Questions about Getting Married

[Villanelle 4,121]

Okay maybe Im misunderstanding something, but an Egyptian Embassy is not the US. I understand its located in the US, but its technically Egypt.

The K1 visa gives your Fiance permission to come to the US and get married in the US. Your marriage has to take place in the US, not in Egypt.

The way I see it is, your fiance would come to the US on the K1, you would then get married in the embassy. You would have a marriage certificate from Egypt. You would then have to file a CR1 spousal visa because you do not meet the criteria for filing the K1(you did not get married in the US with in 90 days)

Youll have to pay the additional fee of however much it is file the 130 + the fee for the 485

Youre also in a bit of murky waters because to get the K1 you have to claim you have intent to come to the US and marry in the US and you kind of dont. You have intent to come to the US and get married on foreign soil, not US soil, as you plan on marrying in an embassy (foreign soil). If you plan on marrying outside the US you need spousal visas to bring a spouse over.

[visaqueries 111]

Thank you for that information. I really appreciate it. I'm sure I knew at one point that those embassies weren't really part of our country, but somehow along the way, I'd forgotten that.

Aaron2020, I see you mentioned that as well. I must have posted the post that appears directly under yours at the same time. I just now saw your original post which states the same thing. So, thanks to both of you.

Edited February 3, 2013 by visaqueries

[visaqueries 111]

http://www.debatepolitics.com/general-political-discussion/136560-us-embassies-and-consulates-not-american-soil.html

http://dansdigitaldive.com/web/archives/605

"Contrary to popular belief, diplomatic missions do not enjoy full extraterritorial status and are not sovereign territory of the represented state.[5][6] Rather, the premises of diplomatic missions remain under the jurisdiction of the host state while being afforded special privileges (such as immunity from most local laws) by the Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations."

Okay, so just because I'm curious, I've started to look it up. Including Wikipedia (I know, not the most reliable), and these two sites, it says Embassies are not foreign soil...I'm not trying to quibble. I'm really just trying to find things out. It's the researcher in me...

Honestly, I'm just trying to be thorough in my studies. I hope to be an expert soon.

Capri, the intent is not necessarily to get married at an Embassy. If possible, we might. If it's not acceptable, we won't. My intent is to find out all the information, so we can find middle ground.

[together4evr 360]

I looked at the chicago Egyptian Embassy and it is also in Arabic. But now I am really curious as to what happens and if it is an American or Egyptian marriage

Can any Arabic friends translate all this? I did write the Chicago embassy and ask them to translate it and to put the site in English. It has a choice at the top english or arabic and even in English it is written in arabic

Marriage for Egyptians Abroad

زواج المصريين بالخارج والتصادق علي زواج تم أمام جهات غير مصرية من بين الأعمال القنصلية التى يتم تقديمها للجالية باتمام عقود زواجهم وفقا للناحية الشرعية والقانونية، حيث يمكن اجراء عقود الزواج بالقسم القنصلى واستخراج قسائم الزواج المصرية للزوجين، أو التصادق على زواجهم اذا كان قد سبق أن تم بواسطة جهات دينية مختصة أو بواسطة السلطات المحلية وهو ما يعنى اعطاء ذلك الزواج الصفة الرسمية وفقا لقوانين جمهورية مصر العربية ، وذلك على النحو التالى :

يتم عقد الزواج بالقسم القنصلى أو التصادق عليه اذا كان الزوجين مسلمين مصريين، أو مسلمين أحدهما مصرى ، أو مسلم مصرى وكتابية مصرية أو اجنبية .

أما بالنسبة للمصريين المسيحيين فانه لكى ينعقد الزواج لابد أن يقوم رجل الدين المختص

( الكاهن ) بالكنيسة باجراء الطقوس والصلاة الخاصة بذلك، وعليه فلا تقوم القنصلية بزواج

المصريين المسيحيين بالخارج ، ولكنها تقوم بالتصادق علي وثائق زواجهم التي تمت عن طريق الكنيسة أو السلطات المحلية.

الزواج بالنسبة للمسلمين :

عقد الزواج هو تسجيل اتفاق إرادة ذكر وأنثي مكتملين للشروط الشرعية والمدنية علي إنشاء علاقة زوجية بينهما ولاتمام ذلك يجب توافر الشروط التالية :

1. الأهلية :

- لا يقل سن الزوج عن 18 عاما والزوجة عن18 عاما.

- لا يصح زواج المجنون والمعتوه والسكران والمخدر والمكره .

