Answering the immediate relative question for B2 application, prior to filing for a K1 visa

[team_gn 1]

Hello,

My boyfriend and I plan to begin filing for K1 visa in the coming weeks, after we have compiled all needed information. So, we obviously plan to marry at some point in the future after the K1 visa has processed, though at the moment we have not set a date, have no specific wedding plans in mind, don't know exactly when we will submit the K1 application, etc. We would like for him to visit me in the US for about two weeks on a B1/B2 visa in June this year. We feel that it is important for him to meet my family and see what my life here is like, as well as spend more time together prior to him making a permanent move on a K1 visa. We have zero intention of marrying during this trip, and it really will only be a two week trip, as that is all the time he can get off from work.

The DS-160 form asks whether you have any immediate relatives in the US, including fiance/fiancee, and asks the relationship of the person paying for the trip (friend or "other"). Any ideas on the best way to answer these questions? I think "other" may be appropriate for the relationship question, but not sure about the immediate relatives. We are not looking to hide the fact that he is visiting a significant other in the US. But, we don't want to volunteer more information than required. It's already a toss-up to whether the application will be approved, and we don't want to make an already dubious situation worse. I wrote a sample invitation letter, below, that might address the fiancee issue, but I understand that invitation letters are not helpful, and may sometimes be harmful to the application. Is there really a difference between saying "I am going to visit my girlfriend, whom I plan to marry at some point in the future" and saying "I am going to visit my fiancee, whom I plan to marry at some point in the future"?

Sample letter:

Hi (my guy),

Please use this letter as a formal invitation to visit me during summer 2014. As discussed, you may arrive anytime between May 18, 2014 and June 14, 2014 and visit for a period no longer than two weeks. This is a good time to visit, as the weather will not be too hot yet, and there will be many activities in the city and surrounding areas.

Though we have already discussed marriage, I feel that it is essential for you to first meet my family and friends, and to see something of what my life is like here before we set a date or make any specific marriage arrangements. I feel that two weeks will give you enough time to meet my relatives and see some of the area, and also allow us to spend some valuable time together. I really enjoyed my visit to New Delhi last fall, and I am looking forward to your visit as the next step in our relationship.

During your visit, you will be staying at (my address). I will be responsible for all trip-related costs, including the advance purchase of the round-trip ticket, food, lodging, transportation, etc. You can take this letter for your visa interview as part of the supporting documents for your visa application.

Thank you for your consideration, and I appreciate any insight.

Thanks

[RhettVoe 281]

Trying to hide facts by referring to a fiance as a 'friend' can backfire....as well as the sad but true fact that countless people have written the letters and made the same claims regsrding their alleged lack of intentions to marry and stay put, and a significant percentage of those same folks have indeed changed their minds (usually about 5 minutes after claiming their baggage), thus eroding the already diminishing trust a VO may have in granting a tourist visa to yet another person who may use it for avoiding the processing wait time....better tobeup front, IMHO

[Boiler 43,588]

Much much better that he shows he is paying his own way and no invitation letter needed.

[team_gn 1]

Hello. Thank you so much for the responses here. Just an update.

My guy went for the visitor visa interview this morning. After much debate, we, too, decided that it would be better to be as honest as possible about the purpose of his visit and whom he was going visit.

The visa was denied. But, the reason for the denial was that he was applying for the wrong type of visa. They implied that he was supposed to apply for a fiance visa, not a visitor visa. I haven't spoken to him yet to check any papers or anything that they may have given him, but below is how he said that the interview went.

Officer- why do you want to visit the U.S.

MG- I am going to visit my fiancee.

Office- Why don't you apply for a fiance visa?

MG- I am going to visit her place Meet her parents and relatives.

Office- sorry we can't give you a visa. apply for the fiance visa.

I don't think they asked to look at any documents. I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have been okay had they said you don't have strong ties at home, or not enough money to support yourself during the visit, or I think you might get married, or something similar. While I don't know the "official" denial reason, it seems like the officer is suggesting that he applied for the wrong type of visa, which is incorrect. A fiance visa is not for visiting, and it would have been wrong to apply for that purpose. And it would have been denied.

Thanks for listening.

