Working in my business before ability to legally work...is this possible?

[C and E 36]

Hello, I have a I-129F in progess for a K1 visa for my fiance. We plan to start a business together doing teaching. I would like to register the business now (purchase business license, get bank account set up, etc). I will do this in my name. We plan to marry within a month of our arrival in the US.

 

Coming in on a K1 visa, I know there is a three month period where my fiance will not be able to legally work. But, I would like for my fiance to begin right away helping in classes and I would like to be able to put my fiance's name and bio on the website, etc. I would not be making any payments, and everything would still be in my name.

 

Is this legal? Would my fiance be able to be considered a "volunteer"? Is there any kind of language I would need to avoid, or anything to look out for? I would hate to have an issue come along where my fiance's ability to stay would be at risk...

 

 

[Coco8 1,039]

31 minutes ago, C and E said:

But, I would like for my fiance to begin right away helping in classes and I would like to be able to put my fiance's name and bio on the website, etc.

Not paying him does not make it less work. He would be teaching is he is helping in classes. He could assist you in preparing the classes outside of the classroom (it would still be a grey area and many might say it is work, but at least is not as evident as actually teaching). 

 

If you want to put him on the website you can add the note: Starting in Spring 2018 (or something like that) to make clear he is available at that moment. Otherwise, in a background check that could easily come up and get you in trouble.

 

Volunteer in this case is not volunteer. He is working really even if unpaid because if he were not available you would be hiring someone else. It is not like he is picking trash from the street or volunteering in a soup kitchen. Even in those cases sometimes they require an EAD.

 

Edited August 4, 2017 by Coco8

[C and E 36]

4 minutes ago, Coco8 said:

 

 

 

Thanks for the information you provided and the advice. But I have done the same kind of job in the same kind of setting as a regular volunteer for over a year -- so I don't necessarily "agree" with the logic that someone else would be hired -- although a check by immigration if what I would fear. Do you know a good resource to look further into this? There are a few additional "what ifs" I am considering but it is all too much detail for VJ. 
 

[June2017UK 430]

In the eyes of the authorities, I believe  working without being paid would be seen as misrespresenting oneself.

(Without getting into a political conversation, maybe this is why Trump couldn't do the POTUS job for zero remuneration?)

It's not worth the murky waters for the sakes of waiting a couple of months to add your F to the new business, imo

 

[Scandi 3,975]

It would be considered working and it would be illegal. If being able to work instantly after POE you should have chosen the CR-1 visa, not the K-1. Planning and research is the key.

[C and E 36]

1 minute ago, Scandi said:

It would be considered working and it would be illegal. If being able to work instantly after POE you should have chosen the CR-1 visa, not the K-1. Planning and research is the key.

 

That's why I am doing the planning now...business isn't the priority (it will be a side thing and we will both have other jobs) but rather being together, so it sounds like we will just have to wait...as nothing is worth putting being together at risk after this long process! Thanks for the replies.

[C and E 36]

What is difficult for the planning aspect is determining when then my fiance could begin. Looked into the K1 work permit application process but what is the point of applying for a work permit as a K1 visa holder if it takes 45 days to process and expires at the time you apply for the Green Card and are no longer considered a K1 visa holder? Seems nonsensical to begin with but especially for a side gig hobby business which wouldn't really bring in much cash as it costs almost as much as the 1-129f fee.

As a work permit can be applied for directly following the marriage along with AOS -- seems the best options is to wait the 90 days for the permit to be received -- is that right? Are there typically delays here as in the NOA1-NOA2 delays typically experienced? 

 

As for particulars, do you guys think it would be wise to contact the local immigration office to pose these questions? I really don't want to do anything wrong but as this is creative work there's a lot of things we could do that could be interpreted as "working" which are gray areas, especially if I go forward with getting the business set up during the waiting period. 

[June2017UK 430]

7 minutes ago, C and E said:

As for particulars, do you guys think it would be wise to contact the local immigration office to pose these questions? I really don't want to do anything wrong but as this is creative work there's a lot of things we could do that could be interpreted as "working" which are gray areas, especially if I go forward with getting the business set up during the waiting period. 

