, so you are arguing between something that has been studied extensively, to something that has been much more limited (though it's growing...no pun intended).

 

Marijuana absolutely also acts on receptors in the brain (Aptly named "Canabinoid receptors"). Users don't tend to exhibit quite the same intensity of addictive symptoms (both psychological and chemical), but that doesn't mean that marijuana doesn't have both. Marijuana is certainly addictive from the "psychological" standpoint (thinking about it daily, wanting more daily etc...). Withdrawal symptoms are also reported, though I don't believe they are nearly as severe as Opioid (and even Opioids aren't life threatening, alcohol can be). Marijuana also has long term consequences as well. Last time I reviewed the literature (and I admit this isnt' outside of my scope of practice so it was a couple of years ago), the risk of subsequent psychiatric illness in teens who use marijuana seems to be consistent and reproducible. 

 

The biggest "drug" for me that is treated completely inappropriately is alcohol. Alcohol is addictive, deadly, creates behaviors that are far more dangerous to your peers (Marijuana's receptors typically produce a "blunted" response, you aren't typically interested in high risk behavior. Opioids as well are sedatives) and withdrawal from alcohol can kill you. Our society is far more lax about alcohol than we should be, because we have some naive notion that as long as we are "responsible" it is okay. That won't change anytime soon (or ever).

 

It varies by state to state in terms of how strictly you monitor opioid use. New York State created a registry program a few years back and it is a requirement that every time you prescribe an opioid you must check the registry, ensure that the patient isn't being prescribed more than is appropriate, and document that you've done so. No matter where a patient goes in the state, all opioid prescriptions are entered into that registry.

 

Of course because it is a state law it is limited somewhat due to the "open borders" between states. In Manhattan everyone knew that a patient would just need to go over to New Jersey and what they did there wouldn't show up in our registry.

 

I don't know that much about the medical marijuana monitoring programs because they have just never come up for me. I remember in residency having some patients on it (children with cancer mostly), but from what I recall they just got a set shipment every so often. Marijuana isn't something that you can just walk into an ER and say "I need a prescription for marijuana please" like you can with opioids. The problem with opioids without a registry system is trying to tease out who is genuine, and who is "drug shopping".

After reading that I need a beer.

 

Anybody want to join me?

[smilesammich 10,727]

5 minutes ago, bcking said:

Most likely both opioids and marijuana have their place. Admittedly the research on marijuana and its uses have been stiffled in the past, so you are arguing between something that has been studied extensively, to something that has been much more limited (though it's growing...no pun intended).

 

Marijuana absolutely also acts on receptors in the brain (Aptly named "Canabinoid receptors"). Users don't tend to exhibit quite the same intensity of addictive symptoms (both psychological and chemical), but that doesn't mean that marijuana doesn't have both. Marijuana is certainly addictive from the "psychological" standpoint (thinking about it daily, wanting more daily etc...). Withdrawal symptoms are also reported, though I don't believe they are nearly as severe as Opioid (and even Opioids aren't life threatening, alcohol can be). Marijuana also has long term consequences as well. Last time I reviewed the literature (and I admit this isnt' outside of my scope of practice so it was a couple of years ago), the risk of subsequent psychiatric illness in teens who use marijuana seems to be consistent and reproducible. 

 

The biggest "drug" for me that is treated completely inappropriately is alcohol. Alcohol is addictive, deadly, creates behaviors that are far more dangerous to your peers (Marijuana's receptors typically produce a "blunted" response, you aren't typically interested in high risk behavior. Opioids as well are sedatives) and withdrawal from alcohol can kill you. Our society is far more lax about alcohol than we should be, because we have some naive notion that as long as we are "responsible" it is okay. That won't change anytime soon (or ever).

 

of course marijuana acts on receptors in the brain, never said they didn't. and users certainly don't exhibit 'quite the same intensity' of addictive symptoms..i've yet to know a person who has prostituted themselves out for a joint - for example. there's a huge difference between psychological addiction and chemical dependency. and the severity of withdrawal is completely different. like the difference between hoisting up bootstraps and pushing through without and being completely incapacitated. further, to get away from opioids - an alcoholic can die withdrawing from alcohol - this has never been reported with marijuana use. and no one has ever overdosed on marijuana either. as far as psychiatric illness in teens go, i'm pretty sure that what i read suggested that marijuana use hastened the onset of these illnesses not caused them. anyway, the current info also states that the use of marijuana in teens is unchanged in states that allow it. sort of goes against the fear that legal marijuana for adults would cause usage in teens to skyrocket. 

my feelings are that marijuana should be considered on the same tier with alcohol - not a schedule one. that is absurd beyond belief.

i'm not a doctor, but i have a lifetime of experience with addicts in my family and with friends. i've seen so many people's lives ruined from alcohol. and similarly from opiates. the only way i've seen marijuana ruin lives is through the court system. 

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, Boiler said:

After reading that I need a beer.

 

Anybody want to join me?

Only one. 

