A Nightmare from Kyiv

[thelastpetitioner 218]

The Federal Government intends to make life difficult and miserable on purpose. Doing so creates more government jobs and keeps the private citizen "in line". I am glad there are people who can think independently for themselves, speak out, still love America and be proud to be an American. That is what so many Americans sacrificed so much, in so many ways, so many times........... to have in this country,

And also protects you and your fellow Americans from scammers, criminals and terrorists

[Katiedog 6]

thelastpetitioner:

You're shoveling it out pretty deep in here, I am glad I have my waders on for the time being.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Katiedog

[AmyWrites 593]

I used the term "rehearsed". It was a figure of speech to describe our going over the facts of what might be asked and discussed. My main point in this statement was to indicate that she is and was totally and completely familiar with me, my background, work, past, present, family, everything and that nothing was left out. Marina is not a person who would have spoken like it was a rehearsed discussion. She was relaxed and was comfortable, but a bit puzzled at the brevity of the "interview". When she told me of the recent phone call, she indicated the woman was abrupt, terse and it was like an interrogation. I asked Marina how she answered and I asked her if she was shaken up or upset by the intial tone and questions. She told me she just answered the questions of the lady and did not let the person upset her or get her nervous. She indicated the phone call ended with the woman being at ease and seemingly satisfied. There was a much more pleasant tone at the end of the phone call coming from her. Marina just handled it all as any person would who knows the facts and speaks the truth. There is nothing to hide or fear.

Since you and Robert&Karen both have or do work for the Foreign Service and seem to light up with suspicion on the same things, let me point out that it is a sign on your parts of initial skepticism in your demeanor. Another thing about affidavits. If they don't mean "squat", why did my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law, tell me to get these affidavits and have them notarized? I guess he thinks they were a good idea to include. I will tell him that they are viewed with little or no validity in these petitions the next time I see him.

What is more is that you are viewing the situation from the side of the Consular Officer. I understand that fact and what motivates you. You need to be aware of the way this all comes across to the average US Citizen or even a potential immigrant who is truthful and honest. It can be intimidating and scary and it can put you off balance because there is so much at stake from the outcome.

Consider this scenario: Your doctor calls you with the latest report from you last bloodwork. He/she says they need to see you right away and can you come right away to their office.

How does the doctor handle this situation which may be serious or may be routine? You have no idea what is going on but it has the potential to be bad and the outcome is serious one way or the other, good or bad.

And you further state that any documentation can be "faked somehow". If that is the case and I provided the documentation as required to the letter by the guidelines, what is the purpose of providing certified, original, translated, notarized, etc. documentation if it is viewed as probably faked? You are giving off some negative vibes and skepticism I addressed in one of my posts about US Government employees with discretionary authority. A pre-determined mental attitude of "this deal can't be good" from the beginning.

This situation is like most things in life, it involves "communication". The protocol of handling a petition in 221g does not involve communication with the parties involved between themselves. It is like being tried in a court and you are not allowed to be present, your information you provided as required is questioned as if it was all fraudulently prepared for fraudulent purposes. And the basic decision to approve or disapprove has already been made before it even goes to court. You were never given the chance to set things correctly.

Is your lawyer a CO, or ever been one? Then, yes, his opinion matters, but not so, and more importantly, he can be wrong.... I won't get started on "immigration lawyers" who end up further screwing up petitioners or slowing things down. In fact I don't understand why people hire lawyers for easy cases in easy consulates, but many feel a sense of security with a lawyer.

Affidavits help very little, since they are so, so easy to fake. Try it out yourself. Write a letter on word, print it, and trace your son's signature on it. Done. Getting it notarized is better, but it's still not huge. They help, but they are not primary evidence, and people should rely more so on other forms of evidence.

But the point is, your fiance is in AP, and there's a reason for that. They want to finish these cases as soon as possible, keep it moving, it's easier. They don't decide to keep it for no reason, and it might be a very stupid, small, minute reason, maybe not even your own fault, but something caused this. Good news is you WILL in all likelihood get approved, and this is just a small obstacle that sadly you have to wait it out. It'll pass, it sucks, but it will pass, and then you will bring her here, and get married, and start the second part of this process most people come to despise at some point. No amount of whining will quicken this, and instead you could talk to your fiance about how wonderful it'll be when she goes to the US, your wedding, your future, your family.

