Newt Gingrich calls the Palestinians an "invented" people who want to destroy Israel.

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

It's true that the people who lived in historic Palestine did not identify themselves as "a Palestinian people" until Israel came along.

I'm disappointed in you, lizard. You forgot to toe the party line that there was nobody in Judea and Samaria until 1948.

Read this book.

I had no idea that this was a reading club. Maybe you'd better read this book..

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

Definitely. Soffiya needs to read a book, once in a while, like sage Mark recommends: http://www.amazon.co.../dp/0231105150/

Large, bellicose, uneducated American makes deliberately inflammatory statements based on total ignorance and the fantasies of partisans. Maybe you should read this book.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Have you been watching the debate tonight? Your blood would be boiling.

I am pretty sure Gingrich just called all Palestinians terrorists

I don't watch that ####### anymore. Gingrich is a pandering moron.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Have you been watching the debate tonight? Your blood would be boiling.

I am pretty sure Gingrich just called all Palestinians terrorists

They voted for a terrorist government (Hamas). What would you call that?

[Karee 4,189]

They voted for a terrorist government (Hamas). What would you call that?

Israel is a terrorist govt., yet they get voted in year after year.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

They voted for a terrorist government (Hamas). What would you call that?

I call it hypocrisy. Israel's founding heroes are terrorists. They used to be Hamas; they just got better PR.

Israel celebrates Irgun hotel bombers

By Harry de Quetteville, in Jerusalem12:01AM BST 22 Jul 2006

In the midst of its campaign against Hizbollah and Hamas "terrorists", Israel has been accused by Britain of feting Jewish "terrorists" whose bomb attack killed 28 Britons 60 years ago today.

The accusation, which reopens the debate about the use of politically-inspired violence in the region, follows the unveiling of a plaque commemorating the attack on the King David hotel in Jerusalem on July 22, 1946, by the Irgun Jewish "resistance" to British mandate rule in Palestine. The 28 Britons were among 91 people killed.

This week, former Irgun fighters and current Right-wing politicians unveiled the plaque at the hotel, which read: "The hotel housed the Mandate Secretariat as well as the Army Headquarters. On July 22, 1946, Irgun fighters at the order of the Hebrew Resistance Movement planted explosives in the basement. Warning phone calls had been made urging the hotel's occupants to leave immediately. For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated and after 25 minutes the bombs exploded, and to the Irgun's regret and dismay 91 persons were killed."

But Israel's celebration of its "freedom fighters" remains highly controversial at a time when it continues to pound Palestinian "terrorists".

Tzipi Livni, Israel's foreign minister, has found herself deeply embroiled in the debate - her father, Eitan, was Irgun's chief operations officer.

Simon Macdonald, the British ambassador to Israel, and consul general John Jenkins, wrote to the mayor of Jerusalem protesting at the plaque. "We don't think it's right for an act of terrorism to be commemorated," their letter read.

The embassy said: "There is no credible evidence that any warning reached the British authorities." The plaque has subsequently been amended, dropping the implication that Britain ignored any warnings.

Edited December 11, 2011 by Sofiyya

[Sofiyya 1,687]

[Sofiyya 1,687]

New York City celebrates terrorists.

by Peter A. Belmont / 2009-01-22

Please don’t be shocked. Or ‘shocked, shocked’. New York City celebrates a group of terrorists with a big brass plaque in the sidewalk on E. 60th Street. That is (to follow the US’s definition of terrorism), it celebrates and memorializes an armed non-state group which uses (or at the time used) illegal violence to bring about a political result.

Of course, the city does not celebrate all terrorists. This is New York City, after all, whose mayors regularly travel to Israel to show their qualifications to rule this city. And whose current mayor felt impelled to travel to Israel during Israel’s recent destruction of Gaza. You were wondering which terrrorists were memorialized, were’nt you. This is a hint.

Perhaps Miami has a brass plaque to celebrate anti-Castro terrorism. Each city makes its peace with terrorism in its on way. In New York City, we celebrate Israeli (or Jewish) terrorism.

And, of course, all of America celebrates the founding fathers who, from a purely British viewpoint of the time, were probably terrorists. (We’re all friends now!)

