Still confused about joint sponsor filing joint tax return

[kristinaa 2]

Hello VJ,

Our interview is coming up in a little more than a week. I am using a joint sponsor, my mother, who files taxes jointly with my father. Originally, I sent just one I-864A with her assets and her individual income from the tax return. NVC said that 'your 2014 income must match the total income reported on your Federal income tax returns'. It didn't match because it was a joint tax return. Since this was the second checklist, they scheduled the interview anyway, and said to bring the new AOS directly there, rather than to NVC again.

This makes me more than a little nervous, because I have to present somewhat "new" information, which might be under more scrutiny. This time, I have two I-864A forms for each of my parents. The income amount on the tax return is well above the poverty guidelines. Additionally, my mom is using assets, also more than sufficient.

Questions:

Page 5 on I-864 has a section for each joint sponsor (6.a - 9.c) Then, on the I-864A page 2, Part 11, there is another part for income, but this asks how much it was on the Federal tax return. Is the amount from I-864 then only the estimated income for the current year (2015) rather than directly from the tax return?

What amount should I put in each section? My mom has no income except for stock dividends. My father is retired, and his income is from pension and Social Security. Right now, 6.c has an estimation of my mom's dividends. Part 7.c has my father's income from the tax return, only his, not the total. Each of my parents put their respective income on Part 11 of I-864A, the total of which equals the number on the 1040. Is this correct? Thank you so much in advance for any help.

Edited September 13, 2015 by kristinaa

[Karmalious 50]

If none of the above apply and you are using the income of other household members to meet the minimum income requirement.

-------------- The sponsor must complete Form I-864 and each household member must complete Form I-864A

If none of the above apply and:

You do not meet the minimum income requirement and are using a joint sponsor, and

You are not using the income of other household members to qualify.

------------- The sponsor and the joint sponsor must each complete Form I-864

Did you have any income at all for 2014? If so, it would have required two of the form i-864

What forms to fill out, are dependent on your exact situation. It is found here just for reference, if you didn't know:

http://travel.state.gov/content/visas/english/immigrate/immigrant-process/documents/Step_4_Collect_Financial_Documents.html

Then you have to click on the link: "Complete and affidavit of support form"

If you are using forms i-864 and i-864a , if means that you are using the "mom and dad" whom you currently live with................. Is this correct for you?

Whereas, the last box is meant for using "mom and dad" and you DO NOT live with them.....

ANSWERS:

Is the amount from I-864 then only the estimated income for the current year (2015) rather than directly from the tax return?

Having a little difficulty understanding exactly what you are asking. Ideally, they would prefer to see the 2014 tax filing of your Joint-sponsor. If that 2014 tax filing still does not meet the requirement, but the 2015 income DOES!!, then that is where they suggest that you can send the "estimate for 2015". Sending the estimate is not required if the 2014 taxes already exceed the poverty limit. Then of course, if you are having to use the estimate.....Then you need to provide supporting documents of that.

What amount should I put in each section?

I cannot follow you along in the forms based on what you are saying..... I do not see a 6.c or a 7.c................

PART3, Q2: Current individual annual income:

Item Number 2. Current Individual Annual Income. Enter your current individual earned or retirement annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this contract and indicate the total on this line.

PART4, Q2a-c: Most recent tax year / Income

They want the ADJUSTED GROSS INCOME .................Not total income. The AGI is found on the tax form under Adjusted Gross Income.... This is not the same as "Total wages/tips earned"

---I HIGHLY RECOMMEND you read the instructions for this Part 4.

Continuing with the answer: There is no PART11 on i-864A...There is no Question 11 either that pertains to your questions. So I am pretty confused where your questions are exactly. As per what I had written above, they want your "AGI" not the total income. I am not understand where in particular you are confused. While these forms can be difficult, the AGI is easy to find on any tax document.

So AGAIN: ( on FORM-1864a)

PART3 Q2: current individual income for 2015

PART4: Q2a-c: Past AGI as reported on tax transcripts

PART4: Q3a-d: Any other assets ..... Just put down the dollar number they have in total.