[AmyWrites 593]

I used the term "rehearsed". It was a figure of speech to describe our going over the facts of what might be asked and discussed. My main point in this statement was to indicate that she is and was totally and completely familiar with me, my background, work, past, present, family, everything and that nothing was left out. Marina is not a person who would have spoken like it was a rehearsed discussion. She was relaxed and was comfortable, but a bit puzzled at the brevity of the "interview". When she told me of the recent phone call, she indicated the woman was abrupt, terse and it was like an interrogation. I asked Marina how she answered and I asked her if she was shaken up or upset by the intial tone and questions. She told me she just answered the questions of the lady and did not let the person upset her or get her nervous. She indicated the phone call ended with the woman being at ease and seemingly satisfied. There was a much more pleasant tone at the end of the phone call coming from her. Marina just handled it all as any person would who knows the facts and speaks the truth. There is nothing to hide or fear.

Since you and Robert&Karen both have or do work for the Foreign Service and seem to light up with suspicion on the same things, let me point out that it is a sign on your parts of initial skepticism in your demeanor. Another thing about affidavits. If they don't mean "squat", why did my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law, tell me to get these affidavits and have them notarized? I guess he thinks they were a good idea to include. I will tell him that they are viewed with little or no validity in these petitions the next time I see him.

What is more is that you are viewing the situation from the side of the Consular Officer. I understand that fact and what motivates you. You need to be aware of the way this all comes across to the average US Citizen or even a potential immigrant who is truthful and honest. It can be intimidating and scary and it can put you off balance because there is so much at stake from the outcome.

Consider this scenario: Your doctor calls you with the latest report from you last bloodwork. He/she says they need to see you right away and can you come right away to their office.

How does the doctor handle this situation which may be serious or may be routine? You have no idea what is going on but it has the potential to be bad and the outcome is serious one way or the other, good or bad.

And you further state that any documentation can be "faked somehow". If that is the case and I provided the documentation as required to the letter by the guidelines, what is the purpose of providing certified, original, translated, notarized, etc. documentation if it is viewed as probably faked? You are giving off some negative vibes and skepticism I addressed in one of my posts about US Government employees with discretionary authority. A pre-determined mental attitude of "this deal can't be good" from the beginning.

This situation is like most things in life, it involves "communication". The protocol of handling a petition in 221g does not involve communication with the parties involved between themselves. It is like being tried in a court and you are not allowed to be present, your information you provided as required is questioned as if it was all fraudulently prepared for fraudulent purposes. And the basic decision to approve or disapprove has already been made before it even goes to court. You were never given the chance to set things correctly.

Is your lawyer a CO, or ever been one? Then, yes, his opinion matters, but not so, and more importantly, he can be wrong.... I won't get started on "immigration lawyers" who end up further screwing up petitioners or slowing things down. In fact I don't understand why people hire lawyers for easy cases in easy consulates, but many feel a sense of security with a lawyer.

Affidavits help very little, since they are so, so easy to fake. Try it out yourself. Write a letter on word, print it, and trace your son's signature on it. Done. Getting it notarized is better, but it's still not huge. They help, but they are not primary evidence, and people should rely more so on other forms of evidence.

But the point is, your fiance is in AP, and there's a reason for that. They want to finish these cases as soon as possible, keep it moving, it's easier. They don't decide to keep it for no reason, and it might be a very stupid, small, minute reason, maybe not even your own fault, but something caused this. Good news is you WILL in all likelihood get approved, and this is just a small obstacle that sadly you have to wait it out. It'll pass, it sucks, but it will pass, and then you will bring her here, and get married, and start the second part of this process most people come to despise at some point. No amount of whining will quicken this, and instead you could talk to your fiance about how wonderful it'll be when she goes to the US, your wedding, your future, your family.

[AmyWrites 593]

I used the term "rehearsed". It was a figure of speech to describe our going over the facts of what might be asked and discussed. My main point in this statement was to indicate that she is and was totally and completely familiar with me, my background, work, past, present, family, everything and that nothing was left out. Marina is not a person who would have spoken like it was a rehearsed discussion. She was relaxed and was comfortable, but a bit puzzled at the brevity of the "interview". When she told me of the recent phone call, she indicated the woman was abrupt, terse and it was like an interrogation. I asked Marina how she answered and I asked her if she was shaken up or upset by the intial tone and questions. She told me she just answered the questions of the lady and did not let the person upset her or get her nervous. She indicated the phone call ended with the woman being at ease and seemingly satisfied. There was a much more pleasant tone at the end of the phone call coming from her. Marina just handled it all as any person would who knows the facts and speaks the truth. There is nothing to hide or fear.

