age different

[ya falaha! 0]

And if you're married to one from ME/NA culture for a long period of time you learn the "rules". I've learned I can express my opinions and disagree but in a different manner than many American women would. I've seen women scream at their husbands or bfs in public calling them all kinds of names. ME/NA women would NEVER nor would the men tolerate that. You take your disagreements up at home in private.

Actually its not that. In the ME/NA the women are alot less likely to backtalk. They do what their husbands want. So you don't have women playing games or doing the stuff we do here in the USA , the man is the head of the family there and makes all the rule, what he says goes.

women in mena don't backtalk? oh right

Women that are born and raised there...no. Women like me that were not raised in their home countries, HELL YES

In my last trip to Jordan, I kinda liberated a few of my cousins. Lets just say their husbands were not pleased

[jordanianprincess 0]

My fiance gets extremely offended by the following words: Jerk, Liar, Shut-up. I mean these are mild compared to other words I have used Its a totally different ball game.

And if you're married to one from ME/NA culture for a long period of time you learn the "rules". I've learned I can express my opinions and disagree but in a different manner than many American women would. I've seen women scream at their husbands or bfs in public calling them all kinds of names. ME/NA women would NEVER nor would the men tolerate that. You take your disagreements up at home in private.

Actually its not that. In the ME/NA the women are alot less likely to backtalk. They do what their husbands want. So you don't have women playing games or doing the stuff we do here in the USA , the man is the head of the family there and makes all the rule, what he says goes.

women in mena don't backtalk? oh right

Women that are born and raised there...no. Women like me that were not raised in their home countries, HELL YES

In my last trip to Jordan, I kinda liberated a few of my cousins. Lets just say their husbands were not pleased

[deeshla 0]

Again, deeshla, I agree with you. I like the way you think. What you say is so true not only in Morocco but in Egypt and I'm sure much of the ME/NA. That's what I was trying to say in my posts but ppl took it the wrong way. Young ME/NA men do not marry much older Western women for love alone. This is not saying they don't love their wives. But love is not the deciding factor.

Exactly I agree with you too. And, btw, I am 2 years older than my Moroccan husband. This has been a very personal issue for me, as well.

Amanda

[ya falaha! 0]

As I mentioned before I'm 4 yrs older than mine and it's an issue for me as well. Personally If I were in my late 30s-40s I wouldn't marry a man in his 20's. It would be WAY too much of an issue for me.

Again, deeshla, I agree with you. I like the way you think. What you say is so true not only in Morocco but in Egypt and I'm sure much of the ME/NA. That's what I was trying to say in my posts but ppl took it the wrong way. Young ME/NA men do not marry much older Western women for love alone. This is not saying they don't love their wives. But love is not the deciding factor.

Exactly I agree with you too. And, btw, I am 2 years older than my Moroccan husband. This has been a very personal issue for me, as well.

Amanda

[honeyblonde 0]

Love is rarely the deciding factor in traditional ME/NA marriages anyway.

Abdel and I have discussed this and it is very true. With both of his parents deceased his odds of marriage were much lower then they would have been even before when he was just a poor boy with 6 brothers and 2 sisters. When a male has no father to arrange his marriage (or a girl no father to accept an arrangement) it makes it even harder.

Abdel is from Taza which is a rather modern city in the northern part of the country and he said arranged marriages are still quite common there even. When he talks of his friends who are married the stories usually include a father asking for a girls hand for his son from the girls father. He said that many times the boy and girl have never even spoken before they are engaged. Maybe the boy will have seen the girl and thought she was pretty and decided he wanted to marry her. Maybe it will all be arranged by parents and the kids won't even know each other beforehand. Usually the girl is at least given the option to say no, but not always even there. He did say that more young ladies are being allowed to marry for love now though, so the country is changing, even if slowly.

When Abdel met me and I actually would talk to him he says he felt like I was the wife his fate had chosen for him and he would accept that fate. He says he's lucky fate chose a beautiful smart wife for him. I'm glad he thinks I'm beautiful and smart! Sometimes after we have a deep discussion he will look at me and say something like "I don't know how men handle it when fate brings them a stupid wife. I don't think I could be married to a stupid woman and be happy." He honestly doesn't think of divorce as an option when we fight or he is unhappy. He just seems to accept his fate and know that he has to make it work.

