Saudi court gives death penalty to man who renounced his Muslim faith

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm not talking about the US government. I'm talking average Joe. Which of the two is worse in the eyes of the general public? Which do you personally think is worse?

I don't think that average Joe should get a pass for hypocrisy and ignorance.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You need to add that in the country where this man lives, his act is considered a crime, punishable by death.

Do I find it despicable that someone should die for renouncing a religion or tearing up a book? I do but that's my western upbringing, even when I am reminded that other religions did the same thing. I am sure the Saudis also find it despicable many of the things we do in our society and that they see our hypocrisy when we police the world with cries of of human rights and freedom, and spend billions of dollars waging wars, all the while millions of Americans live in poverty. I find it despicable the treatment of women in certain countries in the ME, as I am sure they find it despicable that we allow our women to prostitute themselves in the streets of our shiny cities.

Really, there is not a single country in the world with any moral high ground to cast stones at the Saudis. They have their laws, we have ours.

Well in fairness we don't execute people for heresy in western countries because we have secular governments that separate church from state. 300-400 years ago however that sort of thing was all the rage.

We also don't have as many sectarian divisions.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Alas, I don't defend them. As I said before I find these laws despicable, as I find despicable the mockery the 2nd Amendment has become.

In fact, I think instances like these are the reason we should never waver in our defense of the 1st Amendment and keep a clear separation between church and state, no matter how heavy the artillery the religious right throws at it. These Saudi laws work in the same way as those who believe the law should prevent health insurance companies from providing contraception.

I don't get the defense of Saudi and other radical nations. A few of you speak up and defend their ways and fight tooth and nail against the Second Amendment of our Constitution. I don't mean that as a dig or insult, it just seems so strange to me.

Edited February 26, 2015 by JohnR!

[JohnR! 5,495]

But we do execute people, nonetheless. In our relative moral scale there are offenses that justify the death penalty. The Saudis have their own scale, based on their culture and religion.

Well in fairness we don't execute people for heresy in western countries because we have secular governments that separate church from state. 300-400 years ago however that sort of thing was all the rage.

We also don't have as many sectarian divisions.

[GandD 5,966]

One derogatory comment removed

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

But we do execute people, nonetheless. In our relative moral scale there are offenses that justify the death penalty. The Saudis have their own scale, based on their culture and religion.

In the US perhaps, but it's been abolished in western Europe.

[Dakine10 5,452]

You need to add that in the country where this man lives, his act is considered a crime, punishable by death.

Do I find it despicable that someone should die for renouncing a religion or tearing up a book? I do but that's my western upbringing, even when I am reminded that other religions did the same thing. I am sure the Saudis also find it despicable many of the things we do in our society and that they see our hypocrisy when we police the world with cries of of human rights and freedom, and spend billions of dollars waging wars, all the while millions of Americans live in poverty. I find it despicable the treatment of women in certain countries in the ME, as I am sure they find it despicable that we allow our women to prostitute themselves in the streets of our shiny cities.

Really, there is not a single country in the world with any moral high ground to cast stones at the Saudis. They have their laws, we have ours.

As individuals, we can though. We can acknowledge that two wrongs don't make a right without trying to hold all wrongs as being equal. The definition of what is considered a capital crime in Saudi Arabia cannot compare with our definition. Moral high ground is relative.

[JohnR! 5,495]

That's my point as well. The moral issue is not what the crime is or was, so much as the punishment that I object to.

As individuals, we can though. We can acknowledge that two wrongs don't make a right without trying to hold all wrongs as being equal. The definition of what is considered a capital crime in Saudi Arabia cannot compare with our definition. Moral high ground is relative.

[Dakine10 5,452]

That's my point as well. The moral issue is not what the crime is or was, so much as the punishment that I object to.

It can be both. If capital punishment is wrong, capital punishment for non capital reasons is worse.

[JohnR! 5,495]

You can't say that without defining what 'capital reasons' are. In this case, renouncing one's faith in Saudi Arabia is considered a capital offense, and we're back to moral relativism.

Other countries shake their heads at capital punishment in America in the same manner we shake ours at the Saudis. Either capital punishment is wrong or not. In all cases, regardless.

It can be both. If capital punishment is wrong, capital punishment for non capital reasons is worse.

[Dakine10 5,452]

You can't say that without defining what 'capital reasons' are. In this case, renouncing one's faith in Saudi Arabia is considered a capital offense, and we're back to moral relativism.

Other countries shake their heads at capital punishment in America in the same manner we shake ours at the Saudis. Either capital punishment is wrong or not. In all cases, regardless.

As an individual I can. I can accept murder as a capital crime and reject expression of religion as one. I can do that even while generally disagreeing with capital punishment. Therefore as an individual I can say Saudi Arabia's actions are worse. Which I am saying.

I understand your point and I expect the Saudi's would respond with that exact line of reasoning if the US government took an official position. Doesn't make it right.

[JohnR! 5,495]

:thumbs:

As an individual I can. I can accept murder as a capital crime and reject expression of religion as one. I can do that even while generally disagreeing with capital punishment. Therefore as an individual I can say Saudi Arabia's actions are worse. Which I am saying.

I understand your point and I expect the Saudi's would respond with that exact line of reasoning if the US government took an official position. Doesn't make it right.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I don't think that average Joe should get a pass for hypocrisy and ignorance.

So which of the two do you think is worse?

[Merrytooth 5,748]

Isn't it a sad case to be born in religion that you don't believe in and yet can't renounce?

[Teddy B 17,251]

So which of the two do you think is worse?

I think Plain Jane is worse than Average Joe.