B2 Visitor Visa

[utst10 0]

Who here have had their love ones visted the USA without having "strong ties" to their coutnry?

Here is a thread of someone only needing a letter of invite and the I-134.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/104447-tourist-visa-for-mom-from-vietnam-to-visit/

From everything I read here, not a lot of B2 is granted without strong ties (like 1% maybe??)

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Post violating TOS has been removed. Allowable part of the post is returned to the thread below, although, I am also posting a 'warning' about the tone of language used in this post as it is inappropriate and unhelpful.

Stereotyping all visitors as being fraudulent adds nothing useful to this discussion. The OP asked for cases where strong ties were not requested - and provided proof that such situations exist. Although rare, they are obviously not impossible. If you have facts that you can quote, please add them in, but do not introduce a sarcastic tirade that includes attacking other posters with whom you disagree when you add nothing constructive to the discussion. Personal opinion is not evidence or fact.

For the official record, letters of invitation are often requested for tourist visa interviews, along with evidence that the person issuing the invitation is willing to assume some financial responsibility for the visitor while in the US (accommodation, food, etc.). In spite of the cynicism below, there are indeed visitors who are not fiancees, who are not boyfriend and girlfriend, who are legitimate visitors with no other intent than to visit the US and who will return home.

very few are granted without the applicant having convinced the CO that they will return to their country after a short visit.

Invitation letters and I-134s are completely useless during the tourist visa interview...as far as HELPING the applicant get a visa....these documents are neutral at best, and at worst, will bring about a denial in record time. Why? Because often there is a huge disconnect between what the applicant is saying and what these documents offer...like the ever popular invite from the 'family friend' (who, remarkably, is single, about the same age as the applicant, of the opposite sex and who the applicant has allegedly never met....what an unusual circumstance!!?

Of course, 'family friend' really means 'American fiancee'....something that the COs know only too well.

Bottom line: no ties, no visa.

[Noah Lot 387]

Post violating TOS has been removed. Allowable part of the post is returned to the thread below, although, I am also posting a 'warning' about the tone of language used in this post as it is inappropriate and unhelpful.

Stereotyping all visitors as being fraudulent adds nothing useful to this discussion. The OP asked for cases where strong ties were not requested - and provided proof that such situations exist. Although rare, they are obviously not impossible. If you have facts that you can quote, please add them in, but do not introduce a sarcastic tirade that includes attacking other posters with whom you disagree when you add nothing constructive to the discussion. Personal opinion is not evidence or fact.

For the official record, letters of invitation are often requested for tourist visa interviews, along with evidence that the person issuing the invitation is willing to assume some financial responsibility for the visitor while in the US (accommodation, food, etc.). In spite of the cynicism below, there are indeed visitors who are not fiancees, who are not boyfriend and girlfriend, who are legitimate visitors with no other intent than to visit the US and who will return home.

Having worked for an immigration attorney for more than two years, and having been exposed to countless situations as described above and having witnessed (and asked to 'assist') the kind of 'creativity' used to try and acquire tourist visas, my opinion is based on far more than a personal opinion...it is based on first hand knowledge and experience, far more than the average poster on this or any other site has.

Invitation letters are NOT a legal requirement for any tourist visa applicant; while they may or may not be suggested, there is nothing in the INA that states every applicant seeking a B2 visa produce an invitation letter from some 'family friend' in the US. Some other countries have this requirement; the US of A does not. Invitation letters and the ever popular I-134 are NOT legally enforceable; ergo, they have zero value during an interview. The 'invitor' cannot be legally forced to pay the expenses for any tourist visa holder, whether those expenses are of a medical nature or just the typical visit to Disneyland.

Quite frequently, around the globe, applicants attempt to fool our consular officials by using various quaint terminology when describing some nebulous personal relationship between themselves and the author of an invitation letter, or the hazy nature of some alleged required training that the applicant must take (the current trend, popular in India, is the excuse of 'knowledge transfer'...a euphism for unauthorized employment, which has been brought to the attention of the State Dept...and any applicant using this terminology now finds their interview lasts about 11 seconds and is not successful.

