CR1/IR1 to bring her from India

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

Dear AKSinghSingh79,

I admit my mistake on 180 days instead of 90 days for K-1. You are right there.

But on everything else I am bang on. When I said K-1, I meant getting a K-1 and not just filing for K-1 as MyDream2012 wants to get her fiancée to US ASAP. If he can prove the credentials of his relationship, she will get the K-1, get to US, get married and apply for conversion to CR-1 which would be easier since the credentials have already been established. You can check with other members of VJ and they will vouch for it. The fundamental point being "if she can get the K-1".

I still don't understand where you are getting this "conversion to the CR-1" information from. If a petitioner files for a beneficiary to come to the U.S. as their fiance(e) then they apply for the K-1. According to the K-1 terms, the beneficiary must marry the petitioner within 90 days. After they are married they may apply for AOS. There is no CR-1 after this. There would be no need for it. The beneficiary would be a legal permanent resident. As I said before, if they wanted to return to India to get married in a Hindu religious ceremony with family and friends present then they would need to apply for Advanced Parole (AP) or wait until her permanent resident card arrived.

On the six weeks CR-1, just because you haven't heard anything doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I am aware of a case in Bombay where the girl married to a US citizen (the bride coming from an influential Gujarati business family) got a CR-1 in less than six weeks. Tortoises can turn into rabbits overnight if you can have six US senators endorse your petition, so please hold your horses. I gave six weeks as the absolute lower limit whereas it has also taken almost two years for people of specific nationalities to get CR-1 (my colleague's Pakistani husband just arrived after waiting that long).

WRONG. U.S. senators endorsing a case means absolutely nothing. The consulate officers are above influence. A congressman's advice to grant a visa is worthless to a CO. A CR-1 being approved in 6 weeks in India is not likely. The only way I can see this being a possibility is if DCF was involved. If you are willing to site an article to this particular case, then I will gladly reverse my statements. Regardless if this were true, the normal processing time for a CR-1 is 8-12 months. Telling the OP that you heard of a possible case where it only took the couple 6 weeks to be granted a visa is not at all helpful. It may only get his hopes falsely high that his case may be approved in that short of a time frame.

What I meant by lapsing is that once you get married while being on a K-1 visa, you are obligated to inform USCIS that you have gotten married and in that case your K-1 will be invalidated in the anticipation that you will now apply for CR-1. If you don't inform the USCIS immediately that you have gotten married then a charge of perjury can be brought against you which might result in fine or/and punishment for the US citizen concerned and a life ban on travel to US for the non-US citizen in the equation. I don't know how many people would be willing to run that risk by hiding their marriage while being on K-1 visa.

Well in your original post, you didn't clearly explain this at all. You said "the K-1 will lapse immediately into a CR-1". I (and most others) would interpret this as, marrying in the middle of a pending I-129f will automatically upgrade your case to an I-130 for a spouse. If you choose to marry in the midst of a pending I-129f, you must immediately notify USCIS so that your petition can be withdrawn. After this, you must start your case over from the beginning but will file the I-130 instead.

On the Special Marriages Act, 1954, I wish that you would have read the act first before commenting. Having gotten married under the act I can safely say that spirit of the act is that anybody as long as the two people concerned are of opposite sexes and don't come under the purview of prohibited relationship, can marry irrespective of caste, creed or religion. In terms of the basic difference between getting married under the Hindu Marriage Act (HMA) and Special Marriages Act (SMA) is that under HMA you have to declare in writing that you are a Hindu whereas in SMA there is no such compulsion. You can very well say that you are a Hindu/Muslim/Christian/Sikh/Parsi/Baudh/Jain/Rastafarian/Jew or an agnostic or atheist and can still get married under the SMA.

I have read the Special Marriage Act. Many, many times. I myself am getting married via the Special Marriage Act but our case is different as we are an inter-religious couple. The law is very ambiguous regarding the marriage of two Hindus. From reading it, I would interpret it as 2 Hindus are free to marry under the Special Marriage Act but since I am not an expert on this law, I recommended the OP seek advice from a qualified legal source (i.e. Marriage Registrar)

On getting married in a third country without any of them living there for long term, this is a problematic route on many counts. First, in the visa interview the first question would be why did you get married in a third country? Second, when the US citizen wants to apply for PIO in India on the basis of his India spouse, the marriage certificate has to be apostilled by the Ministry of External Affairs, Government of India, which does is for the marriages solemnized in India as verified by local officials. If they apply in US, they can do without MEA apostilled only if the marriage has taken place in US as verified by the local Indian consulate. So, in case of a third country marriage that will never happen because neither MEA nor Indian consulate would recognize a marriage certificate from a third country.

