RFE - Won't accept AZ marriage record

[StormHeraldEDM 5]

Ok, so we got the email on March 27th, and today I got the actual RFE form in the mail. It says:

"Submit a legible copy of the marriage certificate. The certificate must indicate that after the marriage ceremoney, it was registered or recorded by the county, state or province. The marriage certificate submitted does not show evidence of being civilly registered with the county clerk. The document must show the page and book numbers in which the event was recorded".

So what I sent them originally was a CERTIFIED COPY (that cost me $20 at the Pima County Courthouse in Tucson, Arizona) of our Record of Marriage, which the clerk stated was the only binding marriage certificate that this county uses. Physically, it is a copy of the certificate that was signed by myself, spouse, witnesses, and officiant at the time of the ceremony. It has the raised, imprinted Pima County seal on the rear of the document, with the deputy clerk's signature. It has the date and the marriage licence number, which the clerk informed me was the only thing Pima County uses to identify marriage certificates - they do not use book/page/file numbers, as there is no books such files are recorded in!

I spent 2 hours and 21 minutes back in the Superior Court building this evening, with my paperwork from USCIS in hand....and was told by the clerk supervisor there is nothing they can do for me, and that she did not believe that USCIS would refuse to accept a CERTIFIED COPY of a legal document. I asked if she could write a letter explaining this, and she said, "If this is good enough for the IRS, it is good enough for Homeland Security. I have nothing else I can do for you".

I am sitting here IN TEARS! over this. What do I do?? I've got 30 days to respond to the RFE, I can't exactly send them back the exact same document that the refused in the first place!

Any advice is appreciated.

-Stormie.

[July15 4]

Hi, I had the same problem at the NVC stage. They did not want to accept my marriage certificate because it was not from the registrar of marriages but from the courthouse's SUB-registrar. Anyway, I had the clerk from the courthouse write a note saying that the town (in India) where I married does not have a registrar of marriages and that our marriage is legally valid, signed, dated and stamped by the clerk. I also included a letter/statement explaining why the marriage certificate could not be obtained from the registrar and 2 sworn affidavits (one from my mom and one from my husband's dad) per the state website we could include the affidavits (for India) if the marriage wasn't oficially registered -it was, but I still included the sworn affidavits to be on the safe side.

I recommend that you ask the clerk to write a note stating what you just wrote here...you can even type it and hand it over to them, so she/he can verify the fact, sign it and stamp it. They should do that...they have to do it. The IRS and USCIS are TWO Different agencies and do NOT care what the other is doing.

Wish you Luck.

[Darnell 8,478]

I suggest you write a letter on the county's letterhead, explaining exactly what you've written here,

and get the head man with the county office to sign it, then send it off in answer to the RFE.

IMO, doing the work yerself, on writing the letter, lessens the fear of 'extra work' by the county folk. They hate extra work, always.

[pushbrk 12,975]

Ok, so we got the email on March 27th, and today I got the actual RFE form in the mail. It says:

"Submit a legible copy of the marriage certificate. The certificate must indicate that after the marriage ceremoney, it was registered or recorded by the county, state or province. The marriage certificate submitted does not show evidence of being civilly registered with the county clerk. The document must show the page and book numbers in which the event was recorded".

So what I sent them originally was a CERTIFIED COPY (that cost me $20 at the Pima County Courthouse in Tucson, Arizona) of our Record of Marriage, which the clerk stated was the only binding marriage certificate that this county uses. Physically, it is a copy of the certificate that was signed by myself, spouse, witnesses, and officiant at the time of the ceremony. It has the raised, imprinted Pima County seal on the rear of the document, with the deputy clerk's signature. It has the date and the marriage licence number, which the clerk informed me was the only thing Pima County uses to identify marriage certificates - they do not use book/page/file numbers, as there is no books such files are recorded in!

