The cold, hard truth about MENA "husbands"

[sailormoon01 41]

I agree with Sandinista....trying to reason with someone like the OP is folly. Her frequent mentions of her "attractiveness to western men", extensive education, and cultural savvy, are nothing more than a sad, and desperate attempt to set herself above us all, and give herself credibility and authority...a vain grasping attempt to conceal tragic insecurities that are glaringly obvious to everyone but her. "Methinks thou doth profess too much." She is desperate to validate her bad choice, by laying full blame on all MENA men. And anyone who has received one of her delightfully venomous replies, surely can sense that perhaps there is much more to this "tragic" tale, that just a scummy husband who went awol. At first it was the lowlife scammer "sometimes abuser" that left her to live and do business with some old man....then suddenly she was the confident champion who could have stayed with him, but chose to leave him. With each story change I am more confident that the we are not actually getting the real story at all.

I'm sure its enraging have her theory shattered. A theory which I'm sure at one time probably made her feel better, and less foolish. The theory is that "the majority" of MENA relationships are as dysfunctional as hers was. It must be awful to learn that in fact, it was actually your own poor choice that landed you a bad egg, and not be able to blame MENA men in general. Because as long as she came blame the lot of them, then she doesn't have to acknowledge that perhaps she was just foolish, and made a rotten choice for a husband. Misery loves company. And I'm sure our stories, and our wonderful, good MENA husbands & relationships must just irk her to the core....hence the defensive lashing out, and desperate attempts to belittle and discredit everyone who disagrees with her. I think the nature of the OP's replies (and original post to begin with) gives us more insight than anything to the truth behind the words ....if you catch my drift.

My husband left and treated me bad because I did defend myself and stand up for myself. He even offered me that he would come back and gave me all these ultimatums. I am the one who ultimately said "no" because I can do better than a guy who leaves me for some old dude that sexually harassed me. Finally, I was never trying to put myself above anybody in my OP. Anybody with half a brain can understand what I meant about not falling into the typical category of either an older woman, being extremely overweight, or frumpy. I was trying to say that I wasn't the type of woman that didn't have options when it came to men. It is not a theory. There are hundreds of other stories online. They all started off lovely and turned into nightmares, some a year down the line and some 20 years down the line. Research online. Then, go and attack those women the same way you attack me.

[sailormoon01 41]

I agree with Sandinista....trying to reason with someone like the OP is folly. Her frequent mentions of her "attractiveness to western men", extensive education, and cultural savvy, are nothing more than a sad, and desperate attempt to set herself above us all, and give herself credibility and authority...a vain grasping attempt to conceal tragic insecurities that are glaringly obvious to everyone but her. "Methinks thou doth profess too much." She is desperate to validate her bad choice, by laying full blame on all MENA men. And anyone who has received one of her delightfully venomous replies, surely can sense that perhaps there is much more to this "tragic" tale, that just a scummy husband who went awol. At first it was the lowlife scammer "sometimes abuser" that left her to live and do business with some old man....then suddenly she was the confident champion who could have stayed with him, but chose to leave him. With each story change I am more confident that the we are not actually getting the real story at all.

I'm sure its enraging have her theory shattered. A theory which I'm sure at one time probably made her feel better, and less foolish. The theory is that "the majority" of MENA relationships are as dysfunctional as hers was. It must be awful to learn that in fact, it was actually your own poor choice that landed you a bad egg, and not be able to blame MENA men in general. Because as long as she came blame the lot of them, then she doesn't have to acknowledge that perhaps she was just foolish, and made a rotten choice for a husband. Misery loves company. And I'm sure our stories, and our wonderful, good MENA husbands & relationships must just irk her to the core....hence the defensive lashing out, and desperate attempts to belittle and discredit everyone who disagrees with her. I think the nature of the OP's replies (and original post to begin with) gives us more insight than anything to the truth behind the words ....if you catch my drift.

Also, God bless you if you have a positive relationship with a MENA man and if that relationship lasts forever. I, personally would never ever get involved with a MENA man again or any man from outside my ethnic background.

[sailormoon01 41]

It's sweet that so many people have tried to reason with this nonsense, and really telling about how kind and patient so many MENA contributors are. But getting through to the op and their ####### has been Sisyphean since the first page. Convincing one's self that everyone around them is covered in the same ####### they got covered in, or will be soon, to cope with the mess their life has become is certainly easier. And she seems to be having fun with it. I haven't heard such badas$ digs since middle school anyways.