[RhettVoe 281]

What the CO likely meant was....the fiancée visa sounded more appropriate....and as I mentioned before, thanks to the countless thousands who claimed they had no intentions of marrying and adjusting status but who did that very thing, well, that just raises the 214b bar significantly for others.....as to documents, well, there is NO specific document he could have presented that would have made any positive difference to the outcome of his interview...for the simple reason that no piece of paper can control his actions nor provide any enforceable guarantee that he would do exactly what he said he would....namely, visit for a couple of weeks and then return.

[team_gn 1]

Hello. Thank you so much for the responses here. Just an update.

My guy went for the visitor visa interview this morning. After much debate, we, too, decided that it would be better to be as honest as possible about the purpose of his visit and whom he was going visit.

The visa was denied. But, the reason for the denial was that he was applying for the wrong type of visa. They implied that he was supposed to apply for a fiance visa, not a visitor visa. I haven't spoken to him yet to check any papers or anything that they may have given him, but below is how he said that the interview went.

Officer- why do you want to visit the U.S.

MG- I am going to visit my fiancee.

Office- Why don't you apply for a fiance visa?

MG- I am going to visit her place Meet her parents and relatives.

Office- sorry we can't give you a visa. apply for the fiance visa.

I don't think they asked to look at any documents. I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have been okay had they said you don't have strong ties at home, or not enough money to support yourself during the visit, or I think you might get married, or something similar. While I don't know the "official" denial reason, it seems like the officer is suggesting that he applied for the wrong type of visa, which is incorrect. A fiance visa is not for visiting, and it would have been wrong to apply for that purpose. And it would have been denied.

Thanks for listening.

Just checked with him, denied under section 214B.

Thanks,

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

He should have said, in response to "why," that he wanted to visit you for 2 weeks before returning home and going through the K-1 process. His nonspecific "see her place" was not convincing.

[Boiler 43,588]

What Is Section 214(b)?

Section 214(b) is part of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA). It states:

Every alien shall be presumed to be an immigrant until he establishes to the satisfaction of the consular officer, at the time of application for admission, that he is entitled to a nonimmigrant status...

To qualify for a visitor or student visa, an applicant must meet the requirements of sections 101(a)(15)(B) or of the INA respectively. Failure to do so will result in a refusal of a visa under INA 214(b). The most frequent basis for such a refusal concerns the requirement that the prospective visitor or student possess a residence abroad he/she has no intention of abandoning. Applicants prove the existence of such residence by demonstrating that they have ties abroad that would compel them to leave the U.S. at the end of the temporary stay. The law places this burden of proof on the applicant.

Our consular officers have a difficult job. They must decide in a very short time if someone is qualified to receive a temporary visa. Most cases are decided after a brief interview and review of whatever evidence of ties an applicant presents.

[SennaBrigante 92]

A better answer would have been to state that he was to travel to the US to meet your family to "formalize" your engagement prior to filing a K1.

There's no guarantee that it will get him the visa but it MIGHT encourage more questions from the CO which could give your fiance more opportunities to explain his case.

You can always apply again and again and honestly, COs RARELY if ever ask to see documents during the interview.

[RhettVoe 281]

and don't forget that the K-1 visa allows the holder to enter the US and marry within 90 days...that period of time could be used to meet the family, see the US, etc....if for some reason the marriage does not take place within that time frame, the foreign fiancée must return to his/her country but can easily get another K1...that is most likely why the CO mentioned a different visa...tourist visas are not required to meet the family, etc, because of the 90 day window given to the K1 visa holder to take care of a lot of those things often mentioned in a tourist visa application...they can just as easily be done on the K1 as a B2....the persistent abuse of the B2 by all of those mind changers is likely motivating more VOs to insist on K1 visas...

[team_gn 1]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I understand that at this point I'm just beating a dead horse. I understand that there is a lot of abuse of the B2 visa, and I understand that COs have a very difficult job. I know that they aren't mind-readers. At the same time, I feel that part of that job is to be precise about the reason for rejection, and also accurate based upon the type of visa being applied for. If the CO really meant I think you'll get married and not come back, or I don't think you have enough ties here, or s/he felt that my guy's answer to why was too vague, or I just don't think you should go visit now, s/he should have stated that unequivocally. And it would provide a very concrete issue to address for the next interview. However, if the CO really did state exactly what s/he meant in the denial, the advice to apply for a K1 in lieu of a visitor visa is downright incorrect. K1 are not visitor visas, they are not easily obtained. Applicants have to sign statements of intent to marry within 90 days. And, there is a limit on the number of K1 visas that can be obtained without a waiver. Plus, that amounts to abusing the K1 system, and makes it difficult for other people to obtain K1 visas.