I didn't say it was the best solution. I was simply offering it as a viable alternative because nobody has mentioned it already.

So please spare us the condescension and check the facts first.

Take your own advice

Pat2Bos

[Pat2Bos 2]

Dear AKSinghSingh79,

I don't know why I am responding to this, probably because I have been through this situation and can empathize with MyDream2012 and don't want him to be in limbo.

So MyDream2012, my advice is that go ahead, come to India on a month's holiday (or if your job allows remote working, work remotely) register an application to marry at the local marriage office (usually the Sub Divisional Magistrates are nominated as marriage officers by the District Magistrate/Collector), screw the priest and marry under Special Marriages Act after 30 days, You will get the marriage certificate the same day. After that it's your choice if you want to file for CR-1 for your wife in India or come back to US and file here. For most of the Indian states, this information is available on the state government's websites but if your fiancée is from a state where the administration is digitally challenged you will have to request someone to go to the local SDM's office to get the forms etc. And by the way, this whole process will cost you only about INR 500 and it's fairly simple, so no need to go to a tout, agent or a lawyer.

Now, I will come to point by point rebuttal to issues raised by Mr. AKSinghSingh79

I still don't understand where you are getting this "conversion to the CR-1" information from. If a petitioner files for a beneficiary to come to the U.S. as their fiance(e) then they apply for the K-1. According to the K-1 terms, the beneficiary must marry the petitioner within 90 days. After they are married they may apply for AOS. There is no CR-1 after this. There would be no need for it. The beneficiary would be a legal permanent resident. As I said before, if they wanted to return to India to get married in a Hindu religious ceremony with family and friends present then they would need to apply for Advanced Parole (AP) or wait until her permanent resident card arrived.

Well on this forum I don't expect people to require a English grammar refresher, therefore I use words which are not legalese but convey the meaning in shortest possible space. Therefore when I said conversion, it meant changing the application by the petitioner. As for coming back to India is concerned, I have already said in my original post that if you get K-1 it's better that you get married in US as coming back to marry would just complicate issues.

"On no CR-1 after this", well Mr. AKSinghSingh79, I don't know where you get your information from, would just advice you to check if it's not a fake website or the person is not on a high. As the US State Department website (http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/types/types_2991.html) is very clear that if your marriage is less than two years old, your spouse can only get CR-1, and only after completing two years of residence in USA (please note- not two years of marriage) you can apply for AOS which will remove the condition. Both the CR-1 and IR-1 give you permanent residence rights only that in CR-1 it's conditional for two years in the sense that it depends upon your relationship.

WRONG. U.S. senators endorsing a case means absolutely nothing. The consulate officers are above influence. A congressman's advice to grant a visa is worthless to a CO. A CR-1 being approved in 6 weeks in India is not likely. The only way I can see this being a possibility is if DCF was involved. If you are willing to site an article to this particular case, then I will gladly reverse my statements. Regardless if this were true, the normal processing time for a CR-1 is 8-12 months. Telling the OP that you heard of a possible case where it only took the couple 6 weeks to be granted a visa is not at all helpful. It may only get his hopes falsely high that his case may be approved in that short of a time frame.

Well Mr. AKSinghSingh79, I am happy to know that there are still some people who believe in the absolute power of a CO and thus in fairness and transparency of the US visa processes. Good for you. Also 8-12 months is not the normal processing time. Normal processing time is 10 weeks to 24 weeks, cases usually go beyond 12 weeks only if they have been put in Administrative Processing (AP). As in the case of six weeks explains itself that it requires uncommon access and leverage with US law-makers which not many people in India can boast of. Anybody who has solid paperwork and adequate finances for the affidavit of support, can realistically hope for a decision in about 12 weeks.

