Seattle will tax sugary soda — but not diet

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, Teddy B said:

You and I have had this juice conversation in the past. I know you do not like the sugar substitutes that are put in the diet and light juices and for good reasons. But I prefer the diet/light over the 100% juice because of the higher cals and sugar in the regular juice.

Yeah I know, the example was more for IAMX even though I added it to the reply to you  The calories don't scare me. The sugar...well...in moderation  At the end of the day water is best lol

[Teddy B 17,252]

1 minute ago, OriZ said:

Yeah I know, the example was more for IAMX even though I added it to the reply to you  The calories don't scare me. The sugar...well...in moderation  At the end of the day water is best lol

Yeah but it doesn't mix well with vodka.

[Dashinka 25,884]

25 minutes ago, OriZ said:

That is false. In fact we do check the ingredient list of pretty much everything we buy, and the 100% fruit juice we get does not have any added sugar(here is just one example - http://juicyjuice.com/products/juicy-juice-fruit-juice). While the sugar content might be similar to soda, I'll take natural fruit sugar over added sugar or corn syrup any day, plus who said you have to drink a whole bottle every day? Plus, the nutrients you get from fruit juice you cannot get from soda. Also, you can ask Teddy, I know alot about supplementation, especially with my wife's issues - we have a whole list of what we call the "arsenal". Some supplements are good to take, yes we take vitamins. HAVING SAID THAT, Supplementation form does not work as well as consuming it and never will. Consuming it directly from food will always be your best option. I've been doing my homework on this for many years and will never agree with someone saying fruit juice is the same as soda, that's just lusicrous to me. I do agree that eating fruit is better, but for those who can't afford to have much fruits or vegetables at least they can get something from juice. 

Personally I think fruits themselves are much better than either.  My wife is a fruit nut, and she now has me eating more fruit then I have in some time.  We make smoothies as well with a little plain yogurt or sour cream.  Sweet liquids whether they be soda, or juice are not good in my opinion, just drink water, or brewed tea with a little lemon and you will be satisfied!  That is except for a couple of hoppy ales on the weekend!

 

[yuna628 9,873]

I think diet drinks should be included in this tax. Often people consume more of these drinks than regular soda thinking it's healthier. It's not. Laden with chemicals, dangerous sugar substitutes, and plenty of calories. The dentist will tell you that diet drinks are just as bad if not worse for teeth.

[IAMX 3,055]

Just now, OriZ said:

That is false. In fact we do check the ingredient list of pretty much everything we buy, and the 100% fruit juice we get does not have any added sugar(here is just one example - http://juicyjuice.com/products/juicy-juice-fruit-juice). While the sugar content might be similar to soda, I'll take natural fruit sugar over added sugar or corn syrup any day, plus who said you have to drink a whole bottle every day? Plus, the nutrients you get from fruit juice you cannot get from soda. Also, you can ask Teddy, I know alot about supplementation, especially with my wife's issues - we have a whole list of what we call the "arsenal". Some supplements are good to take, yes we take vitamins. HAVING SAID THAT, Supplementation form does not work as well as consuming it and never will. Consuming it directly from food will always be your best option. I've been doing my homework on this for many years and will never agree with someone saying fruit juice is the same as soda, that's just lusicrous to me. I do agree that eating fruit is better, but for those who can't afford to have much fruits or vegetables at least they can get something from juice. 

Firstly, juice is not even remotely the same as the fruit. Most of the nutrition of fruits comes from the fruit itself.. not by stripping it of the skin, pulp, etc. (i.e. stripping the complex carbs), as is done with the vast majority of juice. For oranges, as one example, the rest of the orange provides complex carbs and protein which slow the digestive process down, providing satiation and offset to carbs ingested.

 

Secondly, supplementing the few vitamins in juice are ridiculously easy. Vitamin C is by far the easiest source to supplement, and the levels of Vitamin C one gets from fruit is generally way, way beyond what an adult needs in a day.. the rest is just excreted and not used. Chewable vitamins taken with food are no different whatsoever than the vitamins often supplemented by juices. The idea that they are healthy comes from the juice makers themselves and their marketing divisions -- obviously quite successful.

 

Thirdly, when people drink these juices they often drink them in larger quantity than they would soda. People increasingly know the drawbacks of soda. However, not enough know how unhealthy juice is, so they have this false perception that it's healthier.. it's not. It's sugary garbage.