Again, I NEVER once tried to convince anybody on here that their story is the same. You must have insecurities to believe I was implying that. I was referring to my story since OP and then defending MYSELF against the backlash I received when people try to say culture had ZERO to do with it. Culture does define our behaviors and influence us in many ways, whether we want to admit it or not. You have been the most hostile in this entire thread. AGAIN, I NEVER POINTED ANYBODY OUT. I WAS TALKING ABOUT MYSELF AND THE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF OTHER STORIES ONLINE THAT ARE EXTREMELY SIMILAR TO MINE!!!!

[sailormoon01 41]

I went through almost the exact same thing and my husband never laid a hand on me. He was a scammer from minute one and was an expert at hiding it. I believe he comes from a good family but the point remains, many of these men are EXPERTS at what they do and rarely do they operate alone. Typically they are being coached by family and/or friends who teach them how to get done what they want to get done. My husband got his citizenship April 24th, my daughter turned 18 on May 16th and he made a pass at her on May 30th. Needless to say, he was out the door that day. There were no "warning signs" with us. He came from an upper middle class family, was a teacher, never married before and no kids. He turned out to be the scammer supreme. Poll the women you meet on here and in 5 years 90% of the marriages will be non-existent. There's a reason the embassies look at these marriage closely, because most of them are fraudulent.

AMEN! My ex was coached by both friends and family. I also strongly believe that if the guy isn't a bad apple to start off with, he becomes one through other people. I find that MENA men are a lot more easily influenced by friends and family than any other guy would be. Not to say I haven't met Western mamma's boys or guys obsessed with their bros.

[devotedpartners 77]

Dear lady friend,

I'm sorry of your troubles, but speaking from a mans point of view and of a different culture than my wife, I'm very happy to say, I am not one of those many men you speak of. I wish you not think of us MENA men like troubled people with only green cards in our mind. You seem young and a bit immature to come here and speak so terribly about us. Have you considered maybe you are apart of the problem, I personally think you thought you could change him once you got him here with ultimatums and that didn't go so well. Your written communication here is hostile and I only imagine how the two of you communicated when a problem came up if you cannot take the criticism here. Trust me, I learned the hard way here and have tried very hard to learn from my mistakes when speaking. My English is good but I find hard to write how I want to speak here.

I would never ask my wife to do anything like convert to Islam, actually, nothing that she didn't want to experience. We have been together more years than you have college years plus some, so your degrees are not important to me. What is important to me, is that you please don't generalize your sloppy marriage to mine which I adore every day and my soon to be baby girls that I work so hard to make sure they come into this world with love and peace.

I'm a happy peaceful MENA man with love to my wife and family.

[sailormoon01 41]

Dear lady friend,

I'm sorry of your troubles, but speaking from a mans point of view and of a different culture than my wife, I'm very happy to say, I am not one of those many men you speak of. I wish you not think of us MENA men like troubled people with only green cards in our mind. You seem young and a bit immature to come here and speak so terribly about us. Have you considered maybe you are apart of the problem, I personally think you thought you could change him once you got him here with ultimatums and that didn't go so well. Your written communication here is hostile and I only imagine how the two of you communicated when a problem came up if you cannot take the criticism here. Trust me, I learned the hard way here and have tried very hard to learn from my mistakes when speaking. My English is good but I find hard to write how I want to speak here.

I would never ask my wife to do anything like convert to Islam, actually, nothing that she didn't want to experience. We have been together more years than you have college years plus some, so your degrees are not important to me. What is important to me, is that you please don't generalize your sloppy marriage to mine which I adore every day and my soon to be baby girls that I work so hard to make sure they come into this world with love and peace.

I'm a happy peaceful MENA man with love to my wife and family.

I gave him no ultimatums. I know my family and me let this man do what he wanted and we gave him a big house to live in and all the freedom in the world. You are nobody to call somebody else "sloppy" and again, I am one girl in thousands who has had an awful experience with a MENA man. I love how you write that you are sorry for my troubles and then proceed to insult me. A man who only looks for Western women online is out for only a greencard and nothing more. Do some of these men eventually fall in love with their wives? Yes, but their original intent was always to come to the USA. A woman is blind to believe her being an American had NOTHING to do with the attraction. At the end of the day, I am happy to end this nightmare because I realize I deserve a lot more than a man who originally sought me out because of my passport.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Again, I NEVER once tried to convince anybody on here that their story is the same. You must have insecurities to believe I was implying that. I was referring to my story since OP and then defending MYSELF against the backlash I received when people try to say culture had ZERO to do with it. Culture does define our behaviors and influence us in many ways, whether we want to admit it or not. You have been the most hostile in this entire thread. AGAIN, I NEVER POINTED ANYBODY OUT. I WAS TALKING ABOUT MYSELF AND THE HUNDREDS AND THOUSANDS OF OTHER STORIES ONLINE THAT ARE EXTREMELY SIMILAR TO MINE!!!!