I spent 2 hours and 21 minutes back in the Superior Court building this evening, with my paperwork from USCIS in hand....and was told by the clerk supervisor there is nothing they can do for me, and that she did not believe that USCIS would refuse to accept a CERTIFIED COPY of a legal document. I asked if she could write a letter explaining this, and she said, "If this is good enough for the IRS, it is good enough for Homeland Security. I have nothing else I can do for you".

I am sitting here IN TEARS! over this. What do I do?? I've got 30 days to respond to the RFE, I can't exactly send them back the exact same document that the refused in the first place!

Any advice is appreciated.

-Stormie.

Did you send a copy of both sides of the document? From your description the certification is on the back.

[Julie B. 2]

You need to ask for the supervisor at the courthouse.

[pushbrk 12,975]

You need to ask for the supervisor at the courthouse.

USCIS has seen numerous AZ marriage certificates. They know what to look for. Sounds like the "certification" is on the back. So, you either send the actual certified copy or photocopies of both sides of the document. If they only sent a photocopy of the front side, that's the problem.

[sheeshkabelle 153]

Or send a certificate from the state vital statistics office. Arizona Dept of Health

In my state you can not register children in school with a county birth certificate from a county clerk. Even though it is 'certified' and has a seal. The Board of Education wants the certificate from the state vital statistics office period.

[StormHeraldEDM 5]

I sent the ACTUAL certified copy, which is why I am annoyed. $280 worth of certified copies went with our petition, no photocopies of legal documents. Which is why I'm confused.

AZ Department of Health does not deal with Marriage and Death records - those are maintained by individual counties: http://www.azdhs.gov/vitalrcd/index.htm So Pima County is our only hope, Obi Wan.

I have been provided with the name and phone number of the director of Legal Records at the Pima County Courthouse, so I will speak with her on Monday. Hopefully she can help figure this out.

Thanks everyone for your help.

Edited March 31, 2012 by StormHeraldEDM

[sheeshkabelle 153]

I sent the ACTUAL certified copy, which is why I am annoyed. $280 worth of certified copies went with our petition, no photocopies of legal documents. Which is why I'm confused.

AZ Department of Health does not deal with Marriage and Death records - those are maintained by individual counties: http://www.azdhs.gov/vitalrcd/index.htm So Pima County is our only hope, Obi Wan.

I have been provided with the name and phone number of the director of Legal Records at the Pima County Courthouse, so I will speak with her on Monday. Hopefully she can help figure this out.

Thanks everyone for your help.

That's why USCIS says to send photocopies, they lose things.

Hopefully the legal director can help you out!

[aaron2020 11,651]

Ok, so we got the email on March 27th, and today I got the actual RFE form in the mail. It says:

"Submit a legible copy of the marriage certificate. The certificate must indicate that after the marriage ceremoney, it was registered or recorded by the county, state or province. The marriage certificate submitted does not show evidence of being civilly registered with the county clerk. The document must show the page and book numbers in which the event was recorded".

So what I sent them originally was a CERTIFIED COPY (that cost me $20 at the Pima County Courthouse in Tucson, Arizona) of our Record of Marriage, which the clerk stated was the only binding marriage certificate that this county uses. Physically, it is a copy of the certificate that was signed by myself, spouse, witnesses, and officiant at the time of the ceremony. It has the raised, imprinted Pima County seal on the rear of the document, with the deputy clerk's signature. It has the date and the marriage licence number, which the clerk informed me was the only thing Pima County uses to identify marriage certificates - they do not use book/page/file numbers, as there is no books such files are recorded in!

I spent 2 hours and 21 minutes back in the Superior Court building this evening, with my paperwork from USCIS in hand....and was told by the clerk supervisor there is nothing they can do for me, and that she did not believe that USCIS would refuse to accept a CERTIFIED COPY of a legal document. I asked if she could write a letter explaining this, and she said, "If this is good enough for the IRS, it is good enough for Homeland Security. I have nothing else I can do for you".

I am sitting here IN TEARS! over this. What do I do?? I've got 30 days to respond to the RFE, I can't exactly send them back the exact same document that the refused in the first place!