 

- Foods that cause more hunger soon after consumption are not healthy. Juices are simple carbs absorbed into the body extremely quickly. Even worse for the high portion of Americans who are Type 2 (hyperglycemic). They inhibit peristalsis which likewise helps produce more of the hormone ghrelin from the fundus (stomach), which means soon after consumption they're hungry/thirsty again. No effect of satiety. Waste of calories.

- Foods that have such a terrible carb-to-calorie or carb-to-protein ratio are also not healthy. Juices are often around 30g to 0g protein, and 1:3 carbs to cals. This is simply unacceptable. It's not healthy at all.

 

For the others that might be reading, healthier would be:

 

- Buying the fruit

- Having water

 

This is also just as affordable as buying the juice, which tend not to be cheap. There's an overhead cost of stripping fruits to make juice (and place additives) that gets passed on to the consumer, down the supply chain.

 

This also doesn't go into the physiological and psychological effects sugar has. As I mentioned earlier, it should be classified as a psychoactive drug. From the moment sugar touches the tongue to when it exits the body, it begins a long chain of processes that cause physical and psychological addiction. The comedown effects people tend not to realize, but after having high sugar content like juices regularly, unless they're athletes/cross-country runners (will get to that part after), the body starts having phyiological and psychological addiction withdrawal symptoms: Irritability, changes in bowel movements, cravings, headaches, etc.

 

Regarding athletes and such, these are the people who are virtually unaffected by it. The great benefit of carbs is the quick availability to the muscles and organs. However, if they aren't being utilized with high amounts of physical activity, then they are simply stored. Because the liver, that deals with these carbs first, has such a small storage capacity of glucose (what it converts carbs to), it means that much of it is converted to fatty acids and distributed throughout the body. For athletes or high active people this is not an issue. Problem is, the vast majority of Americans are sedentary or low-active in strenuous physical activity. So for them, they need virtually no carbs to properly function through their day, which also means that a simple 8 oz bottle of Minute Maid Orange Juice is far too much sugar (and thus carbs).

 

The idea that juice is healthy is just as much an old wives tale as the thought that eggs cause heart attacks.

[Dashinka 25,884]

16 minutes ago, Teddy B said:

You and I have had this juice conversation in the past. I know you do not like the sugar substitutes that are put in the diet and light juices and for good reasons. But I prefer the diet/light over the 100% juice because of the higher cals and sugar in the regular juice.

The body was not meant to metabolize aspartame, or sucralose, or non-nutritive cereal varnish.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Bill & Katya

[Dashinka 25,884]

4 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I think diet drinks should be included in this tax. Often people consume more of these drinks than regular soda thinking it's healthier. It's not. Laden with chemicals, dangerous sugar substitutes, and plenty of calories. The dentist will tell you that diet drinks are just as bad if not worse for teeth.

Agreed, it we want to try and change behavior, it should be all including diet and heavily laden coffee.

[Teddy B 17,252]

3 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

The body was not meant to metabolize aspartame, or sucralose, or non-nutritive cereal varnish.

I fully understand that as well as the side affects of these sweeteners. For me, having three or four 8oz glasses of fruit juice a week (usually at breakfast on the weekend), I think the benefits of drinking the diet/lite juices to avoid the sugar and cals outweighs the negatives of the sweeteners because I do not consume any more of them in anything else I eat or drink. I very rarely have any soda at all, maybe one or two cans of Fresca a month. Everything else I eat or drink is usually natural and not processed.

[OriZ 3,165]

12 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Personally I think fruits themselves are much better than either.  My wife is a fruit nut, and she now has me eating more fruit then I have in some time.  We make smoothies as well with a little plain yogurt or sour cream.  Sweet liquids whether they be soda, or juice are not good in my opinion, just drink water, or brewed tea with a little lemon and you will be satisfied!  That is except for a couple of hoppy ales on the weekend!

 

Yeah we have the ninja thing, but sometimes juice is faster and less hassle lol. I used to be a big fruit person when I was younger, but now I'm more into vegetables(funny - my wife rubbed off on me as well as that's how she is). The only fruits I like these days are mostly kiwi, pineapple, occasionally a melon or watermelon and apricots. Oh and loquats! but I have not been able to find those fresh in the US, only in Israel. I used to be into oranges, nectarines, peaches, apples etc but not anymore. I like OJ though

 

10 minutes ago, IAMX said:

Firstly, juice is not even remotely the same as the fruit. Most of the nutrition of fruits comes from the fruit itself.. not by stripping it of the skin, pulp, etc. (i.e. stripping the complex carbs), as is done with the vast majority of juice. For oranges, as one example, the rest of the orange provides complex carbs and protein which slow the digestive process down, providing satiation and offset to carbs ingested.

