Entering the country married with a K-1 visa

[roverdriver 0]

Not that dissimilar from the story, really. Although personally, that family had it coming, and of course they're from Tampa Bay...there's a reason we call Florida 'The Freak State.' I feel bad for what they've been through, but at the same time, his wife did enter on a K1 when she was already married. Illegal and while maybe a simple mistake, it's still fraud.

From the information in the article, it wasn't fraud, which means trickery and deceit. It was a mistake, a really bad mistake, but a mistake. The fraud was actually commited by the US Government when they sent the letter saying her K3 visa had been approved, in order to trick her in to going back to Japan where they then told her, "Sorry, it's not really approved, plus you're banned for 10 years". Edited April 9, 2007 by roverdriver

[athena_ny 1]

Not that dissimilar from the story, really. Although personally, that family had it coming, and of course they're from Tampa Bay...there's a reason we call Florida 'The Freak State.' I feel bad for what they've been through, but at the same time, his wife did enter on a K1 when she was already married. Illegal and while maybe a simple mistake, it's still fraud.

From the information in the article, it wasn't fraud, which means trickery and deceit. It was a mistake, a really bad mistake, but a mistake. The fraud was actually commited by the US Government when they sent the letter saying her K3 visa had been approved, in order to trick her in to going back to Japan where they then told her, "Sorry, it's not really approved, plus you're banned for 10 years".

Oh yes, I think it's awful and I feel bad, but at the same time I guess I'm a proponent of personal responsibility and knowing the consequences of your actions.

And, as far as the US government is concerned, it will be considered fraud ... entered on a K1 visa on the pretense she wasn't married while she really was - and while while they did was fraudalent, there are no consequences for the US government doing so. Sad, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I won't sit here and say they're bad people - they obviously are not, but I doubt there's a real way around the situation. From an immigration perspective, it was fraud - even when, from a human perspective, it was only (if you can say only) a grave mistake.

[homesick_american 1]

Not that dissimilar from the story, really. Although personally, that family had it coming, and of course they're from Tampa Bay...there's a reason we call Florida 'The Freak State.' I feel bad for what they've been through, but at the same time, his wife did enter on a K1 when she was already married. Illegal and while maybe a simple mistake, it's still fraud.

From the information in the article, it wasn't fraud, which means trickery and deceit. It was a mistake, a really bad mistake, but a mistake. The fraud was actually commited by the US Government when they sent the letter saying her K3 visa had been approved, in order to trick her in to going back to Japan where they then told her, "Sorry, it's not really approved, plus you're banned for 10 years".

I was under the impression that they didn't notify you by letter of a K-3 visa being approved.

Are you sure it wasn't the I-130 that was the 'approved petition'? That's the only piece of paper we got from the US gov't with similar wording to that.

[pushbrk 12,250]

My fiancee and I have just sent our paperwork in so we are a long way from our wedding day, but we are thinking of the logisitics of our wedding. She is from Peru, so one option we thought of, once the K-1 visa has come through, is for me to go down to Peru, where we will have the ceremony with the families and be married and then we come back up the USA and stop in at my local marriage office where we get married again in the USA. Technically this is not legal since she will not be my fiance when we enter the USA but in reality is this going to cause any problems later on down the line since we can pretend to the US govemment that the wedding in Peru never actually happened??

Any thoughts would be appreciated

This should give anyone pause thinking about it: http://www.visajourney.com/news/2007/04/07/17/

That was my thought as well. A simple 'mistake' of using an incorrect visa can lead to a lot of trouble - read this gentleman's story - he is in the US separated from his wife and children who are living in Japan because she entered on a K-1 visa after she was already married and is now banned from returning to and living in the US for 10 years. She was found guilty of immigration fraud. The 'inconvenience' of waiting to get married in the US, or of getting married and using the right visa to enter the US is just not worth this risk.

