Complicated REF, PLEASE HELP

[Roz 1]

Hi there guys.

I am getting into a desperate situation and I have no clue how to proceed.

Me and my wife applied for our Green Card earlier this year through a lawyer.
I am a citizen of Sweden, I was illegally born in Iran because my mom had to escape after the revolution. My name never got registered in the Iranian system, and there' no proof of me being born there. In my Swedish Passport and Swedish Citizen Certificate it says that I was born in Iran. But I have no Iranian documents whatsoever.

At the interview we had the worst nightmare interviewee that seemed to exist to make our life hell but all the marriage questions went well. It seems like USCIS had attempted to reach my lawyer about needing a birth certificate from Iran, now our lawyer kind of messed things up for us by NOT responding and ignoring their letter and we found this out at the interview. The interviewee told us she could deny her case right away, but gave us 84 days to receive the document needed.

Now comes the best and most confusing part of all. The document they need doesn't exist.

She gave me three pages, on the first page she marked this:

"Birth Certificate of beneficiary Rostam-- -- -- and English translation - See attachment from the Foreign Affairs Manual as to birth certificate availability from Iran"

On the second page:

X, Submit a copy of the applicant's foreign birth certificate issued by the appropriate civil authority. If the document is in a language other than English, you must submit a copy of the foreign language document and an English translation.

If the birth certificate is not available, per title 8 Code of Federal Regulations, Section 103.2(b)(2)(ii), you must submit "an original written statement on government letterhead establishing this from the relevant government or other authority. The statement must indicate the reason the record does not exist, and indicate whether similar records for the time and place are available." If your birth certificate is not available, please submit acceptable secondary evidence including but not limited to church or school records listing your parent's names and your date of birth, hospital records of your birth, etc.

See the department of state's foreign affairs manual found online at http://www.state.gov/ for more information on acceptable birth records for people born outside the United States.

Here's what 103.2(b)(2)(ii) say in the title 8 code of federal regulations:

(ii) Demonstrating that a record is not available. Where a record does not exist, the applicant or petitioner must submit an original written statement on government letterhead establishing this from the relevant government or other authority. The statement must indicate the reason the record does not exist, and indicate whether similar records for the time and place are available. However, a certification from an appropriate foreign government that a document does not exist is

not required where the Department of State’s Foreign Affairs Manual indicates this type of document generally does not exist. An applicant or petitioner who has not been able to acquire

the necessary document or statement from the relevant foreign authority may submit evidence that repeated

good faith attempts were made to obtain the required document or statement. However, where USCIS finds that such documents or statements are generally available, it may require that the applicant or petitioner submit the required document or statement.

In the State's Foreign Affairs Manual it says this about Iran and Iranian documents:

Identity certificates (Shenasnameh)
Available. Identity certificates (Shenasnameh) showing the date and place of birth, parents' names, place of residence, and marital history where appropriate, are issued to Iranian nationals in urban centers by the Department of National Registration and Statistics (Edareh Sabt Ahval va Omar) and in rural regions by district (Bakhsh) offices of the Department. These are accepted by the Embassy in lieu of birth certificates for visa purposes. Information contained in these certificates must be evaluated with the understanding that certain data, particularly dates and places, may be inaccurate. No official fee is charged for delivering documents to the applicants. When these documents are requested from abroad, an indefinite waiting period should be expected before a reply is received. Birth or baptismal certificates emanating from ecclesiastic authorities of the church to which non-Moslem applicants belong are frequently of doubtful value. Moslem ecclesiastic authorities in Iran issue no documents to visa applicants.

I underlined the last part because that's what's really confusing me.

I've called the Iranian embassy consulate in washington, they said even getting the Shenasnameh can take up to a year. I have contacted my relatives in Iran for them to help me retrieve a document stating that I don't exist in their system but it all just fails, they wont give out anything. I hired a lawyer in Iran and he's trying as well, but I believe he failed too since I haven't heard back from him.

The Iranian Government wont give me any papers, no secondary evidence or paper stating I dont exist in their system. I'm having my mother writing an affidavit with 2 witnesses stating that I was born in Iran. I know this wont help, but I have no jdea how to make this work, my lawyers almost got me denied and I'm having a hard time trusting them.

What's going to happen? What should I do?

Edited September 11, 2013 by RozZy

[vbtwo 54]

Hmm, don't know what to tell you. From reading the Iran page at State Department, it seems that they would want the Shenasnameh as that is the only official document in Iran or a written statement from them that says that you're not in their records.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Okay, first off. How did you arrive in the US? If VWP then that is rather bad...

Second. How did you obtain Swedish citizenship? I am guessing as a refugee?

Third. How were you born illegally when your mother was Iranian? What stopped her from registering the birth properly?

Fourth. Why on earth didn't your lawyer prepare you for this, and why did he just ignore the RFE? I would fire him and file a complaint with the bar.

Fifth. Do you know how this shenas certificate is created? Could one be created now?

Basically you are going to have to go step by step to show that you tried to get a document but cannot, or that it doesn't exist, and satisfy all of their concerns.

Regarding the underlined statements, sometimes religious records can be used to substantiate a report of birth, like a baptism certificate for christians. That underlined part is saying that you will not be able to obtain or use any religious records for immigration purposes, even if it existed.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Harpa Timsah

[Roz 1]

Okay, first off. How did you arrive in the US? If VWP then that is rather bad...

Second. How did you obtain Swedish citizenship? I am guessing as a refugee?