Already said that myself.

 

Quote

Secondly, supplementing the few vitamins in juice are ridiculously easy. Vitamin C is by far the easiest source to supplement, and the levels of Vitamin C one gets from fruit is generally way, way beyond what an adult needs in a day.. the rest is just excreted and not used. Chewable vitamins taken with food are no different whatsoever than the vitamins often supplemented by juices. The idea that they are healthy comes from the juice makers themselves and their marketing divisions -- obviously quite successful.

Many people can't afford vitamins, yes even the basic ones.

 

Quote

Thirdly, when people drink these juices they often drink them in larger quantity than they would soda. People increasingly know the drawbacks of soda. However, not enough know how unhealthy juice is, so they have this false perception that it's healthier.. it's not. It's sugary garbage.

What other people do is not really my business. I know not to do that.

 

Quote

- Foods that cause more hunger soon after consumption are not healthy. Juices are simple carbs absorbed into the body extremely quickly. Even worse for the high portion of Americans who are Type 2 (hyperglycemic). They inhibit peristalsis which likewise helps produce more of the hormone ghrelin from the fundus (stomach), which means soon after consumption they're hungry/thirsty again. No effect of satiety. Waste of calories.

I disagree from personal experience. 

 

Quote

- Foods that have such a terrible carb-to-calorie or carb-to-protein ratio are also not healthy. Juices are often around 30g to 0g protein, and 1:3 carbs to cals. This is simply unacceptable. It's not healthy at all.

 

For the others that might be reading, healthier would be:

 

- Buying the fruit

- Having water

 

This is also just as affordable as buying the juice, which tend not to be cheap. There's an overhead cost of stripping fruits to make juice (and place additives) that gets passed on to the consumer, down the supply chain.

Already said that myself as well.

 

Quote

This also doesn't go into the physiological and psychological effects sugar has. As I mentioned earlier, it should be classified as a psychoactive drug. From the moment sugar touches the tongue to when it exits the body, it begins a long chain of processes that cause physical and psychological addiction. The comedown effects people tend not to realize, but after having high sugar content like juices regularly, unless they're athletes/cross-country runners (will get to that part after), the body starts having phyiological and psychological addiction withdrawal symptoms: Irritability, changes in bowel movements, cravings, headaches, etc.

Never experienced that. As I said, you shouldn't drink a bottle in less than 3-4 days.

 

Quote

Regarding athletes and such, these are the people who are virtually unaffected by it. The great benefit of carbs is the quick availability to the muscles and organs. However, if they aren't being utilized with high amounts of physical activity, then they are simply stored. Because the liver, that deals with these carbs first, has such a small storage capacity of glucose (what it converts carbs to), it means that much of it is converted to fatty acids and distributed throughout the body. For athletes or high active people this is not an issue. Problem is, the vast majority of Americans are sedentary or low-active in strenuous physical activity. So for them, they need virtually no carbs to properly function through their day, which also means that a simple 8 oz bottle of Minute Maid Orange Juice is far too much sugar (and thus carbs).

 

The idea that juice is healthy is just as much an old wives tale as the thought that eggs cause heart attacks.

I wasn't trying to argue in favor of health benefits of juice, just that it is healthier than soda, which I stand behind 1000%.

Edited June 7, 2017 by OriZ

[IAMX 3,055]

15 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

The body was not meant to metabolize aspartame, or sucralose, or non-nutritive cereal varnish.

I agree. As people get more health conscious, this sucralose issue will become more prominent. Companies like Coca-Cola, as an investor in them, I notice they are increasing their product lines in perceived "healthy" drinks, because more younger people are staying away from soda, and obviously CC wants to keep it's well earned global market dominance.

 

Also what's been coming up is a lot more emphasis on alternative sugars, such as Stevia. We've yet to understand the full impact of alternatives like Stevia, which makes it potentially dangerous. 

