RFE - Won't accept AZ marriage record

[Laure&Colin 560]

Yes, that's very clear now and that along with sending double sided ANYTHING was your first mistake. These folks build their own file, two hole punched and secured at the top. They probably didn't see the back of the document because they didn't want to stand on their head to do so.

True that, I got a bunch of documents I sent with the original I130 petition at the interview, and they all had 2 holes on top and numbers printed on the side. For anything printed front and back, the back could be "lost".

[StormHeraldEDM 5]

Yes, that's very clear now and that along with sending double sided ANYTHING was your first mistake. These folks build their own file, two hole punched and secured at the top. They probably didn't see the back of the document because they didn't want to stand on their head to do so. I would send a photocopy of both sides, with an explanation that Pima County has their own procedures. Perhaps you can find something online that officially explains this, if the county won't provide something on their own letterhead for you.

For the education of others, NEVER send two sided documents, copies or forms to USCIS.

I suppose that is what I get for listening to a vetted immigration attorney, who I had to pay $500 to consult with and wait 2 months to get an appointment. He stated, " NEVER send photocopies, always send the original instrument, or you will get an RFE". So I sent the originals...and still got one.

For what it's worth, I think the idea that USCIS would prefer to have a copy rather than the real thing, just so everything is on single sided pages....is daft. What kind of sense does that make?? Any one can doctor a photocopy - the presence of the raised seal PROVES that is is the genuine article. It would be easy to provide false proof by simply making multiple copies of the rear (with the raised seal only, since it does not reference the document specifically, just the date and name of the clerk), and attach that to a copy of any document of my choice. Voila! Instant proof. Having the physical raised seal should remove any doubt - not cause more.

[pushbrk 13,422]

I suppose that is what I get for listening to a vetted immigration attorney, who I had to pay $500 to consult with and wait 2 months to get an appointment. He stated, " NEVER send photocopies, always send the original instrument, or you will get an RFE". So I sent the originals...and still got one.

For what it's worth, I think the idea that USCIS would prefer to have a copy rather than the real thing, just so everything is on single sided pages....is daft. What kind of sense does that make?? Any one can doctor a photocopy - the presence of the raised seal PROVES that is is the genuine article. It would be easy to provide false proof by simply making multiple copies of the rear (with the raised seal only, since it does not reference the document specifically, just the date and name of the clerk), and attach that to a copy of any document of my choice. Voila! Instant proof. Having the physical raised seal should remove any doubt - not cause more.

A lot about this process seems daft. A lot of worker bees in government agencies ARE daft or lazy. What makes sense is to adapt YOUR behavior to make it as simple as possible for them to efficiently do their job. Looking at the back of a sheet of paper bound in a two hole punched government file is far from "easy".

Did your attorney not realize that the actual certified copy of the marriage certificate was going to be needed at the NVC stage?

Originals are REQUIRED for the actual government forms but not at the USCIS stage for supporting documentation. Did you read the I-130 instructions yourself?

[StormHeraldEDM 5]

A lot about this process seems daft. A lot of worker bees in government agencies ARE daft or lazy. What makes sense is to adapt YOUR behavior to make it as simple as possible for them to efficiently do their job. Looking at the back of a sheet of paper bound in a two hole punched government file is far from "easy".

Did your attorney not realize that the actual certified copy of the marriage certificate was going to be needed at the NVC stage?

Originals are REQUIRED for the actual government forms but not at the USCIS stage for supporting documentation. Did you read the I-130 instructions yourself?

I did read the packet and compiled it myself. I took the entire petition to the attorney for a look-through before sending it off, which is when he made me pull out all of my carefully-collated photocopies and throw them away, and go obtain original certified copies for each document instead - 2 sets. One to go with the petition, and one for use later in the process - I still have the second set of originals, ready to go.

So the question is - should I send them ANOTHER original...AND a set of single-sided photocopies of said original, in addition to the letter explaining the situation?

[sheeshkabelle 153]

I did read the packet and compiled it myself. I took the entire petition to the attorney for a look-through before sending it off, which is when he made me pull out all of my carefully-collated photocopies and throw them away, and go obtain original certified copies for each document instead - 2 sets. One to go with the petition, and one for use later in the process - I still have the second set of originals, ready to go.