Whenever people from a particular country hear about the purported success of applicants using certain kinds of terminology or references, many try the same thing. It's like a story you start at one side of the room; by the time you hear it again, it has changed dramatically.

In the real world, few people from foreign countries have 'family friends' that they truly 'need' to visit. Statistically, those applicants are trying to enter the US to (a) find an American spouse or (b) engage in unauthorized employment.

Considering that every year, approximately 350,000 to nearly 500,000 'tourists' fail to return to their country after a visit to their 'family friend', well, those numbers (obtained from USCIS and ICE) speak volumes. It should be no surprise that America now has more than 14,000,000 illegal aliens, many of whom told our officials that they were going to visit some 'family friend' for three weeks...and yet, years later, where are they now?

Abuse of tourist visas is not a once in a hundred occurence...especially from countries that are not on the visa waiver program.

Now, the moderators of VJ may not like to hear this, but they cannot refute it (though they may choose to edit the content, which would be a shame since this info is not innaccurate).

All one needs to do is glance at the left hand margin of many of the posters to this site...how often does one read..."AOS from B2" or something similar in their timeline?

If you wish to slap my hand or silence me, well, I suppose you can. But it would be a shame and, IMHO, a disservice to the readers of this site to squelch the facts. Many of us (American citizens) are not too pleased with the current state of affairs surrounding immigration. I have no objections to LEGAL immigration, but I vehemently object to those who circumvent the process and then ask or beg for even more shortcuts so they can obtain a green card. I personally find such behavior reprehensible and consider those who aid and abet such actions as unpatriotic. All I ask is that people abide by the terms of any visa privilege given to them, and not to engage in any manner of fraud or deceit in order to obtain something that they may not merit on their own or that is authorized for the class of visa they may hold.

Now, if this posting belongs in a different section, well, I would be pleased to see it transferred there rather than being excised. thank you.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Your 'opinion' is still your opinion and is still based upon your experience - or the experiences the lawyer for whom you worked encountered.

Your experience has apparently given you a jaundiced view of immigrants and immigration, yet you try to justify your position as an absolute by introducing statements that no one else has made. No where has anyone stated that a letter is a 'must do' or a 'legal' requirement. There has been no statement that offering to support a visitor is viewed as a legal contract by those offering or those accepting An invitation is just that - an invitation; An offer to support is just that - an offer. The Consulate can evaluate the intention contained within such offers and either ignore the offer or accept it as an indication of intent. It is their decision to make. You seem to confuse providing evidence of intent with legally enforceable documentation. No one else seems to have this interpretation. I can appreciate that your experiences have soured you on many immigrants, however it still does not make your black and white position 'right' nor does it give you the right to attack or insult those who disagree with your position. If people were saying a letter is a legal requirement for a visitors visa, then you can refute it. If people are saying an offer of support is legally enforceable, then you can refute that; if you are saying a visitor is stating they 'need' a visitor visa, you can also refute that. You are not in the position to state, however, that the majority of visitors have fraudulent intentions. That is your opinion based upon a lot of speculation, and is not borne out by the fact that the majority of those who receive tourist visas do honour their visas and return to their home countries afterwards. That some don't is also a fact and working with a lawyer you probably got to see more of those who have broken the law than those who have observed it.

We all here support legal immigration and many are as frustrated as you are by those who do violate the terms of their visa. Just don't make such absolute statements that all those who seek visitor visas are fraudulent and only trying to find ways to circumvent the immigration process. The OP was not asking about people who try to circumvent the immigration process and we have gone far off of the posted topic with this discussion - which is not about fraud but asking for examples of visitor visas that have been granted without strong evidence of ties to the home country.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Kathryn41

[Boiler 43,397]

All you have to do is look at what is required by Consulates world wide to submit, an I 134 and a letter of invitation is not on that list.

Having said that some Consulates do ask for such documents occasionally.

In the vast majority of cases no opportunity is given to submit additional documentation, interviews are usually brief, a few minutes.