Well in your original post, you didn't clearly explain this at all. You said "the K-1 will lapse immediately into a CR-1". I (and most others) would interpret this as, marrying in the middle of a pending I-129f will automatically upgrade your case to an I-130 for a spouse. If you choose to marry in the midst of a pending I-129f, you must immediately notify USCIS so that your petition can be withdrawn. After this, you must start your case over from the beginning but will file the I-130 instead.

Well I have already adequately explained this.

I have read the Special Marriage Act. Many, many times. I myself am getting married via the Special Marriage Act but our case is different as we are an inter-religious couple. The law is very ambiguous regarding the marriage of two Hindus. From reading it, I would interpret it as 2 Hindus are free to marry under the Special Marriage Act but since I am not an expert on this law, I recommended the OP seek advice from a qualified legal source (i.e. Marriage Registrar)

Well I have not only read the act but have also have been married under the act for more than a year now. In the process, I have had detailed discussions with two different Sub Divisional Magistrates, their office staffs and a High Court Judge who in his law practicing days used to be a marriage law specialist. All of them have been very clear, along with the documents, that as long as one of the partners is an Indian citizen and fulfills the local residence requirements, he or she can marry anybody of the opposite sex (except prohibited relationships) without any consideration for age, nationality, religion, caste or creed. I don't know if this is not clear, what is? I think Mr. AKSinghSingh79 is one of those people, who feed and abet the humongous good for nothing Indian bureaucracy and the multi-million strong army of useless lawyers.

I didn't say it was the best solution. I was simply offering it as a viable alternative because nobody has mentioned it already.

That's very kind of you Mr. AKSinghSingh79. Since nobody has mentioned this option so far you just mentioned it off the cuff, without even thinking that, far from viable, this could put their married lives in jeopardy as a marriage thus solemnized will have no recognition either in India or in US. That shows huge consideration on your part. Kudos.

So please spare us the condescension and check the facts first.

Take your own advice Posted Image

[Darnell 8,478]

I need your expert help with my visa questions. been reading the forum for a few days but still really confused.

Hey, it's the end of March now - how's it coming along, that knowledge acquisition?

The USGovernment Forms, regardless of yer chosen path, are straightforward,

and you've got some things to consider back at the Indian HomeFront.

Things are coming along? You've cleared some fog, yes?

Hope all is well !

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

First off, I am a "Miss" not a "Mr."

Since you do not seem to believe me, I am going to provide links and quote text directly from USCIS and the US consulates in India to provide you with the facts you are misreading.

So MyDream2012, my advice is that go ahead, come to India on a month's holiday (or if your job allows remote working, work remotely) register an application to marry at the local marriage office (usually the Sub Divisional Magistrates are nominated as marriage officers by the District Magistrate/Collector), screw the priest and marry under Special Marriages Act after 30 days, You will get the marriage certificate the same day. After that it's your choice if you want to file for CR-1 for your wife in India or come back to US and file here.

You can only file in India if both the petitioner and beneficiary are legal residents of India for more than 6 months. This is called Direct Consular Filing (DCF) Here is a quote from the New Delhi consulate's website:

"If you are a U.S. citizen legally residing in India and want to file an immigrant visa petition for an immediate relative, you can file a petition at the USCIS Office in New Delhi if you have been continuously, legally present in India for at least the 6 months prior to filing the petition. Individuals who are in the country on temporary status, such as a student or tourist do not meet this residency standard and must file an immigrant visa petition for an immediate relative in the United States. Please provide a valid email address and telephone number with STD code so we can contact you about your case." http://newdelhi.usem...ediaterel2.html

For most of the Indian states, this information is available on the state government's websites but if your fiancée is from a state where the administration is digitally challenged you will have to request someone to go to the local SDM's office to get the forms etc. And by the way, this whole process will cost you only about INR 500 and it's fairly simple, so no need to go to a tout, agent or a lawyer.

The whole cost will only be about INR 500? I don't think so. I'll break it down for you. The cost of filing the I-130 petition for a spouse is currently $420. If going the K-1 route the cost of filing the I-129F is $340. Afterwards there is AOS (form I-485) which costs $985 ($1070 with biometrics), and the visa fee at the consulate which I believe is around $350. Total cost for the CR-1/IR-1 is about $945 = INR 48,078 and the K-1 costs about $1805 = INR 91,831. http://www.visajourn...content/compare

http://www.uscis.gov...00045f3d6a1RCRD

Well on this forum I don't expect people to require a English grammar refresher, therefore I use words which are not legalese but convey the meaning in shortest possible space. Therefore when I said conversion, it meant changing the application by the petitioner. As for coming back to India is concerned, I have already said in my original post that if you get K-1 it's better that you get married in US as coming back to marry would just complicate issues.