I was not sure if you have read the instructions on how to fill this stuff out, but you can locate the instructions by googling: "Instructions for i-864" or "Instructions for i-864a". It should be the first result that pops up. I would definitely read the instructions document thoroughly before starting on these forms. I would also recommend that you print it out or you following along in the instructions question by question until complete. If you have been able to file your tax forms on your own in the past, then the instructions will be familiar as it looks similar to the instructions for filling out the 1040 when you do your taxes. The format and the lingo can be confusing for novice folks, but as long as you go question by question....it should be a little easier.

----- If i missed something, or didn't understand you accurately please let me know

Edited September 13, 2015 by Karmalious

[Karmalious 50]

Time ran out on EDIT:

'your 2014 income must match the total income reported on your Federal income tax returns'

If you are living with them, then it is i-864A......................If you do not live with them it is I-864......

BUT, the response are the same on both forms:

MOST RECENT TAX YEAR: 2014

TOTAL INCOME: Please READ the fine print, they want the Adjusted Gross Income for the applicable year. Not total wages/tips earned.

DEFINITONS: Adjusted Gross Income is not total income, but only that income which is subject to tax! MOST people get some sort of deduction on their taxes..... So for example if a person has a GROSS INCOME and total wages of $40,000 per year, their GROSS ADJUSTED INCOME might in fact only be $36,399. Hence the confusion for the two numbers. Just refer to the actual taxes filed for that year and use the number under AGI.

--On regular form: 1040 ............. the AGI is located on Line:37

Good Luck on your interview!!!!

Edited September 13, 2015 by Karmalious

[kristinaa 2]

Thanks for your detailed response, Karmalious. I found the source for your confusion with my numbers; I was referring to a now out-of-date version, although thankfully, it's still possible to use my version. The version you're referring to was updated on July 2 of this year.

Yes, I can see where the adjusted gross income and total income are. My question about the income on I-864A is whether I should put that number from line 37 on both of their I-864A forms. Maybe it sounds like a silly question, but I didn't know whether they want to know how much each individual earns, and not just the total combined income on the 1040. Does that make sense?

I asked about 2015 vs 2014 because it says:

Item Number 2. Current Individual Annual Income. Enter your current, individual, earned or retirement, annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total in the space provided.

The term 'current' income is what made me wonder if they wanted to know from this year (estimated). Does this mean that it is the same adjusted gross income amount as in the I-864A? Because on the I-864A, it says specifically, 'adjusted gross income', but it doesn't on the I-864.

Edited September 13, 2015 by kristinaa

[Karmalious 50]

Thanks for your detailed response, Karmalious. I found the source for your confusion with my numbers; I was referring to a now out-of-date version, although thankfully, it's still possible to use my version. The version you're referring to was updated on July 2 of this year.

Yes, I can see where the adjusted gross income and total income are. My question about the income on I-864A is whether I should put that number from line 37 on both of their I-864A forms. Maybe it sounds like a silly question, but I didn't know whether they want to know how much each individual earns, and not just the total combined income on the 1040. Does that make sense?

I asked about 2015 vs 2014 because it says:

Item Number 2. Current Individual Annual Income. Enter your current, individual, earned or retirement, annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this affidavit and indicate the total in the space provided.

The term 'current' income is what made me wonder if they wanted to know from this year (estimated). Does this mean that it is the same adjusted gross income amount as in the I-864A? Because on the I-864A, it says specifically, 'adjusted gross income', but it doesn't on the I-864.

Thanks for clarifying, I knew there was some reason for the mismatched question numbers.

If your parents filed jointly, then the AGI should be the same. In this instance, put the same number on both.....

Correct, that question #2 is the estimated income for 2015 ( Nothing official yet because the fiscal year is not over with ). ( No evidence is required for this, unless your 2014 did not surpass the poverty line )

Also: Taken from the instructions: You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe that submitting this evidence will help you establish ability to maintain sufficient income. You are not required to submit this evidence, however, unless specifically instructed to do so by a U.S. Government official.