Fraud? Well all I know is limited persons I have spoken to and what I have read here.

From the posts on this section of the board, well you could not help becoming very very cynical.

[Noah Lot 387]

Your 'opinion' is still your opinion and is still based upon your experience - or the experiences the lawyer for whom you worked encountered.

Your experience has apparently given you a jaundiced view of immigrants and immigration, yet you try to justify your position as an absolute by introducing statements that no one else has made. No where has anyone stated that a letter is a 'must do' or a 'legal' requirement. There has been no statement that offering to support a visitor is viewed as a legal contract by those offering or those accepting An invitation is just that - an invitation; An offer to support is just that - an offer. The Consulate can evaluate the intention contained within such offers and either ignore the offer or accept it as an indication of intent. It is their decision to make. You seem to confuse providing evidence of intent with legally enforceable documentation. No one else seems to have this interpretation. I can appreciate that your experiences have soured you on many immigrants, however it still does not make your black and white position 'right' nor does it give you the right to attack or insult those who disagree with your position. If people were saying a letter is a legal requirement for a visitors visa, then you can refute it. If people are saying an offer of support is legally enforceable, then you can refute that; if you are saying a visitor is stating they 'need' a visitor visa, you can also refute that. You are not in the position to state, however, that the majority of visitors have fraudulent intentions. That is your opinion based upon a lot of speculation, and is not borne out by the fact that the majority of those who receive tourist visas do honour their visas and return to their home countries afterwards. That some don't is also a fact and working with a lawyer you probably got to see more of those who have broken the law than those who have observed it.

We all here support legal immigration and many are as frustrated as you are by those who do violate the terms of their visa. Just don't make such absolute statements that all those who seek visitor visas are fraudulent and only trying to find ways to circumvent the immigration process. The OP was not asking about people who try to circumvent the immigration process and we have gone far off of the posted topic with this discussion - which is not about fraud but asking for examples of visitor visas that have been granted without strong evidence of ties to the home country.

Perhaps a simpler assessment of the possible situation the OP described would help:

An invitation letter and/or an I-134 are NOT ties to one's country of residence...what is being analyzed or weighed by the consular officials are the ties that an applicant may (or may not) have, not the quality or origin or veracity of an invitation letter and/or an I-134. The consuls are rarely interested in WHY one wants to GO to the US; they are more concerned about WHY an applicant would RETURN to their country...and an invitation letter and/or an I-134 has no bearing on that future action, no matter who it is written by.

While some countries require them (Canada, for example [but not from USCs]) and perhaps some of our embassies SUGGEST one is presented, neither document is legally required as part of an applicant's collection of documents to present at the window.

Many cultures place an inordinate value on such things, but the interviews conducted by our consular folks are not built around documents. Also, because there is a huge black market in some parts of the world in the sale of invitation letters and I-134s (in some countries these things sell for $100-$200 each!), the consular officials working in those countries are fully aware of this situation and routinely collect such letters, etc, noting that many of them have the same source.

Some years ago, I worked for several months in a consulate, sort of like an intern, in an eastern European country....we watched these documents being sold across the street! I also observed first hand thousands of interviews, heard all the stories and participated in visa fraud investigation....the results were sobering, to say the least.

However, a very distinctive and recurring pattern emerged....'family friend' was the term used most often to hide the true relationship between applicant and invitor; 'required training' or 'knowledge transfer' were the terms used to disguise the fact that the applicants were really going to work. Now, in that particular country, this sort of thing was rampant; it certainly may not be as prevalent in other countries. However, in many developing countries, this sort of thing is fairly common because of the overall weak economy that many of these countries have.

So my opinion is based on far more experience than most .... sometimes my reaction may be a bit blunt, but I am not making this stuff up.

Anyway, thanks for listening, responding, etc. I will try to keep the sarcasm to a minimum.

[utst10 0]

Your 'opinion' is still your opinion and is still based upon your experience - or the experiences the lawyer for whom you worked encountered.