I think it would only be a moot point if you're setting up the new venture as a not-for-profit organisation / obtaining charity status. But as you mention 'business', then they presume the intention will be a profit-making one. 

[Coco8 1,039]

20 minutes ago, C and E said:

Looked into the K1 work permit application process but what is the point of applying for a work permit as a K1 visa holder if it takes 45 days to process and expires at the time you apply for the Green Card and are no longer considered a K1 visa holder?

There is no K1 work permit if this kind.

 

21 minutes ago, C and E said:

As a work permit can be applied for directly following the marriage along with AOS -- seems the best options is to wait the 90 days for the permit to be received -- is that right?

The work authorization is applied along with AOS. It is an EAD, basically a card that will prove he is authorized to work. Even though you are correct that it should take 90 days, now it has been taking around 120 days, so closer to 4 months. 

 

22 minutes ago, C and E said:

As for particulars, do you guys think it would be wise to contact the local immigration office to pose these questions? I really don't want to do anything wrong but as this is creative work there's a lot of things we could do that could be interpreted as "working" which are gray areas, especially if I go forward with getting the business set up during the waiting period. 

People answering phones usually have no clue because the only thing they do is answer phones. They are not really officers deciding on cases. To get to an officer I think you need like a receipt number. Maybe you can get a infopass appointment to ask someone directly but I don't know if there you get to talk to an officer. 

 

You will find plenty of threads on the matter on VJ and there is a lot of disagreement. If all you are doing is planning a business, that should be fine because even in visitor visa you can have a meeting to have an investment or plan a future business. The issue is that you wanted him to be in class and teach class, or something of the sort. That is not possible.

 

Also, you should not compare what you can do to what he can or cannot do. You are a US citizen. Like this:

 

1 hour ago, C and E said:

But I have done the same kind of job in the same kind of setting as a regular volunteer for over a year -- so I don't necessarily "agree" with the logic that someone else would be hired.
 

 

The "logic" for US citizen is not the same "logic" as for someone who is not a US citizen nor a permanent resident. Even what a US citizen an a permanent resident can and cannot do are different. Until he gets the EAD he will be in limbo. 

 

Instead of focusing on the business you need to also focus on other more important things, like how can he get a drivers license in your state (not always easy with a K1 and there is a short time frame to do it), how to get him a bank account or add him to your bank account, collecting proof of bona fide marriage, etc. If you don't get that in order you will get an RFE during AOS and you could be looking at 6 months for the EAD.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[C and E 36]

7 minutes ago, June2017UK said:

I think it would only be a moot point if you're setting up the new venture as a not-for-profit organisation / obtaining charity status. But as you mention 'business', then they presume the intention will be a profit-making one. 

1

Well nonprofits are also businesses, and knowing a lot about nonprofits through previous experience I know it wouldn't be the right option for what I want to do, but the profit I would be making would be pretty marginal. A lot of people run these kind of "businesses" under the table without really thinking about it but publicly advertise and it is unheard of that the authorities come after them. Kind of like people who do tutoring or give music lessons on the side, or rent a space and teach sport workshops, etc.

 

I'm curious in the VJ community if there hasn't been anyone who has taught or tutored during the waiting period? Foreign languages, music, sports etc?

 

I don't want to take any risks, but at the same time, as this is our common passion, it seems sad to make my fiance stay home during this period. Could my fiance be present? Is there some resource which presents a legal definition? 

 

Previously I volunteered as a teacher in a similar profit-making business for over a year...later I was also paid for it...but I started volunteering. I would get an exchange -- discount on other classes or something like that. I also worked in another similar setting (for profit teaching business) which regularly took unpaid volunteers, and openly recruited them online without issue. Of course none of the volunteers in these situations were in the tricky situation of immigrants in process married to the legal business owner. 

[C and E 36]

2 minutes ago, Coco8 said:

There is no K1 work permit if this kind.