No need to confuse apples with oranges. No, don't get married in Peru before entering the USA on a K1 visa. However, if you want to have a marriage-like "ceremony" in Peru that does not result in a "marriage" that's ok. Just be cautious not to use "wedding pictures" as proof of relationship or mention the ceremony at the interview. If you already have the visa in hand before the non-marriage ceremony, that's safer. You're doing nothing wrong, but don't want to be misinterpreted either.

The example in the story linked above refers to somebody who actually married before being awarded the visa. That's visa fraud, intentional or not.

[pushbrk 12,250]

Not that dissimilar from the story, really. Although personally, that family had it coming, and of course they're from Tampa Bay...there's a reason we call Florida 'The Freak State.' I feel bad for what they've been through, but at the same time, his wife did enter on a K1 when she was already married. Illegal and while maybe a simple mistake, it's still fraud.

From the information in the article, it wasn't fraud, which means trickery and deceit. It was a mistake, a really bad mistake, but a mistake. The fraud was actually commited by the US Government when they sent the letter saying her K3 visa had been approved, in order to trick her in to going back to Japan where they then told her, "Sorry, it's not really approved, plus you're banned for 10 years".

I was under the impression that they didn't notify you by letter of a K-3 visa being approved.

Are you sure it wasn't the I-130 that was the 'approved petition'? That's the only piece of paper we got from the US gov't with similar wording to that.

They would have gotten a letter from the USCIS indicating the petition was approved. Visa's are not "approved", they are "granted" and "issued".

[orion44 0]

My fiancee and I have just sent our paperwork in so we are a long way from our wedding day, but we are thinking of the logisitics of our wedding. She is from Peru, so one option we thought of, once the K-1 visa has come through, is for me to go down to Peru, where we will have the ceremony with the families and be married and then we come back up the USA and stop in at my local marriage office where we get married again in the USA. Technically this is not legal since she will not be my fiance when we enter the USA but in reality is this going to cause any problems later on down the line since we can pretend to the US govemment that the wedding in Peru never actually happened??

Any thoughts would be appreciated

This should give anyone pause thinking about it: http://www.visajourney.com/news/2007/04/07/17/

That was my thought as well. A simple 'mistake' of using an incorrect visa can lead to a lot of trouble - read this gentleman's story - he is in the US separated from his wife and children who are living in Japan because she entered on a K-1 visa after she was already married and is now banned from returning to and living in the US for 10 years. She was found guilty of immigration fraud. The 'inconvenience' of waiting to get married in the US, or of getting married and using the right visa to enter the US is just not worth this risk.

No need to confuse apples with oranges. No, don't get married in Peru before entering the USA on a K1 visa. However, if you want to have a marriage-like "ceremony" in Peru that does not result in a "marriage" that's ok. Just be cautious not to use "wedding pictures" as proof of relationship or mention the ceremony at the interview. If you already have the visa in hand before the non-marriage ceremony, that's safer. You're doing nothing wrong, but don't want to be misinterpreted either.

The example in the story linked above refers to somebody who actually married before being awarded the visa. That's visa fraud, intentional or not.

You say it's okay, but really, are you sure it's without any consequences? Sometimes you are asked at the interview if you have any type of ceremony planned. I am a little concerned total honesty at that point could result in a delay. And what if a guest at the wedding-like "ceremony" decides to call the embassy with the information that the couple got married? It does happen. And what question at POE could result in misunderstandings? I believe there are big risks in having a marriage-like "ceremony" at least in some countries, not Thailand. I don't see how they can be fatal mistakes, though. So, go in with your eyes open.

[homesick_american 1]

Not that dissimilar from the story, really. Although personally, that family had it coming, and of course they're from Tampa Bay...there's a reason we call Florida 'The Freak State.' I feel bad for what they've been through, but at the same time, his wife did enter on a K1 when she was already married. Illegal and while maybe a simple mistake, it's still fraud.