Your experience has apparently given you a jaundiced view of immigrants and immigration, yet you try to justify your position as an absolute by introducing statements that no one else has made. No where has anyone stated that a letter is a 'must do' or a 'legal' requirement. There has been no statement that offering to support a visitor is viewed as a legal contract by those offering or those accepting An invitation is just that - an invitation; An offer to support is just that - an offer. The Consulate can evaluate the intention contained within such offers and either ignore the offer or accept it as an indication of intent. It is their decision to make. You seem to confuse providing evidence of intent with legally enforceable documentation. No one else seems to have this interpretation. I can appreciate that your experiences have soured you on many immigrants, however it still does not make your black and white position 'right' nor does it give you the right to attack or insult those who disagree with your position. If people were saying a letter is a legal requirement for a visitors visa, then you can refute it. If people are saying an offer of support is legally enforceable, then you can refute that; if you are saying a visitor is stating they 'need' a visitor visa, you can also refute that. You are not in the position to state, however, that the majority of visitors have fraudulent intentions. That is your opinion based upon a lot of speculation, and is not borne out by the fact that the majority of those who receive tourist visas do honour their visas and return to their home countries afterwards. That some don't is also a fact and working with a lawyer you probably got to see more of those who have broken the law than those who have observed it.

We all here support legal immigration and many are as frustrated as you are by those who do violate the terms of their visa. Just don't make such absolute statements that all those who seek visitor visas are fraudulent and only trying to find ways to circumvent the immigration process. The OP was not asking about people who try to circumvent the immigration process and we have gone far off of the posted topic with this discussion - which is not about fraud but asking for examples of visitor visas that have been granted without strong evidence of ties to the home country.

Kathryn41, I am VERY IMPRESS with what you stated here. It shows you DEEPLY understands the way of the world.

Noah Lot, I can understand that when you are close to "ugliness", it will rub off on you. I will help my father in law petiton for a B2 Visa.

I will write in a letter of invite and fill the I-134 when the time comes. My thinking on this is the letter of invite will carry much weight, even if it not require and not legal.

It serves to the CO that I am in good standing with the government because in my field of work, I have to remain ethical in all areas. One mishap and my career could be in jeopardy.

I am hoping the CO looks at the letter with "my character" in mind and judge that the father-in-law will not use the visa for FRAUDALENT intent, but simply to visit his daughter and to open his eyes to new experiences. Experiences that I am able to help grant!

[Noah Lot 387]

Kathryn41, I am VERY IMPRESS with what you stated here. It shows you DEEPLY understands the way of the world.

Noah Lot, I can understand that when you are close to "ugliness", it will rub off on you. I will help my father in law petiton for a B2 Visa.

I will write in a letter of invite and fill the I-134 when the time comes. My thinking on this is the letter of invite will carry much weight, even if it not require and not legal.

It serves to the CO that I am in good standing with the government because in my field of work, I have to remain ethical in all areas. One mishap and my career could be in jeopardy.

I am hoping the CO looks at the letter with "my character" in mind and judge that the father-in-law will not use the visa for FRAUDALENT intent, but simply to visit his daughter and to open his eyes to new experiences. Experiences that I am able to help grant!

the thing is...you cannot take responsibility for your FIL's actions. Your pedigree is not being assessed. Your 'character' has nothing to do with a tourist visa interview, because you are not the applicant. The INA is very specific on this subject....every applicant seeking a nonimmigrant visa (subject to 214b) is presumed to be an intending immigrant until such time as he or she (NOT other relatives or friends) convinces a consular officer that they will depart the US after a visit of appropriate duration and not violate the terms of the visa.

There is no language that references the outcome of a visa interview to the 'character' of anyone sending an invitation letter or an I-134. Nothing.

A invitation letter carries NO weight whatsoever during a visa interview. You cannot guarantee that your FIL will abide by the terms of a visa because you do not have any legal authority over him. Your specific government job is not 'on the line' should he overstay or engage in unauthorized employment. Now, you may doubt this, so....please...find that section in the Immigration and Nationality Act that disproves what I have just said.

