The President's answer is "more extensive inclusion"

[khwaidee1 196]

in my mind all isis wants is attention and fear. and we just can't help ourselves.

my interpretation of 'extensive inclusion' would be embracing the people we are so quick to push aside - HERE, IN THIS COUNTRY. isis is not on our doorstep. the majority of americans are not hell bent on killing anyone who doesn't agree with them. so, like a parent who has the ability to ignore a tantrum or get down on their knees and wail right alongside their toddler - we can either approach this with some intelligence and work to keep those on the fringe from adopting such a destructive ideology or we can keep rolling with the punches and hope extremism is something that can ultimately be silenced (hint - probably not).

If it's just in this country, then that makes sense. But, there is also the assimilation issue, the Tsarnaev brothers were given every opportunity to be included and assimilate but they chose not to. Some people just do not want to assimilate and you can't force them. Being inclusive to the people in this country kind of ignores the problem in the ME. Containment and elimination seems more prudent then to try and "degrade" and have dialogue with someone so intent on their objectives they are willing to blow themselves up based on the rewards they will receive based on a bastardization of a holy book. I believe there are some people you will never be able to reason with or have dialogue with. If I recall correctly, Suleiman and King Richard tried that and it didn't work out so well.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

If it's just in this country, then that makes sense. But, there is also the assimilation issue, the Tsarnaev brothers were given every opportunity to be included and assimilate but they chose not to. Some people just do not want to assimilate and you can't force them. Being inclusive to the people in this country kind of ignores the problem in the ME. Containment and elimination seems more prudent then to try and "degrade" and have dialogue with someone so intent on their objectives they are willing to blow themselves up based on the rewards they will receive based on a bastardization of a holy book. I believe there are some people you will never be able to reason with or have dialogue with. If I recall correctly, Suleiman and King Richard tried that and it didn't work out so well.

Some people want the majority to assimilate to their culture / religion only. No negotiation.

[khwaidee1 196]

Some people want the majority to assimilate to their culture / religion only. No negotiation.

Not talking about culture or religion, but being included as an American in America. If you choose not too, to not learn the language or the ways of the land then it makes it difficult to feel "included" and thus, if I understood val's point, that is what the summit hopes to accomplish. Near where I live there is a huge population of immigrants who choose not too assimilate for one reason or another. However, most of them have and have become successful business owners, students, inventors, doctors, etc and feel that America is there home as opposed to coming here a rebelling against the place. If you don't like America and all that is has to offer, why come here?

[khwaidee1 196]

Some people want the majority to assimilate to their culture / religion only. No negotiation.

After re-reading your post I think I misread it the first time, that would be ISIS. Even those who have pledged assimilation to save their lives are still murdered by them anyway. I believe there is also a mob mentality to a good portion of these folks. With Chad and Niger just a hop skip and a jump from Libya, not long til the Boko boyz hook up with ISIS, that will be interesting.

[decocker 7,198]

If it's just in this country, then that makes sense. But, there is also the assimilation issue, the Tsarnaev brothers were given every opportunity to be included and assimilate but they chose not to. Some people just do not want to assimilate and you can't force them. Being inclusive to the people in this country kind of ignores the problem in the ME. Containment and elimination seems more prudent then to try and "degrade" and have dialogue with someone so intent on their objectives they are willing to blow themselves up based on the rewards they will receive based on a bastardization of a holy book. I believe there are some people you will never be able to reason with or have dialogue with. If I recall correctly, Suleiman and King Richard tried that and it didn't work out so well.

this is true. in that regard, do we want to minimize the number of people who refuse or do we want to try, yet again, to 'contain' and 'eliminate'?

[khwaidee1 196]

this is true. in that regard, do we want to minimize the number of people who refuse or do we want to try, yet again, to 'contain' and 'eliminate'?

If their objective is to kill my family and I and other innocent men, women and children and the only dialogue they wish to have is to make me pray to their god before they cut off my head then yes, eliminate them. In societal animals, for example wolves, if there is a member of the pack whose behavior is detrimental to the well being of the pack, the pack will ostracize/banish that member or if necessary, eliminate it to ensure the well being of the pack. In my opinion, ISIS is that wolf and ostracizing/banishing them is no longer an option. How do you have dialogue with someone whose sole purpose in life is to kill you and everyone like you?

" do we want to minimize the number of people who refuse" how would this be done?

[Merrytooth 5,748]

Not talking about culture or religion, but being included as an American in America. If you choose not too, to not learn the language or the ways of the land then it makes it difficult to feel "included" and thus, if I understood val's point, that is what the summit hopes to accomplish. Near where I live there is a huge population of immigrants who choose not too assimilate for one reason or another. However, most of them have and have become successful business owners, students, inventors, doctors, etc and feel that America is there home as opposed to coming here a rebelling against the place. If you don't like America and all that is has to offer, why come here?