So the question is - should I send them ANOTHER original...AND a set of single-sided photocopies of said original, in addition to the letter explaining the situation?

Immigration attorneys are daft. I paid one over 2grand for a K-1 Visa that he royally screwed up and ended up being rejected.

Never ever ever ever ever send original documents to USCIS. On the USCIS web page on how to file for family bases visas even states so.

To complete the process, the petitioner must submit:

Form I-130 (signed with proper fee), with all required documentation, including:

Two completed and signed G-325A forms (one for you and one for your spouse)

Send copies of the following documents, unless we ask for an original

A copy of your civil marriage certificate

A copy of all divorce decrees, death certificates, or annulment decrees that demonstrate that all previous marriages entered into by you and/or your spouse were terminated

Passport style photos of you and your spouse (see Form I-130 instructions for photo requirements)

Evidence of all legal name changes for you and/or your spouse (may include marriage certificates, divorce decrees, court judgment of name change, adoption decrees, etc.)

If you are a U.S. citizen, you must demonstrate your status with:

A copy of your valid U.S. passport OR

A copy of your U.S. birth certificate OR

A copy of Consular Report of Birth Abroad OR

A copy of your naturalization certificate OR

A copy of your certificate of citizenship

[pushbrk 13,422]

I did read the packet and compiled it myself. I took the entire petition to the attorney for a look-through before sending it off, which is when he made me pull out all of my carefully-collated photocopies and throw them away, and go obtain original certified copies for each document instead - 2 sets. One to go with the petition, and one for use later in the process - I still have the second set of originals, ready to go.

So the question is - should I send them ANOTHER original...AND a set of single-sided photocopies of said original, in addition to the letter explaining the situation?

I asked if you read the I-130 instructions. Send a photocopy of each side of the certified copy. Use two sheets of paper. Then, add an explanation from the county or one of your own if the county won't provide one or one is not available online.

[AniROC 1]

Hi Stormie, I want to avoid this RFE, I'm filling out my paperwork, and my certified copy of Record of Marriage has only a seal on the back with date and signature from the clerck's maricopa county, no book number or other information. At the end after you received your RFE What did you do with that problem? Did you sent them both sides separates copies? (sorry for my english, I'm still learning).

Ok, so we got the email on March 27th, and today I got the actual RFE form in the mail. It says:

"Submit a legible copy of the marriage certificate. The certificate must indicate that after the marriage ceremoney, it was registered or recorded by the county, state or province. The marriage certificate submitted does not show evidence of being civilly registered with the county clerk. The document must show the page and book numbers in which the event was recorded".

So what I sent them originally was a CERTIFIED COPY (that cost me $20 at the Pima County Courthouse in Tucson, Arizona) of our Record of Marriage, which the clerk stated was the only binding marriage certificate that this county uses. Physically, it is a copy of the certificate that was signed by myself, spouse, witnesses, and officiant at the time of the ceremony. It has the raised, imprinted Pima County seal on the rear of the document, with the deputy clerk's signature. It has the date and the marriage licence number, which the clerk informed me was the only thing Pima County uses to identify marriage certificates - they do not use book/page/file numbers, as there is no books such files are recorded in!

I spent 2 hours and 21 minutes back in the Superior Court building this evening, with my paperwork from USCIS in hand....and was told by the clerk supervisor there is nothing they can do for me, and that she did not believe that USCIS would refuse to accept a CERTIFIED COPY of a legal document. I asked if she could write a letter explaining this, and she said, "If this is good enough for the IRS, it is good enough for Homeland Security. I have nothing else I can do for you".

I am sitting here IN TEARS! over this. What do I do?? I've got 30 days to respond to the RFE, I can't exactly send them back the exact same document that the refused in the first place!

Any advice is appreciated.

-Stormie.

[MattNZ2014 0]

In our case it was very similar, we paid for the marriage certificate, but it wasn't accepted so we had to get it notarized which involved sending the document away and coming back with a special seal/stamp on it.....albeit this is New Zealand. Maybe they are expecting u to do a similar thing?

[TBoneTX 47,032]

The OP hasn't logged on to VJ for 18 months, and this 2.5-year-old thread will be closed. The answers that the recent poster asks about are contained in the thread (send both sides, separate copies).