2. خلو الزوجين من الموانع الشرعية والقانونية حيث:

- لا يجوز زواج المسلمة من غير المسلم.

- لا يجوز زواج المسلم من مشركة، ولكن يجوز له الزواج من الكتابية التي تدين بالمسيحية أو اليهودية.

- لا يجوز زواج المسلم من المرتدة ( وهي المسلمة التي ارتدت عن دين الإسلام ).

- لا يجوز زواج المرأة المسلمة إلا من المسلم.

- ألا تكون المرأة محرمة علي الرجل تحريما مؤبدا ( كالأخت والعمة والخالة وبنات الأخ وبنات الأخت وزوجة الأب وزوجة الابن ) ، أو تحريما مؤقتا، الا اذا زال سبب التحريم (كالزواج من شقيقة الزوجة فلا يجوز شرعا الا بعد وفاة الزوجة او طلاقها وانقضاء عدتها).

- يشترط لتوثيق عقد الزواج أن يتم الفحص الطبى للراغبين فى الزواج للتحقق من خلوهما من الأمراض التى تؤثر على حياة أو صحة كل منهما أو على الزواج للتحقق من خلوهما من الأمراض التى تؤثر على حياة صحة كل منهما أو على صحة نسلهما.

3. توفر الايجاب والقبول :

وذلك بعرض احد الطرفين الزواج من الاخر وقبول الطرف الاخر الزواج من الطرف الذى عرض عليه.

4.عدم تحديد مدة معينة أو أجل محدد يتم بعده إنهاء الزواج لأن عقد الزواج يفترض أنه عقد مؤبد ، هذا ويراعى عند ابرام عقود الزواج بعض الأمور أهمها :

- عند زواج المصرية من أجنبي يجب ألا يزيد فارق السن بينهما عن 25 عاما.

- يتضمن العقد اتفاق الطرفين علي صداق يبين العاجل منه والاجل ، أما إذا كان الصداق مسمي بينهما فلا تذكر قيمة الصداق أو تفاصيله .

- لا يجوز توثيق عقد زواج المطلقة إلا بعد الاطلاع علي إشهاد الطلاق أو حكم نهائي بالطلاق لإمكان التحقق من وقوع الطلاق وانقضاء فترة العدة.

- لا يجوز توثيق عقد زواج الأرملة إلا بعد الاطلاع علي عقد زواجها السابق وشهادة وفاة الزوج.

علي الزوج أن يقر في وثيقة الزواج بحالته الاجتماعية، فإذا كان متزوجا فعليه أن يبين في الإقرار اسم الزوجة أو الزوجات اللاتي في عصمته ومحال إقامتهن حيث تقوم القنصلية بإخطارهن بالزواج.

يمكن للزوجين الاتفاق علي شروط خاصة بينهما يتم تسجيلها بعقد الزواج مثل ( الاتفاق علي عدم الاقتران بزوجة أخري إلا بإذن كتابي من الزوجة ، أو الاتفاق علي تفويض الزوجة في تطليق نفسها ) أو أي اتفاق اخر يرتضيه الزوجين بشرط ألا يحل حراما أو يحرم حلالا.

الاجراءات والمستندات اللازمة لإتمام الزواج بالقنصلية أو التصادق عليه بالقسم القنصلى:

يتم الاتصال لترتيب موعد مقدما لعقد الزواج أو التصادق على زواج .

حضور كلا الزوجين معا وشاهدين على الزواج.

تقديم جوازي السفر لكل منهما والشاهدين أيضا

عدد 5 صور فوتوغرافية حديثة مقاس 4 في 6 لكل من الزوج والزوجة ( مثل صور جوازات السفر).

اصل وثيقة الزواج المحلية في حالة التصادق علي الزواج.

يتم إصدار وثيقة الزواج من عدد 4 نسخ تسلم نسخة للزوج ، وتسلم نسخة للزوجة ، وترسل نسخة لمصلحة الأحوال المدنية بالقاهرة لتسجيل واقعة الزواج بسجل المركز الرئيسى للأحوال المدنية بالعباسية للتسجيل مدنيا .

بعد حوالى 6 الى 8 أسابيع تصل الافادة برقم التسجيل حيث يتم تدوينها على وثائق الزواج المحررة .

الرسوم المطلوبة :

رسوم إشهاد الزواج مبلغ 80 دولار إذا كان مبلغ الصداق مسمى بينهما ( أى متفق عليه بينهما ولا يرغبان فى الافصاح عن قيمته ).