[Noah Lot 387]

the thing is...you cannot take responsibility for your FIL's actions. Your pedigree is not being assessed. Your 'character' has nothing to do with a tourist visa interview, because you are not the applicant. The INA is very specific on this subject....every applicant seeking a nonimmigrant visa (subject to 214b) is presumed to be an intending immigrant until such time as he or she (NOT other relatives or friends) convinces a consular officer that they will depart the US after a visit of appropriate duration and not violate the terms of the visa.

There is no language that references the outcome of a visa interview to the 'character' of anyone sending an invitation letter or an I-134. Nothing.

A invitation letter carries NO weight whatsoever during a visa interview. You cannot guarantee that your FIL will abide by the terms of a visa because you do not have any legal authority over him. Your specific government job is not 'on the line' should he overstay or engage in unauthorized employment. Now, you may doubt this, so....please...find that section in the Immigration and Nationality Act that disproves what I have just said.

better yet....go the websites of any of our embassies around the world, to the 'nonimmigrant' visa section or icon, click on that and read what they have to say about invitation letters, and 'vouching' for applicants, etc. it is quite clear.

[Harsh_77 716]

Kathryn41, I am VERY IMPRESS with what you stated here. It shows you DEEPLY understands the way of the world.

Noah Lot, I can understand that when you are close to "ugliness", it will rub off on you. I will help my father in law petiton for a B2 Visa.

I will write in a letter of invite and fill the I-134 when the time comes. My thinking on this is the letter of invite will carry much weight, even if it not require and not legal.

It serves to the CO that I am in good standing with the government because in my field of work, I have to remain ethical in all areas. One mishap and my career could be in jeopardy.

I am hoping the CO looks at the letter with "my character" in mind and judge that the father-in-law will not use the visa for FRAUDALENT intent, but simply to visit his daughter and to open his eyes to new experiences. Experiences that I am able to help grant!

Unfortunately letter of invite does not carry any weight at all nor does your statement that financially you will be responsible for FIL.

Every tourist visa is granted based on their independent case, mainly every applicant has to show enough evidence that they would not overstay their visa and would return home.

Mostly ppl show strong ties at home which gives a reason for them to return back to home country.

CO’s consider various things like country of application, age, financial responsibilities etc. before approving or disapproving a case.

[Noah Lot 387]

Unfortunately letter of invite does not carry any weight at all nor does your statement that financially you will be responsible for FIL.

Every tourist visa is granted based on their independent case, mainly every applicant has to show enough evidence that they would not overstay their visa and would return home.

Mostly ppl show strong ties at home which gives a reason for them to return back to home country.

CO’s consider various things like country of application, age, financial responsibilities etc. before approving or disapproving a case.

This copied from one embassy's website, FAQs, nonimmigrant visas:

If I present a letter of guarantee of return from a person of high stature, will I get a visa?

A letter of guarantee is insufficient to fully establish an applicant's qualifications for a visa, or to establish the applicant's social, family, and economic ties to the Philippines. U.S. law requires that each applicant qualify for a visa based upon his or her own ties.

Will it help my application if I present a letter from my relative's U.S. Congressman or Senator?

Such letters will be considered. However, evaluation of the application will be made in accordance with Section 214(b) of the United States Immigration and Nationality Act. Visa applications are adjudicated based on individual merits, consistent with criteria specified in the Immigration Act, as amended, and the Federal regulations issued pursuant to it. Consular officers are required to deny visas to applicants who cannot qualify under the law, and to issue visas to those applicants who do qualify. Consular officers cannot issue visas based on the assurances of family members, friends or interested third parties.

(Please note the wording in each paragraph, especially the last sentence of the last paragraph)

[villaspurs 65]

This copied from one embassy's website, FAQs, nonimmigrant visas:

If I present a letter of guarantee of return from a person of high stature, will I get a visa?

A letter of guarantee is insufficient to fully establish an applicant's qualifications for a visa, or to establish the applicant's social, family, and economic ties to the Philippines. U.S. law requires that each applicant qualify for a visa based upon his or her own ties.