The E. 60th Street plaque celebrates the fund-raising center of the Hagana, Israel’s pre-state military, a group which took part in Menachem Begin’s massacre of the villagers of Deir Yassin in April 1948, before the State of Israel was officially created.

The Haganah leaders admitted that the massacre “disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag.” They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists’ attack, even though they did not participate in the barbarism and looting during the subsequent “mopping up” operations.

They also played down the fact that, in Begin’s words, “Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah and with the approval of its commander” as a part of its “plan for establishing an airfield.”

Ben Gurion even sent an apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But this horrific act served the future State of Israel well. According to Begin:

Arabs throughout the country, induced to believe wild tales of “Irgun butchery,” were seized with limitless panic and started to flee for their lives. This mass flight soon developed into a maddened, uncontrollable stampede. The political and economic significance of this development can hardly be overestimated.

See here.

For more about the Zionist threat in 1948, and more about Deir Yassin, see the letter by Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, and many others, denouncing Begin’s party.

It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants ? 240men, women, and children - and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed,

It’s really quite something, isn’t it, to contemplate that there are some things even the mighty USA, the world’s sole superpower (to hear the zealots crow), cannot do. Things even Israel cannot do.

Neither the USA nor Israel can manage to engage in terrorism. Because (as we define it) terrorism is a non-state activity. We and Israel can make war, but we simply cannot engage in terrorism.

Good to know.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Second Einstein letter, as it appeared in the NYT

New Palestine Party. Visit of Menachen Begin and Aims of Political Movement Discussed. A letter to The New York Times. Saturday December 4, 1948 by Albert Einstein, Hannah Arendt, Sidney Hook, et.al.

Source: Text from original microfilm

TO THE EDITORS OF NEW YORK TIMES:

Among the most disturbing political phenomena of our times is the emergence in the newly created state of Israel of the "Freedom Party" (Tnuat Haherut), a political party closely akin in its organization, methods, political philosophy and social appeal to the Nazi and Fascist parties. It was formed out of the membership and following of the former Irgun Zvai Leumi, a terrorist, right-wing, chauvinist organization in Palestine.

The current visit of Menachem Begin, leader of this party, to the United States is obviously calculated to give the impression of American support for his party in the coming Israeli elections, and to cement political ties with conservative Zionist elements in the United States. Several Americans of national repute have lent their names to welcome his visit. It is inconceivable that those who oppose fascism throughout the world, if correctly informed as to Mr. Begin's political record and perspectives, could add their names and support to the movement he represents.

Before irreparable damage is done by way of financial contributions, public manifestations in Begin's behalf, and the creation in Palestine of the impression that a large segment of America supports Fascist elements in Israel, the American public must be informed as to the record and objectives of Mr. Begin and his movement.

The public avowals of Begin's party are no guide whatever to its actual character. Today they speak of freedom, democracy and anti-imperialism, whereas until recently they openly preached the doctrine of the Fascist state. It is in its actions that the terrorist party betrays its real character; from its past actions we can judge what it may be expected to do in the future.

Attack on Arab Village

A shocking example was their behavior in the Arab village of Deir Yassin. This village, off the main roads and surrounded by Jewish lands, had taken no part in the war, and had even fought off Arab bands who wanted to use the village as their base. On April 9 (THE NEW YORK TIMES), terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants (240 men, women, and children) and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem. Most of the Jewish community was horrified at the deed, and the Jewish Agency sent a telegram of apology to King Abdullah of Trans-Jordan. But the terrorists, far from being ashamed of their act, were proud of this massacre, publicized it widely, and invited all the foreign correspondents present in the country to view the heaped corpses and the general havoc at Deir Yassin.

The Deir Yassin incident exemplifies the character and actions of the Freedom Party.

Within the Jewish community they have preached an admixture of ultranationalism, religious mysticism, and racial superiority. Like other Fascist parties they have been used to break strikes, and have themselves pressed for the destruction of free trade unions. In their stead they have proposed corporate unions on the Italian Fascist model.

During the last years of sporadic anti-British violence, the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them, adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window-smashing, and wide-spread robberies, the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute.