اذا كان الصداق مسمى ( أى محدد القيمة اجله وعاجله ) تكـون الرســوم ( 50 دولار + 1.5 % على المائة دولار الأولى من قيمة الصداق + 2 % من قيمة باقى الصداق ) مع ملاحظة أنه اذا كانت قيمة الصداق محددة بالجنيه المصرى فيتم حساب الرسوم بالدولار بعد معادلة قيمة الصداق المحددة بالجنيه وتحويلها الى دولار ).

تسدد الرسوم نقدا أو بشيك مقبول الدفع Money Order بأسم القنصلية .

Consul General Welcome Note

Welcome to the website of the Egyptian Consulate General in Chicago. We hope you will find what you need in this website.We are passionate about our work in this extraordinary country, and determined to do all we can to promote Egypt’s interests in the United States.

We aim to serve the Egyptian Community, increase trade between Egypt and the United States, and to support Egyptian businesses that want to trade or invest jointly for the benefit of both sides. The opportunities for expanded partnerships are limitless.

I hope that this site will provide an opportunity for visitors to learn about Egypt’s present political and economic developments as well as its magnificent history and culture.

Do not hesitate to contact our Consular team if you need advice or assistance. We value your feedback and welcome your comments. Please feel free to get in touch with us for any questions, queries or suggestions you may have.

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[aaron2020 11,651]

As for the man in Juarez, he had a lot of issues I don't have. I have a valid passport (which isn't really applicable in this case). I am applying for a K-1 Visa and waiting for the entire process to be complete before I try to get my foreign fiance into the country (We are not trying to get my fiance inside the borders of the USA by obtaining a shopping visa). My fiance has not received any kind of ban, and I don't think that if we decided to marry at a Consulate/Embassy inside the borders of the United States, where he will legally be allowed to be, he will receive a 5 year ban (I don't believe marrying at a Consulate/Embassy constitutes breaking any laws in the US).

All I'm asking of this forum is, "Does anyone have any experience with this kind of situation?" Gathering research...not trying to do anything more than that.

I understand that you are gathering info before you act. I wish more people what you are doing now. Too often on this forum you run into people who thought they could do something without doin research ahead if time and think they were safe - like attempt to drive across the border after a visa denial.

I was not referring to the issues when I mentioned the Juarez hotel manager mess. I was referring to the qualification of the person giving advice. A foreign consular official is not going to be an expert on US immigration law.

It would be a real pisser if you found nothing saying that a marriage at a foreign embassy does not meet the K-1 requirement to marry in the US, get marry at the Egyptian Embassy where you would not receive a US marriage certificate, try to adjust, and then get a denial for not having a US marriage certificate.

Edited February 3, 2013 by aaron2020

[Peace.... 281]

Just curious, you said you were christian. Can I ask why you cannot be married in a mosque? Im christian and I married in a mosque.

[visaqueries 111]

I agree that we shouldn't trust the opinions of just one foreign consular representative. And thanks for appreciating my research. I'm doing all I can to have good information that will help us make the best decision.

Yes, I know it seems crazy to most that we might not take the easy route. However, I love my fiance very much, and if this is something he'd like to do, I'm willing to find out more information. He is making huge sacrifices to leave his country. Yes, it's Egypt--a country with a lot of turmoil--but he is fiercely patriotic. I told him before we began to date seriously that there were two things he had to know about me. One was I would probably never become a Muslim and number two was I could never permanently live in Egypt. His response was, "If those are the two things I must sacrifice to live my life with you, I will do it." All of us on this site are making huge sacrifices on behalf of our loved ones every day. I am willing to make it a little more difficult if needed, so I can ease the mind of my (future) husband. So, I will continue the research and find all I can. Who knows? We might end up going to the courthouse down the street. If so, I just want it to be something that will make both of us happy.

[Villanelle 4,121]

Im not really sure about the whole 'the embassy itself is not foreign soil', perhaps thats true but its irrelevant. A marriage performed in an embassy would have taken place in Egypt. From the text above it says they send a copy and register the marriage in Cairo. Your marriage is going to be recorded in Cairo. Your certified marriage certificate is going to be from Egypt. Your marriage took place outside of the US.

That does not meet the conditions of the K1.

Thats why I said youre kind of in murky waters. You can say its not your intent. Your intent is to come to the US and get married here. That qualifies you for the K1. Once here if you choose to marry in an embassy in the US, you will see when you get the marriage certificate it does not qualify you to file for AOS with the 797 approval notice from the K1 as the marriage certificate states you were married in Egypt, its recorded in Egypt, not the US. You will have to file for a CR1 with your spouse in the US. So youll have to pay to file the 130 and the 485.