 

 

 

Here's something I found about the work permit I mentioned: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/fiance-marriage-visa-book/chapter5-22.html

Perhaps it no longer exists? In any case it doesn't help. 

 

Curiously why is it important to get a drivers license as soon as possible and why do you mention the short time frame? Is it not possible to do later on? My fiance doesn't know how to drive and I wasn't considering that a priority. 

Gotcha on the citizen versus immigrant logic, and thanks for the info about 4 months out. I'd rather plan safely than sorry. 

Is it not possible to go to a local office and speak with an immigration officer in person with questions when going through AOS?

[Scandi 3,975]

There are even people who babysit for friends and family for free and it's still considered working illegally. You don't seem to want to listen to what people are telling you but instead try to find ways around the law, so I won't be responding to you anymore now as it has no effect anyway. 

[C and E 36]

Just now, Scandi said:

There are even people who babysit for friends and family for free and it's still considered working illegally. You don't seem to want to listen to what people are telling you but instead try to find ways around the law, so I won't be responding to you anymore now as it has no effect anyway. 

 

I am sorry, I really didn't mean to be rude. I am grateful for the responses and am indeed listening. If I didn't suspect there might be an issue, I wouldn't be asking this question. 

 

I am surprised to hear that looking after friends and family's children for free is considered working illegally. I really didn't know that. I am really sorry but it appears I am just not informed which is why I am trying to inform myself.

 

Is there a resource which presents these kinds of rules and information online? You said "law", where does one find this information written? Or people's experiences? 

I really do apologize, I am learning here. 

[Coco8 1,039]

5 minutes ago, C and E said:

Curiously why is it important to get a drivers license as soon as possible and why do you mention the short time frame? Is it not possible to do later on? My fiance doesn't know how to drive and I wasn't considering that a priority. 

Then he should get a non-drivers license. It matters for several reasons (1) He can prove during AOS that he lives in the same place as you do if necessary (2) he needs an ID so that he doesn't have to use his passport everywhere (if the passport gets lost it will be an issue; trust me, I lost mine in the US and it was a pain!).

 

Usually you have to have an unexpired i-94 to get a drivers license. Though it varies by state and in some you can get it with the receipt that USCIS got your AOS application. It varies a lot so check requirements for your state and search VJ. In some you can only do it before K1 expires. It can get tricky.

 

Moreover, the time frame for the social security number can be short because it depends on the i-94 (the date given to him when he gets into the US, it might be the 90 days in which you guys have to marry). Here is the guide:

 

http://www.visajourney.com/content/ssn

 

If you don't file on time then he cannot get a SSN and he cannot be on the joint account (better to produce one for AOS) or get his own personal account. He will have to wait until he gets the EAD to get a SSN if he doesn't do it following the guide (so like 4 months!).

 

 

 

[C and E 36]

Just now, Coco8 said:

Then he should get a non-drivers license. It matters for several reasons (1) He can prove during AOS that he lives in the same place as you do if necessary (2) he needs an ID so that he doesn't have to use his passport everywhere (if the passport gets lost it will be an issue; trust me, I lost mine in the US and it was a pain!).

 

Usually you have to have an unexpired i-94 to get a drivers license. Though it varies by state and in some you can get it with the receipt that USCIS got your AOS application. It varies a lot so check requirements for your state and search VJ. In some you can only do it before K1 expires. It can get tricky.

 

Moreover, the time frame for the social security number can be short because it depends on the i-94 (the date given to him when he gets into the US, it might be the 90 days in which you guys have to marry). Here is the guide:

 

http://www.visajourney.com/content/ssn

 

If you don't file on time then he cannot get a SSN and he cannot be on the joint account (better to produce one for AOS) or get his own personal account. He will have to wait until he gets the EAD to get a SSN if he doesn't do it following the guide (so like 4 months!).

 

 

 

 

Ah OK, gotcha -- in my state we call it a State ID. Yes, will definitely get that! And thanks for the tip on the SSN process!