 

Overall, what really needs to change is:

 

- Increased education on carbohydrates. As someone educated by the US education system, it's clear that Americans do not have enough understanding of the impact that carbs have on the body, how quickly they become in excess, and how much they damage the body (i.e. organs, metabolic system, etc.). If any of you have never seen a hepatologist, see one.. it's an eye-opener. At least 1/4 of Americans have some type of fatty liver disease (that spans from simple fatty liver to cirrhosis), and not from alcohol or drugs. The word fatty might imply this only happens in fat people, and while the effects of garbage diet often cause obesity, liver damage happens in non-obese people as well, case in point with me (5'11 170lbs).

- Moderation. Americans are taught to be high consumers. My mothers side, who are from Germany, but many higher-gen immigrants who've spent many years in the South, demand that you "finish your plate". This is partially why people in the South are so fat. Their diets are awful -- fried, high carb-dense food, and the demand that you finish your plate regardless of how satiated you might be.

- The idea that exercise is what saves you. Diet is at least 80% of what causes people to be fat and/or have food related health problems, not lack of exercise.

- Preventing drinking fluids at the same time of eating food. This just stretches the stomach and is part of what throws hormones out of whack. For obese people, for example, it's not that their stomachs are "bigger", human stomachs are the same size. However, they are a muscle that stretches and shrinks.. it's never permanent.

Edited June 7, 2017 by IAMX

[OriZ 3,165]

Just now, IAMX said:

.Preventing drinking fluids at the same time of eating food. 

I would choke

[IAMX 3,055]

4 minutes ago, OriZ said:

I would choke

Can't 100% avoid it. I do it myself, I just am far more aware of how much I drink and stick to a sip or so just to be able to swallow the food.

 

What I mean is that people will take a huge bite, swallow, then take a few gulps of something else (water, wine, soda, etc.), rinse, and repeat. This contributes to the stretching of the stomach, and the decreasing satiety effect, meaning it causes a person to feel full for less time. Even worse if what they're eating are "slider" foods, like crackers, bread, etc. A number of those foods also cause a person to retain water, something seen mainly in people aged 30+, but in the case of younger people, more health issues that generally were reserved for the elderly are being seen in teens and people in their 20s, such as non-drug and non-alcohol related liver damage, heart disease, etc. Carbs (which sugar is), is the primary culprit, but American lifestyle overall explains just about all of it.

Edited June 7, 2017 by IAMX

[Dashinka 25,884]

4 minutes ago, IAMX said:

 

- Preventing drinking fluids at the same time of eating food. This just stretches the stomach and is part of what throws hormones out of whack. For obese people, for example, it's not that their stomachs are "bigger", human stomachs are the same size. However, they are a muscle that stretches and shrinks.. it's never permanent.

This is something I noticed during my many trips to South Korea and Russia.  In SK, they only seem to drink a glass or two of water at the end of the meal (especially lunch), and at dinner they have their soju but they just sip it.  In Krasnoyarsk, it is very similar where we either have a small glass of alcohol that is sipped during dinner, or a small glass of juice at the end of dinner.

[IAMX 3,055]

6 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

This is something I noticed during my many trips to South Korea and Russia.  In SK, they only seem to drink a glass or two of water at the end of the meal (especially lunch), and at dinner they have their soju but they just sip it.  In Krasnoyarsk, it is very similar where we either have a small glass of alcohol that is sipped during dinner, or a small glass of juice at the end of dinner.

Yes. Sips aren't going to hurt, and sometimes need them just to swallow food or make it be more palatable. But most of the food is easily processed in the juices the stomach secretes.

 

Plus, we want to remember one rule of thumb -- we want the food to take a long time to digest. This is what helps keep us full. Foods that are digested the fastest are generally simple carbs, and they tend to be the worst foods, and the biggest culprit of health issues -- especially related to this topic on soda. Soda is the best example.

 

However, having tons of liquid effectively turns the food into watery mush that expands the stomach, limits the absorption of good nutrition (vitamins, protein, etc.), and increases the absorption of bad nutrition (ie digestible carbs).

Edited June 7, 2017 by IAMX

[IAMX 3,055]

 

45 minutes ago, OriZ said:

Yeah I know, the example was more for IAMX even though I added it to the reply to you  The calories don't scare me. The sugar...well...in moderation  At the end of the day water is best lol

I know we don't exactly see eye to eye on the issue, but I respect your positions. In the end, you know about your own health better than anyone else. I wish you the best of it too.