Doh, there it is again.

What's funny is that over the years, the very same people you've ranted and railed against in this thread have had countless discussions here about things to look out for in imported fiances and husbands, what signs or red flags could exist in MENA, things that look like American women are being majorly scammed or treated crappy or second rate by MENA people and allllll that, but without all of the ethno-religious baiting bs you flung out here from the very beginning. Whatever points you wanted to make, or experiences you wanted to share were irrevocably tainted by your own ####### you chose to spew all over your posts. Sorry you picked the wrong place for that particular kind of baiting, and had the misfortune of dumping it where some people don't swallow that brand of #######. You might find some better camaraderie on those Daniel Pipes forums. Best of luck!

[sailormoon01 41]

Doh, there it is again.

What's funny is that over the years, the very same people you've ranted and railed against in this thread have had countless discussions here about things to look out for in imported fiances and husbands, what signs or red flags could exist in MENA, things that look like American women are being majorly scammed or treated crappy or second rate by MENA people and allllll that, but without all of the ethno-religious baiting bs you flung out here from the very beginning. Whatever points you wanted to make, or experiences you wanted to share were irrevocably tainted by your own ####### you chose to spew all over your posts. Sorry you picked the wrong place for that particular kind of baiting, and had the misfortune of dumping it where some people don't swallow that brand of #######. You might find some better camaraderie on those Daniel Pipes forums. Best of luck!

I am the furthest thing from an Islamophobe or a racist. I respect all people and I wished every Muslim person I came across a "Ramadan Karim" when Ramadan started a week or more ago. Simply, I am a realist. Only a fool would deny or ignore that there are clear differences between cultures and that no obstacles exist. Ultimately, in many MENA cultures it is very important that the kids follow the father. You can't deny that. Many men marry wives and want them to follow them in every way, including but not limited to religion and political beliefs. Some women are cool with following the husband 100 percent. Many women can't accept this. The ones who stand up for themselves and/or resist from following 100 percent or even question anything about the culture or religion are usually the ones who end up being victims to violence.

[sailormoon01 41]

Doh, there it is again.

What's funny is that over the years, the very same people you've ranted and railed against in this thread have had countless discussions here about things to look out for in imported fiances and husbands, what signs or red flags could exist in MENA, things that look like American women are being majorly scammed or treated crappy or second rate by MENA people and allllll that, but without all of the ethno-religious baiting bs you flung out here from the very beginning. Whatever points you wanted to make, or experiences you wanted to share were irrevocably tainted by your own ####### you chose to spew all over your posts. Sorry you picked the wrong place for that particular kind of baiting, and had the misfortune of dumping it where some people don't swallow that brand of #######. You might find some better camaraderie on those Daniel Pipes forums. Best of luck!

Can you honestly say if women on here left Islam or resisted the religion and/or culture in some way that their husbands would stay with them? However, as I said before, convert or no convert, it doesn't matter. Nobody can change that they grew up as Westerners. Women who grew up as Westerners (with the exception of those from actual MENA backgrounds who grew up in the USA) will never be part of their husband's inner circle in the way a wife from his own background would be.

[sandinista! 1,816]

OMG, wishing people ramadan karim, there's a game changer. I didn't realize we were dealing with someone who hands out ramadan karims. Why didn't you say so from the beginning?! Don't tell me you have one of those "coexist"

stickers on your car too!!

Anytime anyone, Muslim or not, makes a drastic lifestyle change or radical departure from formerly held religious or non religious beliefs there is always going to be a possibility that this departure may be unpalatable to their spouse or SO. If my husband started hanging out in bars or joined a thuggish motorcycle club, I wouldn't stay with him. Why would he be obligated to stick with me if I suddenly, randomly embraced unpalatable to him lifestyle choices and behaviors? It's less a MENA thing than a be yourself from the very beginning with your spouse and don't paint yourself as someone you're not. And neither should either partner expect to change each other in fundamental ways.

