Exclusive Test Data: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

[IAMX 3,055]

Just now, Bill & Katya said:

I think a lot depends on the actual degree the students are pursuing.  I was in a large state university for my undergrad, but my program was rather small and quite tough with only those students that actually wanted to be there being there.  Then of course there are the students who graduated with a degree in interdisciplinary studies.

[sarahandyunus 133]

I think there totally is too much of a push for ALL high schoolers these days to do a 4 year degree, even if they enter with no direction or personal end goal. That's pretty problematic. There are many young people who would do fab with a technical skill or training, but who are pushed into doing a 4 year university degree because its "what you do". I saw many of them in undergrad - most either didn't finish the entire degree or ended up cheating their way through  That being said, it'd be awesome if more high schools helped students explore potential career paths before they graduate, so that they know what they want to do a 4 year degree in, or whether they'd rather do a technical course. I know I could have benefitted from the info! 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

13 minutes ago, IAMX said:

Did you ever try Calpoly? I would have went there before moving to Canada but I always had an aversion to moving to Socal.

I would have loved to do that but I work full time and I have a family. So that really did not work for me at all. 

12 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I think a lot depends on the actual degree the students are pursuing.  I was in a large state university for my undergrad, but my program was rather small and quite tough with only those students that actually wanted to be there being there.  Then of course there are the students who graduated with a degree in interdisciplinary studies.

The same with me really by the time we had a year left it was down to literally 8 of us in class, and we all were together for almost 2 years. 

[IAMX 3,055]

11 minutes ago, sarahandyunus said:

I think there totally is too much of a push for ALL high schoolers these days to do a 4 year degree, even if they enter with no direction or personal end goal. That's pretty problematic. There are many young people who would do fab with a technical skill or training, but who are pushed into doing a 4 year university degree because its "what you do". I saw many of them in undergrad - most either didn't finish the entire degree or ended up cheating their way through  That being said, it'd be awesome if more high schools helped students explore potential career paths before they graduate, so that they know what they want to do a 4 year degree in, or whether they'd rather do a technical course. I know I could have benefitted from the info! 

Pretty much. My graduating high school GPA was 1.43 (compared to 3.81 [SJSU] and 3.2 [SAIT]), I had one semester in HS where I got perfect attendance and failed 5 of 6 classes, having to go to summer school every year and barely being able to walk at grad. There was no way when graduating I wanted to go to college at all, never mind know where I wanted to go. When I first attended community college before my transfer, I changed majors several times. I started off in Comp Sci, but after realizing how many calculus courses I would have had to go through, I didn't feel like spending 4 years at community college getting requisite math out of the way before going to my major. Then, because of a business partner being a senior city planner for the city of Richmond, I switched to Civil Engineering. After seeing the job market for it, I immediately changed again, to Criminal Justice, mainly because as a natural ***hole, and spending most of the time by myself dealing with people (which I was already accustomed to), with an eye on investigations, I figured it to be a simple process. I also went through the process of applying for what was an easy cadet entry job with a police force (paid Academy), but the city's investigative branch took almost 2 years for their investigations, compared to other cities at 6-12 months. And in that time, after doing ride-alongs and getting to know people, I found out they flat out denied people who were even seeking employment during those 2 years, never mind employed. I couldn't just sit on my hands for 2 years.. I'd lose my place. This struck me as ridiculously bureaucratic and stupid, so I switched to Business, since I had already worked in multiple industries (video game industry, tech industry for companies like Google, explosives, etc.). All of this was over the span of 2 years, so I had wasted a few semesters, but it was CC so it wasn't too much debt, especially compared to the university debt I got at SJSU and SAIT. I really wouldn't expect too many HS'ers to know what they're going to do for the rest of their lives.

