Consular report of birth abroad 5 year residence

[dreamwarrior 0]

My child is 1 year old and we haven't gotten this done yet. I've been reading about the requirements and it appears that I need to show proof that I've resided in the US for 5 years. Since I came to Vietnam in 2009 and haven't been back to the US since, I have little paperwork with me to prove this. What I do have is:

Passport valid 2002-2012 (last stamped august 2004 entry new zealand no exit, 2010 entry vietnam)

Vietnam visa (1st one in feb 2009)

Tax return 2008 (for the year 2007)

Tax return 2009 (for the year 2008)

Investment statement 1099 2007 (for the year 2007)

Drivers license (valid 2008-2013)

Health insurance card (2009)

Ok, so I've got proof of 4.5 years from the passport and visa stamps alone, 2004-2009). Is the passport's issue date of 2002 valid? If so then I would have my 5 years of proof. I'm trying to get access to my college transcripts. I tried to get my drivers record which would be for the past 7 years but for some reason it's not coming through on my computer.

[payxibka 10,044]

what were your actual dates of us residence? where were you born? when did you become a usc?

Edited December 2, 2011 by payxibka

[Penguin_ie 5,986]

Can you get highschool or university transcripts?

Letters from past employers?

Call the IRS for past tax returns?

[dreamwarrior 0]

Can you get highschool or university transcripts?

Letters from past employers?

Call the IRS for past tax returns?

I can, but it's going to have to wait until early next year. My parents can bring any paperwork back with them. I was hoping to get this done now.

what were your actual dates of us residence? where were you born? when did you become a usc?

1977-2009

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

You didn't answer payxibka's question. When did you become a US citizen? What are the dates, starting and ending, that you were actually present in the United States? The law requires physical presence in the United States, and not simply residence.

[himher 634]

Yah I gave them my college transcripts and current + old/expired passport. They do use passport stamps so you are really, really close.

Do you have your expired passport (the one cancelled prior to 2002?)

My child is 1 year old and we haven't gotten this done yet. I've been reading about the requirements and it appears that I need to show proof that I've resided in the US for 5 years. Since I came to Vietnam in 2009 and haven't been back to the US since, I have little paperwork with me to prove this. What I do have is:

Passport valid 2002-2012 (last stamped august 2004 entry new zealand no exit, 2010 entry vietnam)

Vietnam visa (1st one in feb 2009)

Tax return 2008 (for the year 2007)

Tax return 2009 (for the year 2008)

Investment statement 1099 2007 (for the year 2007)

Drivers license (valid 2008-2013)

Health insurance card (2009)

Ok, so I've got proof of 4.5 years from the passport and visa stamps alone, 2004-2009). Is the passport's issue date of 2002 valid? If so then I would have my 5 years of proof. I'm trying to get access to my college transcripts. I tried to get my drivers record which would be for the past 7 years but for some reason it's not coming through on my computer.

[dreamwarrior 0]

id been physically present in the us as a citizen for 25 years.

did not have a passport prior to 2002.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

id been physically present in the us as a citizen for 25 years.

did not have a passport prior to 2002.

I don't see how a passport proves anything. Entry and exit in the United States is not recorded in a US citizen's passport. Entry/exit stamps from other countries prove you weren't in the US when the stamp was entered. An exit stamp proves you left a country, but don't prove that you reentered the US.

The consulate in HCMC lists as examples of evidence: academic records, school transcripts, tax records, Social Security statement, etc.

http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/report_of_birth_abroad.html

In other words, credible evidence from an unbiased third party. If you were doing anything beyond merely existing in the US then there's probably a record of it somewhere. It doesn't matter how old this evidence is, as long as at least two of the years were after you were 14 years old. If you could get a transcript from your high school saying you attended for four years and combined that with your tax returns then that should be enough.

[himher 634]

Phuong -

You can't live in another country and just "obtain" evidence from the US and it is impractical (sometimes -no- usually) to go back to the US to get it if you have a baby with no passport - duh.

As stated earlier - my previous/current passports and 4 1/2 years of college transcripts did the trick for us. They did not look for travel to and from the US - they looked for travel to and from other countries which (in the case of the US Consulate Dhahran) was interpreted by the consular officer to be travel from and return to the US.

I don't see how a passport proves anything. Entry and exit in the United States is not recorded in a US citizen's passport. Entry/exit stamps from other countries prove you weren't in the US when the stamp was entered. An exit stamp proves you left a country, but don't prove that you reentered the US.

The consulate in HCMC lists as examples of evidence: academic records, school transcripts, tax records, Social Security statement, etc.

http://hochiminh.usconsulate.gov/report_of_birth_abroad.html

In other words, credible evidence from an unbiased third party. If you were doing anything beyond merely existing in the US then there's probably a record of it somewhere. It doesn't matter how old this evidence is, as long as at least two of the years were after you were 14 years old. If you could get a transcript from your high school saying you attended for four years and combined that with your tax returns then that should be enough.