I'm missing how your sh1tty husband's behaviors means that no matter what, myself and everyone else here married to guys from MENA who aren't MENA themselves will never be part of their husband's inner circle, whatever that means. Your ####### hasn't kept me and my children from being as close to my husband as his own blood, in every possible way, and I know way too many people here in the exact same situation to believe it is any kind of anomaly. Your getting ####### doesn't mean everyone else got it too.

Edited July 22, 2013 by sandinista!

[sailormoon01 41]

OMG, wishing people ramadan karim, there's a game changer. I didn't realize we were dealing with someone who hands out ramadan karims. Why didn't you say so from the beginning?! Don't tell me you have one of those "coexist"

stickers on your car too!!

Anytime anyone, Muslim or not, makes a drastic lifestyle change or radical departure from formerly held religious or non religious beliefs there is always going to be a possibility that this departure may be unpalatable to their spouse or SO. If my husband started hanging out in bars or joined a thuggish motorcycle club, I wouldn't stay with him. Why would he be obligated to stick with me if I suddenly, randomly embraced unpalatable to him lifestyle choices and behaviors? It's less a MENA thing than a be yourself from the very beginning with your spouse and don't paint yourself as someone you're not. And neither should either partner expect to change each other in fundamental ways.

I'm missing how your sh1tty husband's behaviors means that no matter what, myself and everyone else here married to guys from MENA who aren't MENA themselves will never be part of their husband's inner circle, whatever that means. Your ####### hasn't kept me and my children from being as close to my husband as his own blood, in every possible way, and I know way too many people here in the exact same situation to believe it is any kind of anomaly. Your getting ####### doesn't mean everyone else got it too.

Coexist? LOL, Wow, you need extreme help with your dark sarcasm. Get better soon. I come from a country where there are North Africans everywhere and we never even think about stuff such as someone's religion. I do have a right to my own personal preferences though and to have a partner who respects my beliefs as I respect his. This thread obviously pissed you off and got you where it hurts. True love accepts whoever you are as long as you are not hurting yourself or others. Comparing a thuggish motorcycle club to returning to Christianity or whatever religion the women here were born into? Really?? This might be my last response to you. You must be very young and immature. You are obviously closed minded. Be yourself from the beginning? Did you ever hear about people changing their minds?? Maybe they were themselves from the beginning, but they simply decided to change.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

I will say it again: good men are hard to come by anywhere in the world.

I reiterate it because, OP, you keep insisting that this behavior is typical of men of a certain ethic or religious group. You think that people of this certain ethic or religious group are the most hardened in their beliefs of anyone and that they expect their mates of a different culture to assimilate without question. Your words, my summary. Patriarchy isn't exclusive. Do you know what machismo means? Did you know that in the Dominican Republic men who murder their wives are rarely prosecuted? Do you know it's estimated that a woman is raped every 15 seconds in South Africa?

The things your husband did to you are not exclusive to any ethnicity or race or nationality. I have a particular understanding of this because I am a longtime volunteer with rape crisis centers and battered women's shelters here in Brooklyn. I know women who were abused in ways you can't imagine for most of their lifetimes. One woman comes to mind - every single man who ever entered her life abused her in some way. Her father raped her from age 8 to 15. Her long-time boyfriend beat her every day and when she was pregnant he threw her out a window and fractured her hip. Her brother got her oldest daughter addicted to crack. Her more recent husband beats her, cheats on her, and ruined her credit. She was 45 years old before she started to reclaim her life for herself. Her background or her abusers' backgrounds are irrelevant though for the record they are varied. She could have let the anguish and anger swallow her whole but she didn't. She mentors younger women nowadays and tries to teach them about healthy relationships and self-esteem. She teaches taking responsibility and control rather than wallow in victimhood. You can never expect abusers to change - you're the one that has to.