From the information in the article, it wasn't fraud, which means trickery and deceit. It was a mistake, a really bad mistake, but a mistake. The fraud was actually commited by the US Government when they sent the letter saying her K3 visa had been approved, in order to trick her in to going back to Japan where they then told her, "Sorry, it's not really approved, plus you're banned for 10 years".

I was under the impression that they didn't notify you by letter of a K-3 visa being approved.

Are you sure it wasn't the I-130 that was the 'approved petition'? That's the only piece of paper we got from the US gov't with similar wording to that.

They would have gotten a letter from the USCIS indicating the petition was approved. Visa's are not "approved", they are "granted" and "issued".

*sigh* I still don't understand why they thought that letter indicated that they were getting a visa.

[KansasDragon 1]

Ann and I are going to have a small party for family and friends in the Philippines before we come to the USA.

Then we plan to have a simple civil wedding in the USA to satisfy the "legal" requirements of our Visa.

When we have finished enough of the process where Ann and I can return to the Philippines for a vacation, we are planning on have a wedding ceremony in the Philippines to share with her family and friends.

We'd rather not tempt fate, and even have a "fake" wedding in the Phlippines first, when we can go this direction, and legally satisfy everyone, and still have a more formal wedding for family later. (Besides it's a good excuse to go back for a couple weeks.)

[Bobbie 1]

Ann and I are going to have a small party for family and friends in the Philippines before we come to the USA.

Then we plan to have a simple civil wedding in the USA to satisfy the "legal" requirements of our Visa.

When we have finished enough of the process where Ann and I can return to the Philippines for a vacation, we are planning on have a wedding ceremony in the Philippines to share with her family and friends.

We'd rather not tempt fate, and even have a "fake" wedding in the Phlippines first, when we can go this direction, and legally satisfy everyone, and still have a more formal wedding for family later. (Besides it's a good excuse to go back for a couple weeks.)

I think an 'engagement party' is a great idea!

Bobbie

[TimsDaisy 0]

You can't UNintentionally defraud someone. There's no accidental fraud. No mistake leads to a fraudulent action. To give fraud such a broad definition goes against both the plain English meaning of the word and the legal definition. Now, the government can presume fraud, but don't confuse that with a determination that the couple in the story committed visa fraud. The were stupid. And whoever advise that woman to leave the country should be beaten about the head. But if you accept the facts as presented in the article as true - no fraud exists.

I hope they find a swift resolution to the situation. They got some bad advice and made some bad choices - and yeah, should've read up more and refrained from signing the dang license. Still crappy though.

But not fraud.

[Yodrak 7]

roverdriver,

TimsDaisy has explained about the issue of fraud.

What I would like to point out is that when one needs good advice about a legal issue, and immigration is a legal issue, don't get it from the folks who are your opponent in the case. The people in this story should have run to an experienced immigration attorney to get an opinion on the issue from someone who would be looking out for their interests. USCIS is looking out for the government's interests.

The same holds true in less extreme, less obvious situations.

Yodrak

Not that dissimilar from the story, really. Although personally, that family had it coming, and of course they're from Tampa Bay...there's a reason we call Florida 'The Freak State.' I feel bad for what they've been through, but at the same time, his wife did enter on a K1 when she was already married. Illegal and while maybe a simple mistake, it's still fraud.

From the information in the article, it wasn't fraud, which means trickery and deceit. It was a mistake, a really bad mistake, but a mistake. The fraud was actually commited by the US Government when they sent the letter saying her K3 visa had been approved, in order to trick her in to going back to Japan where they then told her, "Sorry, it's not really approved, plus you're banned for 10 years".

Edited April 10, 2007 by Yodrak

[Ngoc-Anh 1]

do not make it too complicated. Just let her enter the States, get legally married in the States, apply for AOS then go back to Peru for the wedding reception.

This is what we are doing.

Or do it the other way round. Have you wedding reception in Peru, then enter the States on K1 and then get legally married!