Your other choice would be, depending on how far you are into the K1 process, or if you are sure you want to marry in the embassy, have your fiancee come on a travel visa and marry in an embassy, or go to Egypt and marry there, and file the overseas CR1.

[visaqueries 111]

Just curious, you said you were christian. Can I ask why you cannot be married in a mosque? Im christian and I married in a mosque.

I am the daughter, sister, niece, granddaughter, and cousin to many ministers within the Christian faith. There is something about honoring your family and your spouse that rings with me. If I can do both, then I will make every effort to do it.

[Peace.... 281]

1359926554[/url]' post='5957637']

I am the daughter, sister, niece, granddaughter, and cousin to many ministers within the Christian faith. There is something about honoring your family and your spouse that rings with me. If I can do both, then I will make every effort to do it.

I too come from a strong christian family but they all understand one thing, and that is we all believe in the same God no matter where we attend our christian services, so marrying in a mosque should not be the issue with a christian family unless of course they have issues of you marrying a muslim to begin with.

Two years ago tomorrow,, I married my loving husband at the mosque by an Imam and witnesses. The Imam spoke of marriage in great detail and the importance of marriage. Our marriage is valid, and its also recognized in Morocco due to the fact we were married by a muslim and not the courthouse.

Best of luck...

Edited February 3, 2013 by foreverwaiting

[together4evr 360]

I too come from a strong christian family but they all understand one thing, and that is we all believe in the same God no matter where we attend our christian services, so marrying in a mosque should not be the issue with a christian family unless of course they have issues of you marrying a muslim to begin with.

Two years ago tomorrow,, I married my loving husband at the mosque by an Imam and witnesses. The Imam spoke of marriage in great detail and the importance of marriage. Our marriage is valid, and its also recognized in Morocco due to the fact we were married by a muslim and not the courthouse.

Best of luck...

Happy anniversary!!!

[Peace.... 281]

1359927762[/url]' post='5957656']

Happy anniversary!!!

THANK YOUUUUUU...

[visaqueries 111]

Your other choice would be, depending on how far you are into the K1 process, or if you are sure you want to marry in the embassy, have your fiancee come on a travel visa and marry in an embassy, or go to Egypt and marry there, and file the overseas CR1.

Now, this is assuming that they even do weddings at the Embassy/Consulate...

Could I first go to the courthouse, get married then turn around and fly to the Consulate/Embassy closest to my residence and get married there? Or, could the Egyptian Embassy issue two certificates--one to file in Cairo and one to file in the US?

Of course, these are the things I don't know...are marriages like I'm talking about even performed at an Embassy/Consulate? If not, problem solved...Do the people who perform these supposed weddings have dual certifications--meaning are they able to marry people both out in the public US sector and in the Embassy/Consulate sector? If yes, can this qualify for an American wedding?

Do people in this forum who are married to Egyptian citizens while living in the US also file their marriages in Egypt? I have mentioned before that I've never been married, so I really don't know anything about documenting a marriage. I do notice that there are people who have several marriages--some US side then also in Egypt (not sure if that's for all the families to see or to fulfill some other rule).

[visaqueries 111]

I too come from a strong christian family but they all understand one thing, and that is we all believe in the same God no matter where we attend our christian services, so marrying in a mosque should not be the issue with a christian family unless of course they have issues of you marrying a muslim to begin with.

Two years ago tomorrow,, I married my loving husband at the mosque by an Imam and witnesses. The Imam spoke of marriage in great detail and the importance of marriage. Our marriage is valid, and its also recognized in Morocco due to the fact we were married by a muslim and not the courthouse.

Best of luck...

What an exciting celebration you have! Happy anniversary.

[sandinista! 1,816]

I too come from a strong christian family but they all understand one thing, and that is we all believe in the same God no matter where we attend our christian services, so marrying in a mosque should not be the issue with a christian family unless of course they have issues of you marrying a muslim to begin with.

Two years ago tomorrow,, I married my loving husband at the mosque by an Imam and witnesses. The Imam spoke of marriage in great detail and the importance of marriage. Our marriage is valid, and its also recognized in Morocco due to the fact we were married by a muslim and not the courthouse.

Best of luck...

There are plenty of Christian religious issues that can arise from a marriage taking place in a masjid, involving a Christian that have nothing to do with "issues of you marrying a Muslim". What squares away for you religiously might not for someone else. What you did is certainly not orthodox by any means, religiously. No one is hassling you about that, and they shouldn't, but it's weird the way you're dogging her here.