Edited December 5, 2011 by himher

[dreamwarrior 0]

Well, I will try and do it with my passport. Technically it should be enough. The worst they will do is say that my paperwork is insufficient. At that time I would not yet have had to pay a dime. Thanks for all of your help!

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Phuong -

You can't live in another country and just "obtain" evidence from the US and it is impractical (sometimes -no- usually) to go back to the US to get it if you have a baby with no passport - duh.

As stated earlier - my previous/current passports and 4 1/2 years of college transcripts did the trick for us. They did not look for travel to and from the US - they looked for travel to and from other countries which (in the case of the US Consulate Dhahran) was interpreted by the consular officer to be travel from and return to the US.

I'm Jim. Phuong is my wife.

First, proof of physical presence is only required when the consular officer has doubts that the US citizen parent meets the physical presence requirement.

The types of evidence a consular officer can accept in determining if a US citizen has met the physical presence requirement are described in 7 FAM 1445.5-6.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86801.pdf

d. You may accept established proof of registration in U.S. public or private schools, court records, military records, U.S. employment and income records, medical records, or other similar documents as valid evidence of physical presence for the periods of time required by the citizen parent to transmit citizenship. 7 FAM 1133.3 provides specific guidance about calculating residence and physical presence, including periods of absence.

e. In the absence of such primary evidence and upon presentation of satisfactory proof of the inability to obtain such evidence, consuls may accept the sworn statements of at least two U.S. citizens having personal knowledge of the parent’s periods of physical presence in the United States as sufficient evidence to establish the claim.

There is no guidance in the Foreign Affairs Manual that allows a consular officer to consider travel records in the US citizen's passport as proof of physical presence in the United States. An entry stamp in a passport means only that you entered that country on that date. It does not prove, and in many cases doesn't even imply that you left the United States a short time before entering that country. Many countries never stamp your passport on exit, and many others frequently fail to do it routinely. A consular officer could easily presume you entered that country after having departed a different country other than the United States. I don't think it's good advice to tell someone that a passport is sufficient evidence when Department of State's own policies don't indicate this, and neither do the instructions from the OP's consulate.

[himher 634]

My apology on the name.

From our standpoint it is only our responsibility to share specific experiencesw for various steps in this process.

With this in mind: Our specific experience from standing at a window and actually watching a consular officer paging through my passport(s) looking at travel and asking me questions about travel (plus making a joke that getting a new passport in 2006 then getting married overseas in 2007 sure looks like I got that passport to travel to see my wife which was pretty insightful for a government employee) followed by a nice consular report of birth + pretty new passport for my daughter is the basis for (my) comments to the OP.

Curious: Have you ever actually gone through the process of resistering a USC birth to USC/non-USC parents? Share your own experience then but you are politely advised not to walk over or post rubbish over how you think ours should theoretically have gone. Ours worked and was successful otherwise we found all that other stuff on the internet. Internest searches are the easy part LOL

Just for your information proof of physical presence is required every single time. It is a fundamental criteria for determining whether a person is eligible for the right of citizenship at birth when only one parent is a USC. Several babies have been born over the last few years in our camp here in Saudi and all of the USC parents married to non-USC spouses have to go through the same process we did.

Summary: What you see how or do not see how evidence is interpreted does not matter a whit against actual experience.

I'm Jim. Phuong is my wife.

First, proof of physical presence is only required when the consular officer has doubts that the US citizen parent meets the physical presence requirement.

The types of evidence a consular officer can accept in determining if a US citizen has met the physical presence requirement are described in 7 FAM 1445.5-6.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86801.pdf

d. You may accept established proof of registration in U.S. public or private schools, court records, military records, U.S. employment and income records, medical records, or other similar documents as valid evidence of physical presence for the periods of time required by the citizen parent to transmit citizenship. 7 FAM 1133.3 provides specific guidance about calculating residence and physical presence, including periods of absence.

e. In the absence of such primary evidence and upon presentation of satisfactory proof of the inability to obtain such evidence, consuls may accept the sworn statements of at least two U.S. citizens having personal knowledge of the parent’s periods of physical presence in the United States as sufficient evidence to establish the claim.

There is no guidance in the Foreign Affairs Manual that allows a consular officer to consider travel records in the US citizen's passport as proof of physical presence in the United States. An entry stamp in a passport means only that you entered that country on that date. It does not prove, and in many cases doesn't even imply that you left the United States a short time before entering that country. Many countries never stamp your passport on exit, and many others frequently fail to do it routinely. A consular officer could easily presume you entered that country after having departed a different country other than the United States. I don't think it's good advice to tell someone that a passport is sufficient evidence when Department of State's own policies don't indicate this, and neither do the instructions from the OP's consulate.