[dionesiamn 0]

I have very little sympathy for the couple in the article. Those of you on visajourney are trying to do everything the right way. This couple tried to circumvent the system because they made the mistake of planning an expensive wedding without a visa in hand. BUT, that was their only mistake. Anything they did afterwards was a lie. The government doesn't hold for lying. The questions not answered in the article, but still of huge significance are:

1. On what kind of visa did she enter Hawaii? I assume it was a visitor visa, and was she candid at the POE that she was there to get married? Probably not.

2. What did she tell the POE guards when she finally came to the mainland? Did she lie? She must have.

3. How did immigration find out about them? Did they apply for AOS? Or did they just go about their business, having children and thinking that there would be no consequences?

4. Did the government really "lie" or "mislead" them when all they said was that the petition was approved? No, many of you are waiting for the same appoval - BUT you of course, understand that the petition approval is only a step towards visa approval and the government was not asking them to do any thing it wouldn't expect of any other K3 applicant: Be is your own country when you are seeking K3 visa approval.

The government is not the enemy or the bad guys here - this couple is. They willfully or maybe even ignorantly tried to circumvent the system. Ignorance is never an excuse. Had they sought knowledge about this process they would have known what they were doing was the wrong way. If they did know and went ahead anyway, then they and only they are the bad guys. Because the U.S. Immigration office has to deal with stuff like this, the process is slowed down for those of you are waiting for your visas.

[homesick_american 1]

I have very little sympathy for the couple in the article. Those of you on visajourney are trying to do everything the right way. This couple tried to circumvent the system because they made the mistake of planning an expensive wedding without a visa in hand. BUT, that was their only mistake. Anything they did afterwards was a lie. The government doesn't hold for lying. The questions not answered in the article, but still of huge significance are:

1. On what kind of visa did she enter Hawaii? I assume it was a visitor visa, and was she candid at the POE that she was there to get married? Probably not.

2. What did she tell the POE guards when she finally came to the mainland? Did she lie? She must have.

3. How did immigration find out about them? Did they apply for AOS? Or did they just go about their business, having children and thinking that there would be no consequences?

4. Did the government really "lie" or "mislead" them when all they said was that the petition was approved? No, many of you are waiting for the same appoval - BUT you of course, understand that the petition approval is only a step towards visa approval and the government was not asking them to do any thing it wouldn't expect of any other K3 applicant: Be is your own country when you are seeking K3 visa approval.

The government is not the enemy or the bad guys here - this couple is. They willfully or maybe even ignorantly tried to circumvent the system. Ignorance is never an excuse. Had they sought knowledge about this process they would have known what they were doing was the wrong way. If they did know and went ahead anyway, then they and only they are the bad guys. Because the U.S. Immigration office has to deal with stuff like this, the process is slowed down for those of you are waiting for your visas.

I agree...I have those same questions going through my head. I can't feel a whole lot of sympathy for someone who did something so incredibly stupid.

[ladykelia 0]

This couple tried to circumvent the system because they made the mistake of planning an expensive wedding without a visa in hand. BUT, that was their only mistake. Anything they did afterwards was a lie. The government doesn't hold for lying.

The more and more I think about this case critically, there is no possible way that the couple just made an honest mistake. She had to have lied about her intentions about coming into the country. If she had said "Oh I want to enter so i can get married" (The *only* honest answer) this would I assume have raised some flags and they would have probed her about her intentions and asked her for proof of ties to Japan. They also may have discovered that she was in the K1 system and in that case theres little probability that they would have let her into the country. Since ultimately she must have completed the K1 process, she also would have had to have lied or mislead the officer at her interview about her marital status. Also theres no indication in this article that this was not a legally binding wedding. If they had had some sort of engagement party and it was mistaken to be a wedding then I would feel sorry for them. But in this case I think its clear that the couple *knew* what they were doing, and intentionally tried to defraud the US government... I don't feel sorry for them at all.