Does Security Elderly count for I-864 sponsor requirements?

[Florence & Jos 7]

Hi all!

 

The I-864 instructions statement under "Special Requirements" doesn't mention Social Security explicit...

 

I-864 Under Special Requirements: "Current Individual Annual Income. Enter your current, individual, earned or retirement, annual

income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total in the space provided"

 

We would add a pension together with her Social Security Earnings. Her pension alone wouldn't meet 125% of poverty level for 2 persons household. 125%= $20.300.

When we add them together she does meet that limit to be the only sponsor.

 

We are confused because we find many saying the income required here would be from taxable income.

My sponsor's (Flo, my wife.) taxable income is just her pension.

 

Anybody who knows or got an NVC checklist from this item? Please, help!

 

[Florence & Jos 7]

It's hard to find an answer on this. Maybe because it's so obvious for others. 

I found this answer on a NVC checklist from somebody showing not enough evidence of income to meet threshold.

I highlighted Social Security Benefits. So they seem okay. But to be sure, can anybody confirm they count it for threshold?

 

[JOL 19]

I am in a similar situation, so have a similar question, except my wife is beneficiary and my mother the person receiving SS retirement plus an additional pension.  We want to include my mother as a household member because 1) my income alone is <125% of federal poverty level for a household of our size, and 2) being present to assist her now that she is in her seventies is a big reason I moved back and am now trying to bring my wife and child to join us.  The Social Security Administration annually mails a statement of my mothers monthly SS retirement income for that year, so she plans to include that statement in our NVC submission because her tax return does not include that as Adjusted Gross Income (since it is not taxable.)  I presume your wife also receives such an annual statement, and certainly HOPE it satisfies the NVCs standard of documentary income evidence, but really cannot know for certain. I wish I did, so anyone and everyone who DOES know from firsthand experience is now doubly encouraged and welcome to share.

My sympathies on the process:  Getting my Norwegian visa was much easier, faster and CHEAPER than getting my wifes US visa, even though I did not speak a word of Norwegian but she has unaccented fluency in English.  We made it this far though, so hopefully that light at the end of the tunnel is not an oncoming train....

[Villanelle 4,121]

Social security counts as long as its SS benefits (retirement) and not SSI. (supplemental security income) 

[Villanelle 4,121]

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/701259/11488826/1301524322607/Aff+of+Support+re+Earned+Benefits.pdf?token=Pm1vQqW0JqhfJnQL8ixawma41xw%3D

 

page 13

 

[Florence & Jos 7]

Hey @Jol!

Thanks for supporting my question. You put in more information that applies all to my wife sponsoring for me. Thanks again!  I depend very much of her knowledge about The IRS Tax system. She also says SSI is not taxable income. I'm not sure of that yet. As I am Pretty stubborn... 1. Maybe it is not taxable in her situation. And others with higher income have to include it with their Tax Returns... 2. We are not like filing for IRS, so NVC might count it to the threshold anyway, weather it shows on Tax Transcripts or not. This is much my opinion. Why would they ask for a Social Security Earning Statement as they do and not count it? 3. It makes no sense that a reliable income like Social Security Elderly wouldn't count compared to any job earnings, while that job might end any day after presenting it as income... these days.  4. I read on many occasions Social Security Elderly would be means-tested income. Uscis refuses means-tested income to meet threshold. But I got from sources on the internet, like Forbes.com Social Security Elderly is earnings-tested income, not means-tested. So also this ends positive if... USCIS/HS doesn't count Social Security Elderly to means-tested. 

So actually I have no clear answer yet, just more questions! We discussed this and when we have all our documents ready we will send them in. We will do so trusting our reasoning from option 2 mentioned above. We have to make a decision because we also have to write a letter based on that, a letter in which we exempt from  sending in Tax Transcripts/Tax Returns over last 3 years. This because my wife has no due to file with her income over these years. We do that under Other Supporting Documents.  

 

[Florence & Jos 7]

44 minutes ago, Damara said:

Social security counts as long as its SS benefits (retirement) and not SSI. (supplemental security income) 

Hi Damara,

Thanks for your response on my question!

I believe you... Though, really, and excuse me I say so...  We cannot depend on an opinion... we can easily find many here. Can you provide a trusted, authorised source where I can find this? 

[Florence & Jos 7]

1 hour ago, Damara said:

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/701259/11488826/1301524322607/Aff+of+Support+re+Earned+Benefits.pdf?token=Pm1vQqW0JqhfJnQL8ixawma41xw%3D

 

page 13

 

Okay Damara, thanks for the PDF. And I found it on page thirteen... though I found the file was changed recently by Company INS. I found the original from USCIS and checked the SS/SSI statement there and those were exactly the same in both documents. So yes, thank you for helping me out on this. You are a guardian angel. We need those on our path to my green card. I hope @JOL reads this also. Go for it! You waited even more than we did (199 days) for NOA2. 

[JOL 19]

21 hours ago, Florence & Jos said:

Hey @Jol!

Thanks for supporting my question. You put in more information that applies all to my wife sponsoring for me. Thanks again!  I depend very much of her knowledge about The IRS Tax system. She also says SSI is not taxable income. I'm not sure of that yet. As I am Pretty stubborn...