Edited December 9, 2011 by himher

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

My apology on the name.

From our standpoint it is only our responsibility to share specific experiencesw for various steps in this process.

With this in mind: Our specific experience from standing at a window and actually watching a consular officer paging through my passport(s) looking at travel and asking me questions about travel (plus making a joke that getting a new passport in 2006 then getting married overseas in 2007 sure looks like I got that passport to travel to see my wife which was pretty insightful for a government employee) followed by a nice consular report of birth + pretty new passport for my daughter is the basis for (my) comments to the OP.

Curious: Have you ever actually gone through the process of resistering a USC birth to USC/non-USC parents? Share your own experience then but you are politely advised not to walk over or post rubbish over how you think ours should theoretically have gone. Ours worked and was successful otherwise we found all that other stuff on the internet. Internest searches are the easy part LOL

Just for your information proof of physical presence is required every single time. It is a fundamental criteria for determining whether a person is eligible for the right of citizenship at birth when only one parent is a USC. Several babies have been born over the last few years in our camp here in Saudi and all of the USC parents married to non-USC spouses have to go through the same process we did.

Summary: What you see how or do not see how evidence is interpreted does not matter a whit against actual experience.

I've never had a child born abroad, nor registered a birth abroad at a US consulate. I have two friends who went through the CRBA process at the consulate in Saigon. Neither of them were asked for proof of physical presence. They appeared at the CRBA interview, signed a sworn statement, and the CRBA was approved. One of them DID have his passport examined, but not because of the physical presence requirement - it was because the CO wanted to see evidence that the US citizen parent was in Vietnam at the time the child was conceived. If the CO hadn't been satisfied with what he saw then I imagine a DNA test would have been called for.

The Foreign Affairs Manual is not a simple internet search. It's the Department of State policy manual for all US foreign service officers. Consular officers don't always follow it to the letter, but in general they do follow it because they're required to. There have been many times on this site where I've seen people describe actions or decisions by consular officers that seemed to me to be in conflict with the guidance in the Foreign Affairs Manual. I can't explain what happened in those cases, but I wouldn't suggest to someone else that the experience of that person with that consular officer was typical, nor that they should expect the same thing to happen with a different consular officer at a different consulate.

You're suggesting that your experience was typical. I'm suggesting that your experience was not typical.

[Penguin_ie 5,986]

Just for your information proof of physical presence is required every single time.

We went through CRBA for our twins in Ireland. We were asked for proof, but my husband told them that his boxes with his highschool transcripts etc which he had shipped to Ireland three years previous never arrived, and so he doesn't have any proof. They accepted his word. But Ireland is not a high fraud country and my husband has a Southern drawl

[himher 634]

I didnt think so. I also did not say what was "typical" or "not typical". I shared what they asked for, were provided, and what they used to make a determination for us.

Whatever may or may not be in the manual it appears that they pretty much take what you have and use whatever you bring to make a determination. The OP appears then to have enough evidence to make said determination.

I cannot say that I know anyone with a non-USC spouse who walked into the consulate and obtained a CRBA / Passport without showing proof of presence either. That, in my view and based on our experience, would be atypical (southern accent or not LOL). My drawl sure didnt let me wiggle out of it. (If) that happens then it appears that the OP may be in an even better situation than we were.

Some commentary: I (do) see high value and benefit in automatically awarding US citizenship to anyone with a parent who can demonstrate a good ole southern drawl and if that ain't in the manual then it dam sure should be added in red ink and in a special section.

I've never had a child born abroad, nor registered a birth abroad at a US consulate. I have two friends who went through the CRBA process at the consulate in Saigon. Neither of them were asked for proof of physical presence. They appeared at the CRBA interview, signed a sworn statement, and the CRBA was approved. One of them DID have his passport examined, but not because of the physical presence requirement - it was because the CO wanted to see evidence that the US citizen parent was in Vietnam at the time the child was conceived. If the CO hadn't been satisfied with what he saw then I imagine a DNA test would have been called for.

The Foreign Affairs Manual is not a simple internet search. It's the Department of State policy manual for all US foreign service officers. Consular officers don't always follow it to the letter, but in general they do follow it because they're required to. There have been many times on this site where I've seen people describe actions or decisions by consular officers that seemed to me to be in conflict with the guidance in the Foreign Affairs Manual. I can't explain what happened in those cases, but I wouldn't suggest to someone else that the experience of that person with that consular officer was typical, nor that they should expect the same thing to happen with a different consular officer at a different consulate.

You're suggesting that your experience was typical. I'm suggesting that your experience was not typical.