Thank you for listening to my rant, and I promise I'm finished now. And it's not just sour grapes because of a denial, it's the stated reason behind it. I just wish that there were some sort of avenue to appeal visitor visa denials, especially when the denial reason (based solely upon what the CO stated during the interview) amounts to the CO not understanding the appropriate use of a K1 visa.

Thanks again.

[Boiler 43,588]

I would be very very surprised if the CO did not understand the appropriate use of the K1.

The CO did give a reason.

There is no limit to the number of times you may apply, effectively an appeal.

[RhettVoe 281]

A CO has vastly more experience in these matters...the K1 was subtly suggested for the reasons I mentioned above...when denying an application, most of the time a CO is not going to be specific...and here is why...if the CO said..'I don't think you'll return', all that will do is start more conversation after the denial...same for other basic reasons....the applicant will just run out and try to find some piece of paper that will somehow reverse the denial....making promises that one will return won't do the trick...letters from anyone and everyone stating that the author 'vouches for' said applicant are also largely meaningless....

A K1's 90 day window provides sufficient time for the foreign fiancée to meet and greet the family, etc....a tourist visa is not required to carry out those activities...a K1 can be, in essence, renewed with little difficulty...but the biggest problem that many have with the K1 is the overall processing time....typically around 8 months start to finish...no one wants to wait..so..try to get a tourist visa, promise no mind change will take place, arrive in the US, then change your mind...and thus avoids the wait....most experienced COs have seen this happen all too often....which is why they will suggest the K1....

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I think the COs are purposely vague to weed out fraud. Notwithstanding the fact that the decision is mostly decided before the interview, he was given his one shot to make his case. He was asked, why don't you get the K-1, and his answer was limp, lame, dud. Interview over.

If they asked more specific questions, people would have more opportunity to lie, go with their rehearsed answers, etc.

[jan22 2,901]

Thank you everyone for your feedback. I understand that at this point I'm just beating a dead horse. I understand that there is a lot of abuse of the B2 visa, and I understand that COs have a very difficult job. I know that they aren't mind-readers. At the same time, I feel that part of that job is to be precise about the reason for rejection, and also accurate based upon the type of visa being applied for. If the CO really meant I think you'll get married and not come back, or I don't think you have enough ties here, or s/he felt that my guy's answer to why was too vague, or I just don't think you should go visit now, s/he should have stated that unequivocally. And it would provide a very concrete issue to address for the next interview. However, if the CO really did state exactly what s/he meant in the denial, the advice to apply for a K1 in lieu of a visitor visa is downright incorrect. K1 are not visitor visas, they are not easily obtained. Applicants have to sign statements of intent to marry within 90 days. And, there is a limit on the number of K1 visas that can be obtained without a waiver. Plus, that amounts to abusing the K1 system, and makes it difficult for other people to obtain K1 visas.

Thank you for listening to my rant, and I promise I'm finished now. And it's not just sour grapes because of a denial, it's the stated reason behind it. I just wish that there were some sort of avenue to appeal visitor visa denials, especially when the denial reason (based solely upon what the CO stated during the interview) amounts to the CO not understanding the appropriate use of a K1 visa.

Thanks again.

At the risk of more rants (which are not a bad thing, IMO -- helps us all to be able to release), the CO did, in fact, give a concrete reason for the denial -- the section of the law under which it was denied (214b) is the reason the visa was denied. By denying under that section, the CO was truly communicating that -- in the CO's view -- the applicant did not demonstrate enough strong ties that would ensure they would leave the US and return home. The comment re the K1 was, I think, meant to be a helpful indictor of why the CO questioned the immigrant intent of the applicant, not an indication that he applied for the wrong visa -- since the CO thought he was an intending immigrant (hence the 214b refusal), he/she was indicating a visa path that would approved and allow your fiancé to go to the US. Just wanted to show another way of looking at it -- even though I know it won't help your sadness at the visa being denied.