Third. How were you born illegally when your mother was Iranian? What stopped her from registering the birth properly?

Fourth. Why on earth didn't your lawyer prepare you for this, and why did he just ignore the RFE? I would fire him and file a complaint with the bar.

Fifth. Do you know how this shenas certificate is created? Could one be created now?

Basically you are going to have to go step by step to show that you tried to get a document but cannot, or that it doesn't exist, and satisfy all of their concerns.

Regarding the underlined statements, sometimes religious records can be used to substantiate a report of birth, like a baptism certificate for christians. That underlined part is saying that you will not be able to obtain or use any religious records for immigration purposes, even if it existed.

1. On a student visa (F1) in 2010, I am currently studying.

2. My family arrived as refugees and got citizenship that way,

3, It was after the revolution and my mother was politically active. For her to go in to a hospital or any official place to give birth would have meant being hanged.

4. My lawyer is a stupid idiot!! I can't believe I've payed 3000 dollars for this #######. How do I file a complaint with the bar?

5. The shenasnameh is created in Iran, it's a process that takes 6 months minimum. I've heard people that's been waiting two years to obtain one.

I have another question. So lets say I get the government letter stating that I don't exist in their system. And since there is no secondary evidence would two notarized affidavits from people that witnessed my birth be enough? Like my mother & my uncle?

Thank you guys for the answers.

Edited September 11, 2013 by RozZy

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Okay, so how did you leave Iran? Sneak out? I am guessing you didn't get a passport or something?

So you are saying this shenas thing can be created now? Is there any way to bribe someone to make it go faster? You said that you still had family in Iran?

Affidavits can be used, yes. But you are going to have to make sure that you can't get anything else. You will have to think through everything and really try to prove your case, not just decide it is hard to get. It really has to be impossible.

[Roz 1]

Okay, so how did you leave Iran? Sneak out? I am guessing you didn't get a passport or something?

So you are saying this shenas thing can be created now? Is there any way to bribe someone to make it go faster? You said that you still had family in Iran?

Affidavits can be used, yes. But you are going to have to make sure that you can't get anything else. You will have to think through everything and really try to prove your case, not just decide it is hard to get. It really has to be impossible.

Yes we sneaked out of Iran, I had no passport or papers. my mom did, but she was wanted like everyone else.

The Shenasnameh can be created yes, but it takes over 6 months and there's no way at all to make it go faster. My two cousins and uncle in Iran tried to retrieve this paper from the government inside of Iran, but they didn't give anything.

I'm going to try to call some lawyers in Iran and see if they can do something for me. I'll keep you guys updated.

Edited September 11, 2013 by RozZy

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Yes we sneaked out of Iran, I had no passport or papers. my mom did, but she was wanted like everyone else.

The Shenasnameh can be created yes, but it takes over 6 months and there's no way at all to make it go faster. My two cousins and uncle in Iran tried to retrieve this paper from the government inside of Iran, but they didn't give anything.

I'm going to try to call some lawyers in Iran and see if they can do something for me. I'll keep you guys updated.

Good luck. My feeling that is this shenas thing can be created, then you might have to do it that way. You could reply to the RFE with your affidavits and request an extension or something until you get the document. That should have been done before you applied for AOS, but that lawyer....

Let us know.

[KayDeeCee 4,892]

~ Moved from AOS from Family Based Visas to AOS from Work, Student & Tourist Visas ~

[Roz 1]

We got hold of a lawyer in Iran that's going to fix the paper saying that I don't exist in their registry. After I get that paper, do I need 2 affidavits from relatives? There's no other secondary evidence to get.

[Hypnos 6,576]

Given how close you are to a denial right now I would absolutely include affidavits from people who either witnessed your birth or are otherwise familiar with it.

[Roz 1]

So the lawyer in Iran failed. He just wouldn't do it. This issue has made me almost fail classes and lose hope for life.

I don't know what to do anymore, It's a problem I don't have control over since it needs to be done overseas.

[_me 4]

One thing you should never do is lose hope for life while alive! Stay positive even though it seems impossible.

Does USCIS know your history???? That you were born in Iran and moved to Sweden? Maybe your mom can write an affidavit explaining the reason why

your birth was never recorded and include her Iranian birth certificate or proof of Iran citizenship before migrating to Sweden.

Just a thought and my 2c.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I would get another legal opinion and fire your current lawyer. There may be a way to get an extension on the RFE and get a shenas thing created. You could also try another Iranian lawyer to get a "no record" statement. Don't lose hope. It may take a while but it is not hopeless.

[Roz 1]

I would get another legal opinion and fire your current lawyer. There may be a way to get an extension on the RFE and get a shenas thing created. You could also try another Iranian lawyer to get a "no record" statement. Don't lose hope. It may take a while but it is not hopeless.

I have talked to the Persian embassy, and the shenasnameh is impossible for me to get since I have no records.

I am going to send them proof of that I have been trying to everything to get this document and two sworn affadavit a from relatives, also a letter stating that if there was any record from me being born in Iran we would've gotten found by the Persian regime and executed (my uncle did get executed, and my mother has done several documentaries showing the dangers that existed for her in Iran)

It's the only option, and it states in the law book that if you haw enough evidence that you have tried to obtain the document, you can pass. There is no other way.

[dooger 1]

I am so curious of the outcome of this case...

One thought I had would be to request the documents from your mother's and your asylum application to Sweden. It should reflect your status at the time, and lack of documents when you arrived in Sweden. Obtain official translation and submit along with affidavits.