You are free to insult me and my "terrible English grammar" as much as you want. It will not change the facts. When a couple decides they want to settle in the U.S. through a marriage based visa, they choose either the K-1 or the CR-1/IR-1. ONE. There is no rule that you cannot apply for a CR-1/IR-1 after the K-1 but why should you? Both visa processes accomplish the same goals, only in a different way. Coming back to marry would not complicate anything as long as the beneficiary had been granted Advanced Parole prior to leaving the US (and assuming they followed the guidelines of the K-1 by marrying within 90 days of arrival into the U.S.).

"On no CR-1 after this", well Mr. AKSinghSingh79, I don't know where you get your information from, would just advice you to check if it's not a fake website or the person is not on a high. As the US State Department website (http://travel.state....types_2991.html) is very clear that if your marriage is less than two years old, your spouse can only get CR-1, and only after completing two years of residence in USA (please note- not two years of marriage) you can apply for AOS which will remove the condition. Both the CR-1 and IR-1 give you permanent residence rights only that in CR-1 it's conditional for two years in the sense that it depends upon your relationship.

Yes that's correct information. However it does not apply if the couple were to marry via the K-1 as you mentioned they should do above. As I said before, they need to choose between either the K-1 or CR-1/IR-1. There is no reason to file for both. The K-1 does not convert into a CR-1/IR-1 after marrying in the U.S. nor do the couple need to file for a CR-1/IR-1 after marrying via the K-1.

Well Mr. AKSinghSingh79, I am happy to know that there are still some people who believe in the absolute power of a CO and thus in fairness and transparency of the US visa processes. Good for you. Also 8-12 months is not the normal processing time. Normal processing time is 10 weeks to 24 weeks, cases usually go beyond 12 weeks only if they have been put in Administrative Processing (AP). As in the case of six weeks explains itself that it requires uncommon access and leverage with US law-makers which not many people in India can boast of. Anybody who has solid paperwork and adequate finances for the affidavit of support, can realistically hope for a decision in about 12 weeks.

It's not my job to make you believe that a CO is above influence. It is what it is. That is just a fact and I'm relaying it. No lawmaker, congressman, or even the president could convince a CO to overturn their decision if they believe the beneficiary is coming to the U.S. for fraudulent purposes. You mentioning that you "heard" of a case where a wealthy Indian couple having "connections" with U.S. lawmakers is not going to convince me of its legitimacy. I didn't say the visa process was fair. It attempts at fairness yet many legitimate couples still get denied on a daily basis. The point is "buttering up a U.S. lawmaker/Congressman will not guarantee a visa. A congressman can only inquire on the status of a case on behalf of a petitioner. The consulates and USCIS tend to respond promptly to a congressman.

Filing for a CR-1/lR-1 from start to finish does in no way take 12 weeks. I'm sorry this is just wrong. Filing an I-130 petition for a spouse takes an average of 3-6 months for approval. Then it gets sent to the NVC for AOS which takes an average of 1 month. Next the beneficiary must get a medical prior to their interview and the interview can take 1-3 months to schedule an appointment depending on how busy the consulate is.

Check here for historical CR-1 processing times. Keep in mind these are REAL people's cases, not some made up numbers. http://www.visajourn...r1cr1historical

If that doesn't convince you, here are the average processing times for cases out of India: http://www.visajourn...2C27%2C28&cfl=0

Well I have not only read the act but have also have been married under the act for more than a year now. In the process, I have had detailed discussions with two different Sub Divisional Magistrates, their office staffs and a High Court Judge who in his law practicing days used to be a marriage law specialist. All of them have been very clear, along with the documents, that as long as one of the partners is an Indian citizen and fulfills the local residence requirements, he or she can marry anybody of the opposite sex (except prohibited relationships) without any consideration for age, nationality, religion, caste or creed. I don't know if this is not clear, what is? I think Mr. AKSinghSingh79 is one of those people, who feed and abet the humongous good for nothing Indian bureaucracy and the multi-million strong army of useless lawyers.