Any advice is appreciated.

-Stormie.

The Pima County Recorder's Office is responsible for recording and maintaining marriage records. The courts is not responsible for maintaining marriage records, so a "certified copy" from the courts is not the correct one to submit to USCIS. Did you get your copy from the Pima County Recorder's Office or from somewhere else? Your "certified copy" must come from the Pima County Recorder's Office.

Edited March 31, 2012 by aaron2020

[StormHeraldEDM 5]

Per the Pima County Recorder's office voice mail and website:

"Marriage and Divorce records may be obtained from Pima County Superior Court. The Office of the Recorder is unable to access or discuss these files." This is where the certified copy was obtained from. The immigration attorney I consulted with this afternoon indicated that Superior Court was the correct place to obtain the Marriage Record from, and that he has no idea why USCIS chose not to accept it - he postulates that whoever read my file was not familiar with how Pima County produces their documentation, as it is different that the rest of Arizona, which does not maintain state-wide marriage records, only on the county level. He also recommended getting the clerk to write a letter on county letterhead.

This is unbelievably frustrating.

[pushbrk 12,975]

Per the Pima County Recorder's office voice mail and website:

"Marriage and Divorce records may be obtained from Pima County Superior Court. The Office of the Recorder is unable to access or discuss these files." This is where the certified copy was obtained from. The immigration attorney I consulted with this afternoon indicated that Superior Court was the correct place to obtain the Marriage Record from, and that he has no idea why USCIS chose not to accept it - he postulates that whoever read my file was not familiar with how Pima County produces their documentation, as it is different that the rest of Arizona, which does not maintain state-wide marriage records, only on the county level. He also recommended getting the clerk to write a letter on county letterhead.

This is unbelievably frustrating.

So, did you provide a copy of both sides of the certificate or not?

[StormHeraldEDM 5]

So, did you provide a copy of both sides of the certificate or not?

I supplied *original* CERTIFIED COPY - not a copy of the certified copy!

Not sure how to make that more clear. I provided the exact physical piece of paper that I paid for, which had the copy on the front of Marriage Record (as on file with Pima County)and the raised County seal and deputy clerk's signature on the back. I was advised by an attorney not to send photocopies of any legal document, only certified copies with the raised seals, which is what I did.

None of my documents included with my petition packet consisted of single-sided documents - all legal documents (Birth certificates, Marriage Record, Divorce Decree) were all double-sided Certified Copies, with the raised seals and signatures.

Edited April 1, 2012 by StormHeraldEDM

[pushbrk 12,975]

I supplied *original* CERTIFIED COPY - not a copy of the certified copy!

Not sure how to make that more clear. I provided the exact physical piece of paper that I paid for, which had the copy on the front of Marriage Record (as on file with Pima County)and the raised County seal and deputy clerk's signature on the back. I was advised by an attorney not to send photocopies of any legal document, only certified copies with the raised seals, which is what I did.

None of my documents included with my petition packet consisted of single-sided documents - all legal documents (Birth certificates, Marriage Record, Divorce Decree) were all double-sided Certified Copies, with the raised seals and signatures.

Yes, that's very clear now and that along with sending double sided ANYTHING was your first mistake. These folks build their own file, two hole punched and secured at the top. They probably didn't see the back of the document because they didn't want to stand on their head to do so. I would send a photocopy of both sides, with an explanation that Pima County has their own procedures. Perhaps you can find something online that officially explains this, if the county won't provide something on their own letterhead for you.

For the education of others, NEVER send two sided documents, copies or forms to USCIS.

[Divs 35]

USCIS has seen numerous AZ marriage certificates. They know what to look for. Sounds like the "certification" is on the back. So, you either send the actual certified copy or photocopies of both sides of the document. If they only sent a photocopy of the front side, that's the problem.

You could be right, cos that's exactly how it is on my divorce decree. The certification stamp is at the back of each sheet.