Edited June 5, 2017 by IAMX

[sarahandyunus 133]

2 minutes ago, IAMX said:

Pretty much. My graduating high school GPA was 1.43 (compared to 3.81 [SJSU] and 3.2 [SAIT]), I had one semester in HS where I got perfect attendance and failed 5 of 6 classes, having to go to summer school every year and barely being able to walk. There was no way when graduating I wanted to go to college at all, never mind know where I wanted to go. When I first attended community college before my transfer, I changed majors several times. I started off in Comp Sci, but after realizing how many calculus courses I would have had to go through, I didn't feel like spending 4 years at community college getting requisite math out of the way before going to my major. Then, because of a business partner being a senior city planner for the city of Richmond, I switched to Civil Engineering. After seeing the job market for it, I immediately changed again, to Criminal Justice, mainly because as a natural ***hole, and spending most of the time by myself dealing with people (which I was already accustomed to), with an eye on investigations, I figured it to be a simple process. I also went through the process of applying for what was an easy cadet entry job with a police force (paid Academy), but the city's investigative branch took almost 2 years for their investigations, compared to other cities at 6-12 months. And in that time, after doing ride-alongs and getting to know people, I found out they flat out denied people who were even seeking employment during those 2 years, never mind employed. I couldn't just sit on my hands for 2 years.. I'd lose my place. This struck me as ridiculously bureaucratic and stupid, so I switched to Business, since I had already worked in multiple industries (video game industry, tech industry for companies like Google, explosives, etc.). All of this was over the span of 2 years, so I had wasted a few semesters, but it was CC so it wasn't too much debt, especially compared to the university debt I got at SJSU and SAIT.

I think way too many people overlook CC as a valuable resource either as stand-alone training/degree or as a way to explore career paths or a segway into a 4 year degree! 

 

I sort of wish I'd done some CC to explore what I REALLY wanted to do, before my (debateably useless) liberal arts degree, but alas, everything worked out in the end  

[IAMX 3,055]

Just now, sarahandyunus said:

I think way too many people overlook CC as a valuable resource either as stand-alone training/degree or as a way to explore career paths or a segway into a 4 year degree! 

 

I sort of wish I'd done some CC to explore what I REALLY wanted to do, before my (debateably useless) liberal arts degree, but alas, everything worked out in the end  

Yeah, one of my buddies decided to go to DeVry.. never finished, and was over 100k in debt. That was one of the reasons I looked at CC, and at the time private loan rates were very manageable while working PT.

[IAMX 3,055]

18 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I would have loved to do that but I work full time and I have a family. So that really did not work for me at all. 

Blasted family. *shakes fist*

[IAMX 3,055]

Relevant:

 

 

Report: 75% Of Black California Boys Fail To Meet Reading And Writing Standards

 

Out of every four black boys in California classrooms, three failed to meet reading and writing standards on the most recent round of testing, according to data from the state Department of Education (DOE).

The state DOE administered the tests in the fall of 2016, but released the data at the end of May, after it was analyzed by CALmatters, a non-profit journalism venture dedicated to exploring state policies and politics. Over 50 percent of these boys scored in the lowest category on the test’s English section, trailing far behind their female classmates. The disparity reflects a widening gender gap in literacy scores across ethnic groups.

California published separate figures on the performance of various ethnic and economic groups, but did not offer a more detailed breakdown of how boys and girls perform within those groups, with state officials claiming that sorting the data is costly and time consuming. This recent data provides rare insight into how gender interacts with race and class in mastering basic literacy skills.

Female students hold a sizable lead over their male classmates in language arts. The gap spans all grade levels, and a higher family income does not appear to have an effect. The gap is also not unique to California, given that girls out-read boys in almost every country and at every age.

 

“I wouldn’t put this in the same category of severity or concern as other achievement gaps,” Tom Loveless, an education researcher for the Brookings Institution, said Thursday. “But there needs to be greater awareness of this.”

As early as fourth grade, roughly 80 percent of black boys failed to meet state reading standards. Of all ethnic groups for which data exists, black boys trailed black girls by the widest margin.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/06/05/report-75-of-black-california-boys-fail-to-meet-reading-and-writing-standards/

[Dashinka 25,869]

24 minutes ago, sarahandyunus said:

I think way too many people overlook CC as a valuable resource either as stand-alone training/degree or as a way to explore career paths or a segway into a 4 year degree! 

 

I sort of wish I'd done some CC to explore what I REALLY wanted to do, before my (debateably useless) liberal arts degree, but alas, everything worked out in the end  

I did CC my first two years, but it was more for economic reasons as I had to pay for college myself, and it made more sense to me.  I guess I was lucky as I always knew what I was going to get as a degree.  Might have been due to my love of chemistry.