Since you and Robert&Karen both have or do work for the Foreign Service and seem to light up with suspicion on the same things, let me point out that it is a sign on your parts of initial skepticism in your demeanor. Another thing about affidavits. If they don't mean "squat", why did my attorney who is Board Certified to practise Immigration Law, a member of high standing in AILA and frequently gives lectures and writes columns about Immigration Law, tell me to get these affidavits and have them notarized? I guess he thinks they were a good idea to include. I will tell him that they are viewed with little or no validity in these petitions the next time I see him.

What is more is that you are viewing the situation from the side of the Consular Officer. I understand that fact and what motivates you. You need to be aware of the way this all comes across to the average US Citizen or even a potential immigrant who is truthful and honest. It can be intimidating and scary and it can put you off balance because there is so much at stake from the outcome.

Consider this scenario: Your doctor calls you with the latest report from you last bloodwork. He/she says they need to see you right away and can you come right away to their office.

How does the doctor handle this situation which may be serious or may be routine? You have no idea what is going on but it has the potential to be bad and the outcome is serious one way or the other, good or bad.

And you further state that any documentation can be "faked somehow". If that is the case and I provided the documentation as required to the letter by the guidelines, what is the purpose of providing certified, original, translated, notarized, etc. documentation if it is viewed as probably faked? You are giving off some negative vibes and skepticism I addressed in one of my posts about US Government employees with discretionary authority. A pre-determined mental attitude of "this deal can't be good" from the beginning.

This situation is like most things in life, it involves "communication". The protocol of handling a petition in 221g does not involve communication with the parties involved between themselves. It is like being tried in a court and you are not allowed to be present, your information you provided as required is questioned as if it was all fraudulently prepared for fraudulent purposes. And the basic decision to approve or disapprove has already been made before it even goes to court. You were never given the chance to set things correctly.

Is your lawyer a CO, or ever been one? Then, yes, his opinion matters, but not so, and more importantly, he can be wrong.... I won't get started on "immigration lawyers" who end up further screwing up petitioners or slowing things down. In fact I don't understand why people hire lawyers for easy cases in easy consulates, but many feel a sense of security with a lawyer.

Affidavits help very little, since they are so, so easy to fake. Try it out yourself. Write a letter on word, print it, and trace your son's signature on it. Done. Getting it notarized is better, but it's still not huge. They help, but they are not primary evidence, and people should rely more so on other forms of evidence.

But the point is, your fiance is in AP, and there's a reason for that. They want to finish these cases as soon as possible, keep it moving, it's easier. They don't decide to keep it for no reason, and it might be a very stupid, small, minute reason, maybe not even your own fault, but something caused this. Good news is you WILL in all likelihood get approved, and this is just a small obstacle that sadly you have to wait it out. It'll pass, it sucks, but it will pass, and then you will bring her here, and get married, and start the second part of this process most people come to despise at some point. No amount of whining will quicken this, and instead you could talk to your fiance about how wonderful it'll be when she goes to the US, your wedding, your future, your family.

[Katiedog 6]

Thank you very much for commenting in this thread AmyWrites. Of course your inside viewpoint is of particular value along with several others (Robert/Karen for one) who know what is looks like from the Consulate Side. For everyone who has contributed I am grateful for your input. I look at the situation soberly but I still get angry about it happening when all was rolling along as quickly and smoothly as it can in the process. It is my private life, my personal life and my time which is valuable to me that is most effected. I also see my loved ones affected and that is a flashpoint for me.

Everyone in the US sees the flaunting of Government red tape, excess, waste, corruption and most all the other sins our Maker warns us about committing. And as time passes the Government becomes more invasive into our private and very personal lives. Everyone resents it but it seems it takes a very long time for anything positive to change for the private citizen, except the things that spread the powers of the Government to reach deeper and further into our lives. The harsh reality is that the US Government with its power and money can do virtually anything it wants with a private citizen. It can do it legally, bending the law, making up law, smoke and mirrors of legality, manipulation of the law or just plain breaking it to achieve their agenda or goals. That is the reality of the cat watching the mouse these days we live in.