ME? - I submitted last 3 months of paystubs even though I make about 40k/year.... I also submitted a letter of employment ( also not required )........ I dont know... I just wanted to be sure they definitely had no confusion about my ability to exceed the poverty line.

Don't worry about the too much for the "current income" question. This number is only an estimate. If your parents make the exact same amount year after year, then sure go ahead and put the AGI. I did not/was not able to predict my AGI. In my current income, I simply just estimated my annual gross income and rounded it.

Please note: On the newer forms for the question "Current Income................. Neither form suggests you to put in the Adjusted Gross Income. They only mention to use the AGI number on your past returns: 2014,2013,2012

Edited September 13, 2015 by Karmalious

[Anh map 2,098]

I-864A is for an individual. You cannot combine mom's and dad's tax info on one form. Do not submit 2 864A's.

Assuming your (petitioner) income is minimal to zero and mom's assets are the majority of the income needed to satisfy the affidavit of support have mom do an I-864 and dad do an 864A to combine income with mom. It's cleaner and easier. On mom's form only her tax and income information. On dad's form only his info. Don't forget all the needed documentation to support the asset value claim.

The income number for a salary/wage earner is the gross (before deductions), not the AGI. For a self employed person it is the income shown on line 22 of their most recent form 1040.

Mom and dad show their individual incomes (mom-dividend, dad-pension and social security) on their respective forms.

[kristinaa 2]

Right, because the adjusted gross income is only for 1040EZ, right?

Really? I thought that as the petitioner, I have to be the sponsor. So, I should check off first of two joint sponsors. On the parts of the I-864 and I-864A, I would put their respective current income, and in the part that asks for the tax information, that should be the same for both? Why can't I use two I-864A forms? Does it just look confusing/messy?

[Ryan H 3,795]

Really? I thought that as the petitioner, I have to be the sponsor. So, I should check off first of two joint sponsors. On the parts of the I-864 and I-864A, I would put their respective current income, and in the part that asks for the tax information, that should be the same for both? Why can't I use two I-864A forms? Does it just look confusing/messy?

You are correct that you are the sponsor; however, ticking off "first of two joint sponsors" on your I-864 would not be correct because only one joint sponsor is permitted. Regardless of whether or not you meet the threshold, you are still considered the sponsor.

You have no income to combine with your parents, that is why you do not use two I-864A forms.

[kristinaa 2]

I have some income for 2014.

Item Number 7. This question gives you the option of including certain other non-dependent relatives who are living in your residence as part of your household size. Such relatives may include your mother, father, sister, brother or adult children, if they are living in your residence. However, the only reason to include these relatives in your household size is if you need to include their income when you calculate your household income for purposes of meeting the income requirement for this affidavit. To be considered, any relative included in this category must sign and submit Form I-864A, Contract Between Sponsor and Household Member.

I'm using the income from two household members, so don't they each need to complete an I-864A, per the instructions? Would it be better to omit the parent without the income that meets the requirement? It's a little difficult to submit another I-864, because they would have to send it express mail to get here in time. I'd rather avoid that if possible.

[KayDeeCee 4,892]

An I-864 from one and an I-864A from the other to work together as joint sponsorship for you is the best way. But you CAN use an I-864A from each of them. Where it asks for their tax info from the last 3 years, use the Total Income from their joint returns, not the AGI. That was the reason for the checklist stating the amounts did not match. Both their forms will have the same Total Incomes from the last 3 years since they filed jointly. Where it asks for their current income and assets, is where you list their individual income/asset amounts. When supplying their most recent tax return, use a copy of their return with all forms, schedules, W-2s and/or 1099s so it is clear where each one's individual income comes from. Or, use tax transcripts plus each of their W-2s and/or 1099s.

Combine all their income/assets with yours on your I-864 where it asks.

[kristinaa 2]

Thanks for confirming that, KayDeeCee. I hope it will be okay with the two I-864A forms. I'm also going to attach the 1099.

I think I got it now; thanks, everyone, for your time and assistance. I really appreciate it. Nine more days now.