 

[Cyberfx1024 7,980]

8 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I did CC my first two years, but it was more for economic reasons as I had to pay for college myself, and it made more sense to me.  I guess I was lucky as I always knew what I was going to get as a degree.  Might have been due to my love of chemistry.

 

I totally don't see why alot more people don't do like what you did. It would help tremendously with any out of pocket costs due to low tuition. But they get fed this line people automatically have to sign up to a four year school that cost $10k a year. The only thing is that here in California a fair number of the CC's like my city's Pasadena City College actively seek out foreign students because they charge them more. So for foreign students they pay a premium to get a student visa and go to school here in the USA, all the while the citizen has to stay in a 2 year community college for 4 years due to problems with over crowding. 

[IAMX 3,055]

22 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

I did CC my first two years, but it was more for economic reasons as I had to pay for college myself, and it made more sense to me.  I guess I was lucky as I always knew what I was going to get as a degree.  Might have been due to my love of chemistry.

 

What color is your bathtub? 

[yuna628 9,873]

11 minutes ago, cyberfx1024 said:

I totally don't see why alot more people don't do like what you did. It would help tremendously with any out of pocket costs due to low tuition. But they get fed this line people automatically have to sign up to a four year school that cost $10k a year. The only thing is that here in California a fair number of the CC's like my city's Pasadena City College actively seek out foreign students because they charge them more. So for foreign students they pay a premium to get a student visa and go to school here in the USA, all the while the citizen has to stay in a 2 year community college for 4 years due to problems with over crowding. 

I think CCs haven't been given the respect they deserve.. but perhaps it used to be the stigma that employers were only looking for people with advanced degrees rather than technical training or associates or that the quality of educated received is subpar. Most of the kids my husband sees these days at the college end up just transferring out to a university anyway. He does say there are some bad teachers there, and he's even tutoring a few of his coworkers that rely on his experience. He went through the UK university system of course, but he's always shocked how little the kids coming in seem to know compared to the kids back home. Sometimes they don't even know how to print out a sheet of paper or use a mouse or move a file or speak a coherent thought. The teachers are even worse! He's being made to take over a different position on campus for three months, while waiting for them to decide if they will give him full time hours, and a lot of homeschool kids come in there for technical training... he wonders if they will know any better.

[IAMX 3,055]

8 minutes ago, yuna628 said:

I think CCs haven't been given the respect they deserve.. but perhaps it used to be the stigma that employers were only looking for people with advanced degrees rather than technical training or associates or that the quality of educated received is subpar. Most of the kids my husband sees these days at the college end up just transferring out to a university anyway. He does say there are some bad teachers there, and he's even tutoring a few of his coworkers that rely on his experience. He went through the UK university system of course, but he's always shocked how little the kids coming in seem to know compared to the kids back home. Sometimes they don't even know how to print out a sheet of paper or use a mouse or move a file or speak a coherent thought. The teachers are even worse! He's being made to take over a different position on campus for three months, while waiting for them to decide if they will give him full time hours, and a lot of homeschool kids come in there for technical training... he wonders if they will know any better.

Having worked for companies like Google, having went to CC for my first two years made no difference whatsoever. I don't doubt there are companies who might be overly particular about stuff like this, but the real question is would you want to work for that company in the first place?

Edited June 5, 2017 by IAMX

[Dashinka 25,869]

14 minutes ago, IAMX said:

What color is your bathtub? 

Actually, my lab is the kitchen.  I love making desserts especially taking random recipes and experimenting with different flavor combinations.  So far, no complaints!

 

[IAMX 3,055]

2 minutes ago, Bill & Katya said:

Actually, my lab is the kitchen.  I love making desserts especially taking random recipes and experimenting with different flavor combinations.  So far, no complaints!

 

Lucky! I bought a new charcoal grill (because they taste and smell way better than the others, to me) a year or so ago and within two hours of firing it up I had bylaws officers fining me. Can't imagine experimenting with chemistry.. would probably send 5 fire trucks too and whatever the Canadian version of the ATF is.

Edited June 5, 2017 by IAMX