Tangent aside... You may think you are a catch objectively but I have my doubts about your self-confidence. Abusive relationships can happen to anyone and don't think badly about yourself for falling prey to one. Abusers cannot be pigeonholed into categories like ethnicity, religion, class, creed or sexuality because they come from all walks of life. You should really take that to heart in the future, so that you don't become a victim again. Wasting this time over the last few days deriding all Arab or Muslim guys is doing you a disservice because it's not helping you move forward. Your weekend could have been better spent doing something for yourself. Seek support in getting through your divorce so that the anger doesn't consume you. Life goes on and you have a right to get back on track.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan

[sailormoon01 41]

Coexist? LOL, Wow, you need extreme help with your dark sarcasm. Get better soon. I come from a country where there are North Africans everywhere and we never even think about stuff such as someone's religion. I do have a right to my own personal preferences though and to have a partner who respects my beliefs as I respect his. This thread obviously pissed you off and got you where it hurts. True love accepts whoever you are as long as you are not hurting yourself or others. Comparing a thuggish motorcycle club to returning to Christianity or whatever religion the women here were born into? Really?? This might be my last response to you. You must be very young and immature. You are obviously closed minded. Be yourself from the beginning? Did you ever hear about people changing their minds?? Maybe they were themselves from the beginning, but they simply decided to change.

The fact that you have to swear is also really sad. I haven't swore once. You are truly an angry young woman unable to accept anybody with a different opinion from your own.

[sailormoon01 41]

I will say it again: good men are hard to come by anywhere in the world.

I reiterate it because, OP, you keep insisting that this behavior is typical of men of a certain ethic or religious group. You think that people of this certain ethic or religious group are the most hardened in their beliefs of anyone and that they expect their mates of a different culture to assimilate without question. Your words, my summary.

The things your husband did to you are not exclusive to any ethnicity or race or nationality. I have a particular understanding of this because I am a longtime volunteer with rape crisis centers and battered women's shelters here in Brooklyn. I know women who were abused in ways you can't imagine for most of their lifetimes. One woman comes to mind - every single man who ever entered her life abused her in some way. Her father raped her from age 8 to 15. Her long-time boyfriend beat her every day and when she was pregnant he threw her out a window and fractured her hip. Her brother got her oldest daughter addicted to crack. Her more recent husband beats her, cheats on her, and ruined her credit. She was 45 years old before she started to reclaim her life for herself. Her background or her abusers' backgrounds are irrelevant though for the record they are varied. She could have let the anguish and anger swallow her whole but she didn't. She mentors younger women nowadays and tries to teach them about healthy relationships and self-esteem. She teaches taking responsibility and control rather than wallow in victimhood. You can never expect abusers to change - you're the one that has to.

Tangent aside... You may think you are a catch objectively but I have my doubts about your self-confidence. Abusive relationships can happen to anyone and don't think badly about yourself for falling prey to one. Abusers cannot be pigeonholed into categories like ethnicity, religion, class, creed or sexuality because they come from all walks of life. You should really take that to heart in the future, so that you don't become a victim again. Wasting this time over the last few days deriding all Arab or Muslim guys is doing you a disservice because it's not helping you move forward. Your weekend could have been better spent doing something for yourself. Seek support in getting through your divorce so that the anger doesn't consume you. Life goes on and you have a right to get back on track.

I'm not angry at all. I just don't appreciate the ignorant comments and attacks on my character. I am actually very content at this point and excited to be starting my single life again. I was sad and angry this winter. Now, I am completely over it and I can talk to him on the phone civilly without even caring. The thing is I AM INDIFFERENT NOW!! You and the other women on here obviously have self esteem issues to attack anybody that says anything about MENA men. If you are comfortable in your relationships, why care what anybody else has to say or why read the negative stories??? I know because I used to do the same before my relationship fell apart. I would attack every woman who had a negative story or tried to warn me. I used to say the same would never happen to me and that the bad relationship was her fault.

[Sarah Elle-Même 660]

I'm not angry at all. I just don't appreciate the ignorant comments and attacks on my character. I am actually very content at this point and excited to be starting my single life again. I was sad and angry this winter. Now, I am completely over it and I can talk to him on the phone civilly without even caring. The thing is I AM INDIFFERENT NOW!! You and the other women on here obviously have self esteem issues to attack anybody that says anything about MENA men. If you are comfortable in your relationships, why care what anybody else has to say or why read the negative stories??? I know because I used to do the same before my relationship fell apart. I would attack every woman who had a negative story or tried to warn me. I used to say the same would never happen to me and that the bad relationship was her fault.

The fact that you spent the whole weekend bickering back and forth is a pretty clear sign you are far from indifferent. I am confident in my relationship and confident it won't end up like yours. But by saying that I have a feeling you'll come back and say "just you wait it WILL happen to all of YOU" or something like you know my fiancé or the other members' husbands personally. You don't. In fact you never did because your husband is a true POS. Cut off that parasitic necrotic tissue that's still hanging onto you for good and go have yourself a better life.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Sarah and Adnan