The people of the Freedom Party have had no part in the constructive achievements in Palestine. They have reclaimed no land, built no settlements, and only detracted from the Jewish defense activity. Their much-publicized immigration endeavors were minute, and devoted mainly to bringing in Fascist compatriots.

Discrepancies Seen

The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party, and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal.

In the light of the foregoing considerations, it is imperative that the truth about Mr. Begin and his movement be made known in this country. It is all the more tragic that the top leadership of American Zionism has refused to campaign against Begin's efforts, or even to expose to its own constituents the dangers to Israel from support to Begin.

The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.

ISIDORE ABRAMOWITZ,

HANNAH ARENDT,

ABRAHAM BRICK,

RABBI JESSURUN CARDOZO,

ALBERT EINSTEIN,

HERMAN EISEN, M.D.,

HAYIM FINEMAN, M. GALLEN, M.D.,

H.H. HARRIS,

ZELIG S. HARRIS,

SIDNEY HOOK,

FRED KARUSH,

BRURIA KAUFMAN,

IRMA L. LINDHEIM,

NACHMAN MAISEL,

SEYMOUR MELMAN,

MYER D. MENDELSON, M.D.,

HARRY M. OSLINSKY,

SAMUEL PITLICK,

FRITZ ROHRLICH,

LOUIS P. ROCKER,

RUTH SAGIS,

ITZHAK SANKOWSKY,

I.J. SHOENBERG,

SAMUEL SHUMAN,

M. SINGER,

IRMA WOLFE,

STEFAN WOLFE.

New York, Dec. 2, 1948

[Penguin_ie 5,987]

***** One offensive image and one post quoting same removed. This is a very contentious subject for both sides, please stay civil in your debate. *****

[luckytxn 2,263]

***** One offensive image and one post quoting same removed. This is a very contentious subject for both sides, please stay civil in your debate. *****

Party pooper.

[웃 910]

I had no idea that this was a reading club. Maybe you'd better read this book..

This is a good book:

http://www.amazon.com/Ramblings-Deluded-Soul-Jake-Barton/dp/1466294051/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1323627118&sr=1-1

[IR5FORMUMSIE 850]

This is a good book:

http://www.amazon.co...23627118&sr=1-1

Better Still

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It's true that the people who lived in historic Palestine did not identify themselves as "a Palestinian people" until Israel came along.

No, it isn't true. From the review from your link:

[Khalidi] sees Palestinian nationalism emerging far earlier than is generally thought--in the preWW I period,.... He demonstrates how the long-term influence of modernization, the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, and concomitant European incursion in the preWW I era, followed by the betrayal of promises made by both the British and French, contributed as much to Palestinian nationalism as the 1917 Balfour Declaration and Zionist immigration.

Palestinian Identity

So Khalidi says that Palestinian nationalism began before World War I - this is 3 decades before the emergence of Israel - and was not only or primarily due to Zionist aspirations in Palestine.

The Arabic daily newspaper Filastin was referring to readers as "Palestinians" as early as 1911. The first Palestinian National Congress was in 1919.

However, the 20th century Jewish immigrants to Palestine did not identify themselves as "an Israeli people" until 1948.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

It was immediately clear that Mark had no idea what that book was about. He was probably just drawn to the title.

After WWI, the area was formally governed by the British Mandate for Palestine (as the ancient Romans had named the region) from 1923 to 1948. The people there, Muslim, Christian and Jew, referred to themselves as Palestinians early on, as evidenced in the independence platform statement by the Third Arab Congress in 1920:

"Public recognition of Palestine, as it would be constituted by the mandate, as a distinct political entity for the people living there, a total rejection of any political or moral right of the Jews over Palestine, a declaration of unity among the Palestinian Arabs to supersede any other loyalties, such as those to religion, region, and clan, a call to the new administration to halt any transfers of Arab or state lands to Jewish control, the demand to close Palestine to further Jewish immigration, a call to recognize the Arab Executive Committee as the legitimate representative of the population before the British authorities."

It would be greatly appreciated if people purporting to speak the truth would care a little to know what they're talking about.