What are the incentives for the immigrants to integrate when there is a huge population of same immigrants in the area they live in?

They mix with their own kind, shop at their own ethnic stores, speak their own languages. They do not even need to venture out of their comfort zone.

They probably does not like US but like the stability/welfare that US could offer compared to their own countries.

[decocker 7,198]

If their objective is to kill my family and I and other innocent men, women and children and the only dialogue they wish to have is to make me pray to their god before they cut off my head then yes, eliminate them. In societal animals, for example wolves, if there is a member of the pack whose behavior is detrimental to the well being of the pack, the pack will ostracize/banish that member or if necessary, eliminate it to ensure the well being of the pack. In my opinion, ISIS is that wolf and ostracizing/banishing them is no longer an option. How do you have dialogue with someone whose sole purpose in life is to kill you and everyone like you?

" do we want to minimize the number of people who refuse" how would this be done?

i don't think we can have a dialogue with someone who has decided their goal is to kill anyone different than themselves. but i do think we can have a dialogue with those on the fringe of extremism and attempt to reverse any trends in recruitment. and i don't think that dialogue can be held simultaneously with attempts to 'eliminate' detrimental behavior. but we can work on dialogue with the fringe and ostracize the unreachable at the same time, for the most part because isis is not beheading and taking over america. minimizing the number of people who refuse a civilized existence is our best defense imo, not playing the game on their terms, kill for a kill. in war, how do you defeat an enemy if their main desire is death? give them what they want?

With Chad and Niger just a hop skip and a jump from Libya, not long til the Boko boyz hook up with ISIS, that will be interesting.

i really don't see this happening.

[Merrytooth 5,748]

Chinese saying, "to be merciful to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself".

The extremists repay kindness with more killings.

[khwaidee1 196]

i don't think we can have a dialogue with someone who has decided their goal is to kill anyone different than themselves. but i do think we can have a dialogue with those on the fringe of extremism and attempt to reverse any trends in recruitment. and i don't think that dialogue can be held simultaneously with attempts to 'eliminate' detrimental behavior. but we can work on dialogue with the fringe and ostracize the unreachable at the same time, for the most part because isis is not beheading and taking over america. minimizing the number of people who refuse a civilized existence is our best defense imo, not playing the game on their terms, kill for a kill. in war, how do you defeat an enemy if their main desire is death? give them what they want?

i really don't see this happening.

Sounds good, but how would this be accomplished without eliminating them, incarcerate them?

And for the Boko boyz, they continue to wreak their terror with very little to impede them. Nigeria has asked for our help to no avail. What of the kidnapped girls? Don't you find it odd that most of the Boko boyz suicide bombers are young, really young teen girls? Where did they come from? Are they doing this of their own volition in furtherance of their religion? Why is no one talking about this? Why would a 12 year old girl wear a suicide vest? Chad and Niger may have the upper hand for now, but if it slips, who is their northern neighbor?

[decocker 7,198]

Sounds good, but how would this be accomplished without eliminating them, incarcerate them?

And for the Boko boyz, they continue to wreak their terror with very little to impede them. Nigeria has asked for our help to no avail. What of the kidnapped girls? Don't you find it odd that most of the Boko boyz suicide bombers are young, really young teen girls? Where did they come from? Are they doing this of their own volition in furtherance of their religion? Why is no one talking about this? Why would a 12 year old girl wear a suicide vest? Chad and Niger may have the upper hand for now, but if it slips, who is their northern neighbor?

our focus is always incarceration/elimination. i do not think that religious based extremism can be eliminated. i think we could probably kill a whole bunch of them, but inevitably there will be a few left behind. some of those left behind will be their children, their family. if these survivors weren't extremists before, chances are they will evolve into their own form of defense. that's how this stuff keeps going on, and we've got to attempt a different approach for the sake of these children who are manipulated into killing themselves for something they've no ability to grasp. i think i've posted this before, but watching this series only strengthened my opinion that this isn't something we can kill our way out of. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzCAPJDAnQA

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Chinese saying, "to be merciful to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself".

The extremists repay kindness with more killings.

Yes. Indeed.

The Chinese also say to "Kill the chicken in front of the monkey"

杀鸡儆猴

[JohnR! 5,495]

Not very surprisign considering their history of violence and barbarism...

Chinese saying, "to be merciful to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself".

The extremists repay kindness with more killings.

[LibCampFireClub 635]

Not very surprisign considering their history of violence and barbarism...

Like what? Perhaps the Japanese rape of Nanjing?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

China has the longest continuing civilization.