Good for you. I never claimed to be an expert on the Special Marriage Act. I made it clear in my first post that the OP should consult with somebody who is qualified to discuss the legal aspects of the Special Marriage Act. If it is so clear why is the OP having trouble? Why has nobody participating on this thread been able to provide a clear answer to him?

That's very kind of you Mr. AKSinghSingh79. Since nobody has mentioned this option so far you just mentioned it off the cuff, without even thinking that, far from viable, this could put their married lives in jeopardy as a marriage thus solemnized will have no recognition either in India or in US. That shows huge consideration on your part. Kudos.

Since when is a marriage solemnized in a third country not recognized by the U.S. or India? For example, there is no rule in Thailand that states that both parties must be a resident of Thailand. Many foreign couples go to third countries to get married and have a joint marriage/honeymoon. As long as the marriage is performed according to the local country's laws, the marriage is legal and will be recognized for immigration purposes. I have a friend (USC) who married her Indian citizen fiance on a student visa in Australia. Their marriage was perfectly legal and recognized by both India and the U.S. Here's a link to a thread on VJ about marrying in a third country: http://www.visajourn...-cr-1-purposes/

[mydream2012 0]

Hey, it's the end of March now - how's it coming along, that knowledge acquisition?

The USGovernment Forms, regardless of yer chosen path, are straightforward,

and you've got some things to consider back at the Indian HomeFront.

Things are coming along? You've cleared some fog, yes?

Hope all is well !

i think the process as outlined here in the guides and wiki, is the least of my problems , plus i have all of you wonderfully helpful people to rely on, in case of any questions.

its the civil ceremony in india, that is becoming a climb to mount everest.

i have gotten some very useful information from some of replies here and am currenlty trying to find a way to do civil marriage in india.

[Darnell 8,478]

I only note that 'the process' for civil marriage in India does vary, depending on where you are, and, bonus tips to the workers usually cut time to days, instead of weeks.

[mydream2012 0]

thanks to all the info provided by you, i have made some progress on court marriage there.

here's what i have found so far, but its not fully confirmed yet. it seems that i would have to go to india twice.

first time, we both go and file the application in court, in person. then they will give us a date, about 30 days later, when we can show up and get married

second time, on the date they give us, we both go along with family and friends as witnesses and sign and get married.

atleast 15-20 days later, is when we can collect out certificate. the delay is because they have to send the certificate to some judge or magistrate in another town and then it goes to a judge/magistrate in Delhi for signature, then it comes back. not sure if this is true or if they are bluffing, just to get some money.

also, one very interesting information that came from the court officer is,that, this will be the only copy of your marriage certificate that will be provided to you and that the paper its made of is extremely fragile and to be very careful with it.

how did the process of collecting the certificate went for you? do we have to go together, again, to get the certificate? can she or her parents go collect it?

i was in india to see family when i first met her in january, but i have no proof(pictures) that we met, except for stamps in my passport showing that i was in india.

should i use this info in my application to show that we met first in january. or is it better to not say this, as i have no proof of us being together in january.

can i use the trip(when i will go to file the marriage application) as a proof of having met in person again? do i have to also tell them that this trip was for filing the marriage application with the marriage registrar or just show it as a trip to go meet her?

will just taking some pictures of us spending time together be enough? such as me at her house with her family, us going out to movies/restaurant, or us travelling/sighseeing together, if there are other things that can be accepted as proofs of us meeting, please tell me.

is it necessary to do a engagement(ring ceremony) before the court marriage? honestly i just want to do a court marriage only, as i cant get a lot of vacation days. so, just going there for two short trips, one for application, second for marriage and then filing for CR1, will this be a problem or is it going to cause any issues or red flags with the embassy?

[mydream2012 0]

hello everyone,

hope i did not asked anything wrong. no one seems to have responded to my questions above.

thank you

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

hello everyone,

hope i did not asked anything wrong. no one seems to have responded to my questions above.

thank you

Hi MyDream,

I just thought I'd share with you that my fiance was able to get around me being physically in India for the filing of the notice of intent. It took a lot of paperwork from my side. He also went back to the marriage registrar's office every day until they gave him a firm answer. He said it helped a great deal when his family accompanied him. At one point the marriage registrar was even teasing him saying, "Who are even going to be your witnesses for your marriage?" I guess they didn't believe his family was ok with him marrying an American girl. They did allow it at the end and now our Intent to Marry will be posted on the board for 30 days and we will be marrying in May!