As for myself, I love America, but there are some things that I do not like that I believe need change. There are some things that will have to change sooner or later. Plus I have lived long enough and been through enough experiences to have little patience with another Government excess, mistake, policy, power, legal power or something else that will reach even deeper into my personal life or that I will be forced to deal with. This comes to a person as they get older and have many experiences imprinted on their minds from the past and the present.

The initial process of filing the petition is needlessly stretched out for a great deal of time wasted, communication is limited between applicant and Government and then the Government once more drops the ball of service (despite the claim of security and protection for us) at yet another juncture with this 221g power. Were circumstances different in my fiance's and my life or she from some other country, it might be understandable, but that is not the case at all.

There is no one in high office from Congress upwards that I have voted for in the last election for any of those offices. I know my Congressman personally as he is from my hometown and it is a small town. He is a nice guy and seems to be honest (which is rare), but I know he is part of the Machine (over 20 years) we all complain and carp about. So with good conscience I cannot give him my vote.

This callous, overburdening, ineffective, antiquated system of dealing with immigration needs complete overhaul but no one comes forward to do it. They don't know how to handle the illegal immigrants and they do not know how to handle the legal ones that would come to the country and contribute something of value and good to us all in our society and way of life. It seems the legal immigrants are treated much more poorly and harshly than those that come illegally. That is the real bone in people's throat about this matter.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Katiedog

[Robert&Karen 264]

I think those who have to go through AP should get a red frame around their picture here or some other badge to show the pangs they had to endure.

[TBoneTX 43,072]

I think those who have to go through AP should get a red frame around their picture here or some other badge to show the pangs they had to endure.

Si, man.

[Katiedog 6]

I think those who have to go through AP should get a red frame around their picture here or some other badge to show the pangs they had to endure.

All I want is a valid Visa that will bring her here to the USA ASAP. We have a lot of things to do even after that, so the longer we wait, the longer it will take. Longer it will take to bring her daughter here so that she can possibly begin school here at the start of a semester instead in mid term. I have to keep in mind that the philosophy of how I conduct my life based on "The Golden Rule" has absolutely NO bearing whatsoever on these people. I hope what goes around comes around sooner or later.

I loved the Kyiv Embassy review of one forum member who recently got on the spot approval. He complained he was mistreated by waiting too long in the cold, was treated with a fair amount of rudeness on the part of the Consul Officer and felt as an American Citizen he deserved at least a little respect. I agree with that completely from the bottom of my heart, but I wrote him and told him he was one of the fortunate ones. He needed to read this thread for a reality check of what can happen.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Katiedog

[Katiedog 6]

Here is the latest update in our situation. Marina received a call from the Embassy on Thursday last week telling her that her Visa will be issued this week (March 12-17) and that she should be expecting to receive it as well. Of course it was a big relief and good news but since we still do not have it in our hands and all the paperwork that she will need to enter the USA, I am reserving a celebration until that happens. I do not trust this bunch of people (if you can call them that) any more than I could make a phone call direct to the officer handling the situation in the first place.

On February 29, about three or four days after my Congressman's office inquired with the Embassy getting a "Not Ready Response", I emailed the Embassy making an inquiry. I received no reply and on March 7 I made ANOTHER inquiry by email. Here it is March 12 and they finally answer that they need her passport to finish processing the Visa for her. Of course since they have had her International Ukraine Passport since November 16, 2011 has not even occurred to them I guess. They are really "on the ball" so to speak.

So I wrote back in an email reply that they had the passport they were asking me (in America) to get from her (in Ukraine) to send to them (in Ukraine). Great logistics, really outstanding and efficient handling of the matter. Especially since they have the passport in their own hands if they have not lost it.

I told them it might be more efficient to contact Marina direct by phone in Ukraine to get the passport they want if the one they have is not the one they require. We shall see.

These people need a good dose of what it is like to sit on our side of the equation. A bucketful of reality dumped on their heads. Bunch of Sorry SOB's.

I really do not care if my opinion offends some of the readers of this post because this situation is NOT RIGHT. This way of handling things is NOT RIGHT. It is legally abusing a privilege given to them for the efficient performance of their duties which obviously they do not do very well. I don't give a damn how much preparation, training and sacrifice these people go through to get a job like that, they abuse the people they serve with an omniscient God-like attitude and it is not supposed to be that way. "protecting America" BS. Same as the lawyers, courts and "justice" system "protecting our rights and freedom" while they rob us and use us to feed the legal machinery of the country.

[TBoneTX 43,072]

The good news is that the worst is apparently over, si man.