Will it help my application if I present a letter from my relative's U.S. Congressman or Senator?

Such letters will be considered. However, evaluation of the application will be made in accordance with Section 214(b) of the United States Immigration and Nationality Act. Visa applications are adjudicated based on individual merits, consistent with criteria specified in the Immigration Act, as amended, and the Federal regulations issued pursuant to it. Consular officers are required to deny visas to applicants who cannot qualify under the law, and to issue visas to those applicants who do qualify. Consular officers cannot issue visas based on the assurances of family members, friends or interested third parties.

(Please note the wording in each paragraph, especially the last sentence of the last paragraph)

Noah Lot, I don't think most people assume a letter is enough or that a letter alone will get someone a tourist visa, especially if the applicant can't show strong ties to his/her home country. Rather, the letter is one piece of the application--a piece that will be considered in conjunction with other evidence (as articulated quite clearly in your quoted info from the Phils consulate). This does clearly state that letters will be considered. At some consulates they will carry more weight than others, clearly, but they obviously can be useful.

[Harsh_77 716]

Noah Lot, I don't think most people assume a letter is enough or that a letter alone will get someone a tourist visa, especially if the applicant can't show strong ties to his/her home country. Rather, the letter is one piece of the application--a piece that will be considered in conjunction with other evidence (as articulated quite clearly in your quoted info from the Phils consulate). This does clearly state that letters will be considered. At some consulates they will carry more weight than others, clearly, but they obviously can be useful.

Villaspurs – Most ppl like me Noah say same thing over and over letter of invitation are not the only thing on which CO makes his/her decision.

Unfortunately there are lots of ppl who think otherwise and completely believe that their letter of invite and letter of sponsorship, letter guaranteeing applicant would return back are sufficient and the applicant should get visa based on it.

[Noah Lot 387]

Noah Lot, I don't think most people assume a letter is enough or that a letter alone will get someone a tourist visa, especially if the applicant can't show strong ties to his/her home country. Rather, the letter is one piece of the application--a piece that will be considered in conjunction with other evidence (as articulated quite clearly in your quoted info from the Phils consulate). This does clearly state that letters will be considered. At some consulates they will carry more weight than others, clearly, but they obviously can be useful.

"Consideration' is a long way from being useful, especially as noted that such a letter will not sway a borderline decision. The consular folks are only required to look at a letter from a congressman or senator; they are not required to issue any visa just because some representative asks them to. Most of these letters are little more than a boiler plate paragraph attached to some letter written by the relative or friend; the odds would be astronomical that one of our congressmen or senators actually knows some random visa applicant...probably on the order of 3 billion to one. All these letters do really is reiterate why the applicant wants to go to the US along with a reiteration of the 'assurances' from said relative or friend that the applicant won't abuse the visa...but at the end of the day, such assurances are meaningless because there is absolutely NO ENFORCEMENT MECHANISM built into our legal structure. Promises given by anyone, including the applicant or his/her relative, have zero value because there is no downside when that promise gets broken, therefore, the consular folks are not going to give any weight to such statements.

One person, even a congressman, cannot 'vouch' for another's behavior. Congressmen do not have any authority over anyone who is in the US of A...they cannot order you, me nor anyone else to do anything. They also have no authority over our embassies...for the simple reason that congress is in the Legislative branch, while the State Dep is in the Executive branch...and, if you recall from Govt 101, no branch of our government can tell another what to do....and congressmen are not in charge of individual's actions.

[MalaysianGirl 26]

I didn't read all the posts in this thread, except the first, so please forgive me if I am reiterating what others have already said...

I personally don't think a letter of invitation will help an application for a tourist (B2) visa, because I am of the opinion that the visa will only be granted based on the circumstances of the applicant himself/herself, not on who is in the US. If it works for others, then so be it, but I personally wouldn't put too much weight, if at all, on a letter of invitation.

The "strongest ties" requirement is the most important when it comes to applying for a B2 visa. That's what I fulfilled when I applied (and received) my B2 visa.