My advice? Be calm, patient, and always polite when approaching the Marriage Registrar's office. Also be persistent and don't get discouraged by them telling you "no" a few times. In fact, I fully expect them to tell you "no, it's not possible" the first few times. Bring a copy of the Special Marriage Act with you in case they are challenging it. Also, if they continue to refuse, politely ask them to review the law and repeat the part which says that both parties must be physically present in India (It doesn't).

To my understanding, Goa is the only state in India in which both the bride and groom must be present when marrying via the Special Marriage Act.

Good luck! Please keep updating your status!

Edited April 12, 2012 by AKSinghSingh79

[mydream2012 0]

Hi MyDream,

I just thought I'd share with you that my fiance was able to get around me being physically in India for the filing of the notice of intent. It took a lot of paperwork from my side. He also went back to the marriage registrar's office every day until they gave him a firm answer. He said it helped a great deal when his family accompanied him. At one point the marriage registrar was even teasing him saying, "Who are even going to be your witnesses for your marriage?" I guess they didn't believe his family was ok with him marrying an American girl. They did allow it at the end and now our Intent to Marry will be posted on the board for 30 days and we will be marrying in May!

My advice? Be calm, patient, and always polite when approaching the Marriage Registrar's office. Also be persistent and don't get discouraged by them telling you "no" a few times. In fact, I fully expect them to tell you "no, it's not possible" the first few times. Bring a copy of the Special Marriage Act with you in case they are challenging it. Also, if they continue to refuse, politely ask them to review the law and repeat the part which says that both parties must be physically present in India (It doesn't).

To my understanding, Goa is the only state in India in which both the bride and groom must be present when marrying via the Special Marriage Act.

Good luck! Please keep updating your status!

thank you, it seems that the officer there wants bribe money as far as i can tell. first he said that i will have to stay in india for 40 days, now he is saying that i will have to make two trips to india, one for filing the application and second one for the court marriage. can you please tell me anything about how you got around to not having to go there for application, that can save me a trip.(i am already going to pay him bribe, anything that can save me a trip will be very helpful)

but one thing he said is that the marriage certificate will be exactly the same as the one given to couples who go through a religious marriage. is this true? i always thought that both certificates would be different.

[Nature11 0]

Its better to go for CR1. If you apply for K1, you need to show lot of evidence and prove your relationship. Also need to justify why you want to get married in US instead of in India. You can get CR1 in less than an year and there won't be any issue during interview.

[sachinky 464]

Mr. Sachinky wasn't present in India for the notice period either. He signed the papers in the US and I signed my bit in my living room in my PJs.

It took about 3-4 days to get our marriage certificate. My mom paid someone 500/- and they gave us 8 copies of it. Looks like a minty green large sheet of paper with all the information typed out in it (that was filled in during the wedding). The header is titled "Special Marriage Act."

[mydream2012 0]

AKSinghSingh79 and sachinky, if you dont mind telling me, which city/state in india did you do the court marriage?

AKSinghSingh79, your status says you already filed for CR1, but you are getting married in May! , does this mean one can file even before they actually get married?

since the officer says that we are still going to get the same certificate as the couples who marry and then register. does this makes any difference when we go to apply for visa?

Edited April 12, 2012 by mydream2012

[AKSinghSingh79 143]

AKSinghSingh79 and sachinky, if you dont mind telling me, which city/state in india did you do the court marriage?

AKSinghSingh79, your status says you already filed for CR1, but you are getting married in May! , does this mean one can file even before they actually get married?

since the officer says that we are still going to get the same certificate as the couples who marry and then register. does this makes any difference when we go to apply for visa?

My fiance did this in his hometown of Haldwani, Uttarakhand.

No, you cannot file for the CR-1 before marriage. I'm impatient so I have my visa type up already

. If you look at my timeline, you will see we haven't filed yet.

[sachinky 464]

(South) Calcutta, West Bengal.