You are quite welcome, and the short answer is "It's Complicated."  Technically and nominally, ALL SS is "Insurance," because the Social Security Act established all the various benefits as "Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance (OASDI)."  Likewise, the infamous FICA withholding stands for "Federal Insurance Contributions Act" and paycheck stubs list it distinct form other federal income tax withholding (mainly FICA is not eligible for refund in case of overpayment:  With uncommon highly undesirable exceptions, no one gets back a cent of FICA back before retirement.)  People routinely speak of "SSI," but the only thing that fits that abbreviation is "Supplemental Security Income" which is NOT insurance (as such...,) is for low-income people <65-years-old/disabled and is "semi-means tested;" every $2 of employment income above a certain (relatively small) annual amount lowers SS disability benefits by $1.  I believe that is the "earnings-tested, not means-tested" distinction Forbes et al. made, but I cannot be certain; the same rule applies to people who retire early (which the SS Administration allows as "early" as age 62, though with reduced retirement benefits.)

 

Quote

1. Maybe it is not taxable in her situation. And others with higher income have to include it with their Tax Returns... 2. We are not like filing for IRS, so NVC might count it to the threshold anyway, weather it shows on Tax Transcripts or not. This is much my opinion. Why would they ask for a Social Security Earning Statement as they do and not count it?

I believe that is because it is an EARNINGS Statement, not a BENEFIT Statement (my mother tells me the letter the SSA sends her annually actually refers to it as an "award.")  The SSA sends those out to people regularly, both to forecast their eventual retirement income, and as a record of how much they have paid in for how long:  Recall that the NVC handles an AoS for immigrants with 40 quarters (i.e. 10 years) of US income differently (I want to say they can effectively "self-sponsor," but did not check closely since my wife is not even close to qualifying for that.)  A SS Earnings Statement is an ideal way to document 40 quarters of US income.  Remember that things like the checklist the NVC sent me (and, presumably, you) with their welcome letter are written to apply to all situations, so some of what they list may not be applicable (e.g. since neither my wife nor I were previously married, the divorce records in the checklist do not exist and thus cannot be submitted.)  I got thrown by that too; I thought I needed proof of my US domicile until I read that they only wanted that for Sponsors currently outside the US, but will now include it for me AND my mother because it is needed to show we are members of the same household. 

 

3. It makes no sense that a reliable income like Social Security Elderly wouldn't count compared to any job earnings, while that job might end any day after presenting it as income... these days.

Heh, well, "reliable" and "Social Security" do not go together as well as they did a few years ago, but I am not going off on a political rant while I still have a case pending with the US Dept. of State.   I agree in principle though, and they do allow use of a Sponsors SS retirement income to meet the financial support threshold:  It must simply be verifiably documented.  

 

4. I read on many occasions Social Security Elderly would be means-tested income. Uscis refuses means-tested income to meet threshold. But I got from sources on the internet, like Forbes.com Social Security Elderly is earnings-tested income, not means-tested. So also this ends positive if... USCIS/HS doesn't count Social Security Elderly to means-tested. 

 

See above initial paragraph.

 

So actually I have no clear answer yet, just more questions! We discussed this and when we have all our documents ready we will send them in. We will do so trusting our reasoning from option 2 mentioned above. We have to make a decision because we also have to write a letter based on that, a letter in which we exempt from  sending in Tax Transcripts/Tax Returns over last 3 years. This because my wife has no due to file with her income over these years. We do that under Other Supporting Documents.  

I can tell you what my mom is doing; it will be up to 11 weeks before I can tell you whether that satisfies the NVC. She is including

 

1) Her last three tax returns,

2) IRS Form 1099 attachments the SSA sent her each year to file with those tax returns,

3) The Award letter the SSA sent her each year showing her monthly SS retirement income (annual income is just 12*monthly) and

4) An additional one-page letter she wrote explaining that Line 15 on her tax returns (which I believe is Adjusted Gross Income) does not include all her income, because her SS retirement and part of her pension are not taxable; she follows that with a table with one year per row and the first column for income, subdivided by category, and the second column for TAXABLE income, subdivided by category.

 

Note, however, that I am no farther along than you, so anyone and everyone who has actually (and successfully) COMPLETED the process in this situation is an infinitely better source of advice; I am mainly trying to make sense of it, because I feel like I have agonized over this one aspect long enough I may actually have a rudimentary grasp of the NVCs intent (or, y'know, maybe I am more confused than ever and will receive an RFE saying so in about 3 months, heaven forbid.)  Good luck either way, and I look forward to any and all battle-tested advice you can obtain so I can kibbutz.

[Florence & Jos 7]

Hey @JOL,

I thought you would get the answer Damara gave us in this thread. 

Find it all here:

http://static1.1.sqspcdn.com/static/f/701259/11488826/1301524322607/Aff+of+Support+re+Earned+Benefits.pdf?token=Pm1vQqW0JqhfJnQL8ixawma41xw%3D

on page 13. SSR counts for threshold NVC.

 

Very helpfull, happy we found this. We would have done like it would count, but it's much better to be sure.