[bcking 3,157]

7 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

of course marijuana acts on receptors in the brain, never said they didn't. and users certainly don't exhibit 'quite the same intensity' of addictive symptoms..i've yet to know a person who has prostituted themselves out for a joint - for example. there's a huge difference between psychological addiction and chemical dependency. and the severity of withdrawal is completely different. like the difference between hoisting up bootstraps and pushing through without and being completely incapacitated. further, to get away from opioids - an alcoholic can die withdrawing from alcohol - this has never been reported with marijuana use. and no one has ever overdosed on marijuana either. as far as psychiatric illness in teens go, i'm pretty sure that what i read suggested that marijuana use hastened the onset of these illnesses not caused them. anyway, the current info also states that the use of marijuana in teens is unchanged in states that allow it. sort of goes against the fear that legal marijuana for adults would cause usage in teens to skyrocket. 

my feelings are that marijuana should be considered on the same tier with alcohol - not a schedule one. that is absurd beyond belief.

i'm not a doctor, but i have a lifetime of experience with addicts in my family and with friends. i've seen so many people's lives ruined from alcohol. and similarly from opiates. the only way i've seen marijuana ruin lives is through the court system. 

1. Yes there is, and marijuana has been shown to exhibit both, just like opioids. Severity is indeed different, but they still both have chemical and psychological dependency, as does alcohol. It is incredibly difficult to die from opioid withdrawal (and most cases are actually from medically assisted opioid withdrawal using methadone, and then subsequent overdose of methadone). I've already agreed that alcohol is the true "odd man out" here in terms of what it does, and how we accept it.

2. Marijuana use in teenagers increases the incidence of psychiatric illness later in life (particularly schizophrenia). Of course there hasn't been a RCT (and there never will be), but both retrospective and prospective observation studies (the best level of evidence we can have) suggests that. There may be confounding factors, but we are limited in how we can study it because no one would ever find it ethical to randomize teenagers to smoking or not smoking marijuana.

3. Agreed that it shouldn't be schedule one. Or if it is, then absolutely alcohol should be right up there with it. We should be consistent with how we treat similarly dangerous drugs regardless of social conventions.

 

I try not to let personal experiences influence how I discuss medical disorders, drug abuse, or pretty much anything in healthcare. I have my own anecdotal experiences, just like everyone else does. It's best to stick to the literature.

Edited December 8, 2017 by bcking

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

3 minutes ago, smilesammich said:

of course marijuana acts on receptors in the brain, never said they didn't. and users certainly don't exhibit 'quite the same intensity' of addictive symptoms..i've yet to know a person who has prostituted themselves out for a joint - for example. there's a huge difference between psychological addiction and chemical dependency. and the severity of withdrawal is completely different. like the difference between hoisting up bootstraps and pushing through without and being completely incapacitated. further, to get away from opioids - an alcoholic can die withdrawing from alcohol - this has never been reported with marijuana use. and no one has ever overdosed on marijuana either. as far as psychiatric illness in teens go, i'm pretty sure that what i read suggested that marijuana use hastened the onset of these illnesses not caused them. anyway, the current info also states that the use of marijuana in teens is unchanged in states that allow it. sort of goes against the fear that legal marijuana for adults would cause usage in teens to skyrocket. 

my feelings are that marijuana should be considered on the same tier with alcohol - not a schedule one. that is absurd beyond belief.

i'm not a doctor, but i have a lifetime of experience with addicts in my family and with friends. i've seen so many people's lives ruined from alcohol. and similarly from opiates. the only way i've seen marijuana ruin lives is through the court system. 

Well there you go. Perfect break down without all the Hyperbole. You nailed it. Much like you I have never known weed to ruin a persons life unless they get caught with it.

 

The only bad thing I will say, is that when used heavily it can make you unmotivated in regards to going to class etc at a young age. Also as you pointed out on teens with psychiatric disorders, the tendency may have been there all along

 

You may hang out in the Middle of the road lounge today. Good post 

[bcking 3,157]

8 minutes ago, Boiler said:

After reading that I need a beer.

 

Anybody want to join me?

How often do you think about needing that beer? Do you think about it when you wake up in the morning?

[Boiler 47,470]

2 minutes ago, bcking said:

How often do you think about needing that beer? Do you think about it when you wake up in the morning?

Nope

 

Took one of your posts.

[bcking 3,157]

Just now, Boiler said:

Nope

 

Took one of your posts.

Alright we can let it pass. Just make sure to seek help if you start thinking about it more regularly, or find you need one to get yourself going in the morning. We are all here for you.

[Boiler 47,470]

Just now, bcking said:

Alright we can let it pass. Just make sure to seek help if you start thinking about it more regularly, or find you need one to get yourself going in the morning. We are all here for you.

You are right, perhaps I should lay off reading your posts.

 

New Years resolution maybe.

10 minutes ago, Nature Boy Flair said:

Only one. 

Your place or mine.

 

My NBF pajamas are back ordered btw.

[The Nature Boy 7,659]

1 minute ago, Boiler said:

You are right, perhaps I should lay off reading your posts.

 

New Years resolution maybe.

Just curious. You read one all the way from start to finish ?