There's a mechanism by which to file an "after-visa complaint" with the Department of State. I'm still simmering after 3+ years.

[Katiedog 6]

I have asked my Congressional Office to contact their State Department liason to call these idiots in Kyiv to get this matter straightened out before it becomes a major clusterf**k. I am afraid that it might do just that thanks to their "professional" handling of their job duties as State Department Employees. Not many people are born like that, they have to be made that way by some process.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Katiedog

[TBoneTX 43,072]

Good for you -- stay on it, si man.

[momof1 205]

What in the world would a complaint be filed for? I really don't get this thread. Honestly. It sounds like AP to me plain and simple. Don't take things so personally. Not everyone is out to get you. AP is a necessary evil that some people have to endure whether you like it or not. I endured 2.5 years of AP for the approved I-130 due to a lengthy name check for my husband. Two more years of the officer who interviewed us "sitting" on our petition before forwarding it to the NVC. Another year stuck at the NVC for a paper the Turkish govt refused to issue but the NVC wouldn't move us forward without. Three more months of AP between submitting waivers and it being forwarded to Rome. Six months further for a decison. A month for the file to be sent back to Algeria. Three more weeks for the interview and another month for the visa to be issued. Now THAT sucks. However, life moves on. You get less angry. You get less bitter. You move on with your life. You can try to wrap your brain around this stupid stupid process(which will make you crazy) or you can concentrate on what you have control over and be happy. I choose to concentrate on the good things like sending off my husband's citizenship application in one month...he'll become a citizen finally near our ten year wedding anniversary

Congrats on the latest news...I hope her visa comes soon.

[Katiedog 6]

Is your lawyer a CO, or ever been one? Then, yes, his opinion matters, but not so, and more importantly, he can be wrong.... I won't get started on "immigration lawyers" who end up further screwing up petitioners or slowing things down. In fact I don't understand why people hire lawyers for easy cases in easy consulates, but many feel a sense of security with a lawyer.

NO my lawyer has never been a "CO" to my knowledge. Has a "CO" ever been put through the ringer like this process does to people? I doubt it. Has a "CO" EVER walked in the common man's shoes and had to endure and suffer the dealings with the US Government, not likely. Is there any real benefit for the "system" to work like this, not really because it is corrupt, fallible, inefficient, time and money wasting. It gives the rights of POWER over everyday taxpayers/people to those who are severely handicapped by either personally deficiencies and have "power egos" like many police officers when given the power. It is ABUSED and it is a WASTE of the TAXPAYER'S money from the bottom to the top and from side to side. I'd enjoy standing toe to toe or sitting eye ball to eye ball on "even ground" with some of these SOB's that think they are so smart and doing such a great job "serving America". All they do is perpetuate their jobs and careers. Generation after generation.

Don't hand me all this ####### about how dedicated these State Department people are if they conduct business and their jobs this way. Just because something is done a certain dysfunctional way or something is "legal" DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT. That is the whole problem, no one "thinks differently and more efficiently", they just fall in line and perpetuate the clusterf**k. Then they can climb the ladder in government service, get promotions, perks, benefits and privileges the everday taxpayer has never imagined. And they get "connections" within the power matrix of the US Government for conforming. It was the same with Roman bureaucrats, so just keep on keeping on. The "High and Almighty US Government Official" is a buffoon to the American public. What's that famous line? "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you". Right...............

And for anyone going through this gauntlet, I am very sorry it happened to you. I would not wish this on anyone. But to those of you who want to compare your situation with mine, bear in mind one thing. My fiance is from Ukraine, NOT a known nation with a population that is anti American, supportive of terrorist activity or a place where terrorists hide and originate from. And it is a nation with some cultural, spritual and friendly ties to the United States. Doesn't matter what anyone says, THOSE FACTS MAKE A DIFFERENCE IN THE PERCEPTION an immigrant faces when they file a petition.

My fiance arrives on March 22. The idiots did not even realize at first they had her Ukraine Passport because they emailed me in the US to contact her in Ukraine to send them her Ukraine passport. DUH! I do not feel one damned bit less angry about this BS. I will move on, but I will make my complaints in the appropriate places and agencies. I would not ask the American Embassy in Kiev for one damned thing, I'm better off with my family helping me when I am there if I ever have trouble. No doubt about it. In Ukraine at least you know what you going to get for your money, in America you don't get your money's worth.