With a culture like theirs, men like my husband not only don't have the financial means to propose marriage, they don't even have the proper people in their lives to help set it up.

Sorry for the misquote. That was said by Just Waiting, not Jordanian Princess. Sometimes deleting inside quotes leaves the wrong references.

Edited September 27, 2006 by honeyblonde

[ya falaha! 0]

Oh God I was once having an disagreement with my ex husband and I said the word, SOB. I wasn't saying it to him it was more like....SOB I wish this argument was over. I wasn't calling him a SOB. Well he was PISSED. We were eating taco bell and he took my taco and whipped it at the wall. I NEVER used that word again and I NEVER called him a name..to his face

My fiance gets extremely offended by the following words: Jerk, Liar, Shut-up. I mean these are mild compared to other words I have used Its a totally different ball game.

And if you're married to one from ME/NA culture for a long period of time you learn the "rules". I've learned I can express my opinions and disagree but in a different manner than many American women would. I've seen women scream at their husbands or bfs in public calling them all kinds of names. ME/NA women would NEVER nor would the men tolerate that. You take your disagreements up at home in private.

Actually its not that. In the ME/NA the women are alot less likely to backtalk. They do what their husbands want. So you don't have women playing games or doing the stuff we do here in the USA , the man is the head of the family there and makes all the rule, what he says goes.

women in mena don't backtalk? oh right

Women that are born and raised there...no. Women like me that were not raised in their home countries, HELL YES

In my last trip to Jordan, I kinda liberated a few of my cousins. Lets just say their husbands were not pleased

[jordanianprincess 0]

My fiance gets upset but he is really good at controlling his temper. He will usually stay quiet and then discuss it with me later. If he whipped my taco against the wall, I don't think I could handle that. I don't know what would upset me more, the fact that he threw it against the wall, or the fact that took my taco.

Oh God I was once having an disagreement with my ex husband and I said the word, SOB. I wasn't saying it to him it was more like....SOB I wish this argument was over. I wasn't calling him a SOB. Well he was PISSED. We were eating taco bell and he took my taco and whipped it at the wall. I NEVER used that word again and I NEVER called him a name..to his face

My fiance gets extremely offended by the following words: Jerk, Liar, Shut-up. I mean these are mild compared to other words I have used Its a totally different ball game.

And if you're married to one from ME/NA culture for a long period of time you learn the "rules". I've learned I can express my opinions and disagree but in a different manner than many American women would. I've seen women scream at their husbands or bfs in public calling them all kinds of names. ME/NA women would NEVER nor would the men tolerate that. You take your disagreements up at home in private.

Actually its not that. In the ME/NA the women are alot less likely to backtalk. They do what their husbands want. So you don't have women playing games or doing the stuff we do here in the USA , the man is the head of the family there and makes all the rule, what he says goes.

women in mena don't backtalk? oh right

Women that are born and raised there...no. Women like me that were not raised in their home countries, HELL YES

In my last trip to Jordan, I kinda liberated a few of my cousins. Lets just say their husbands were not pleased

[StupidJourney 0]

My fiance gets really offended by words like that too! It kind of surprised me the first time, I can't remember what I said either. Oh, now I remembered. I called him silly and he thought that silly meant stupid! We had a huge conversation about it! I've had a few slip ups since then (let's just say I have kind of a potty mouth and I'm trying to break myself out of the habit!). After one of the last incidents, he said "do you ever hear those words out of my mouth?" and I realized the answer was no. Maybe he thought it, but he had enough respect for me to keep his mouth shut. I think they're more sensitive to the type of language used. You can get your opinions out, but that kind of language isn't necessary. It's often an easier way to get your point across, but I guess it's not always the best. (Let's not even talk about the time when I swore in Arabic!! that was definitely in the top 5 of fights!)

My fiance gets extremely offended by the following words: Jerk, Liar, Shut-up. I mean these are mild compared to other words I have used Its a totally different ball game.

And if you're married to one from ME/NA culture for a long period of time you learn the "rules". I've learned I can express my opinions and disagree but in a different manner than many American women would. I've seen women scream at their husbands or bfs in public calling them all kinds of names. ME/NA women would NEVER nor would the men tolerate that. You take your disagreements up at home in private.

Actually its not that. In the ME/NA the women are alot less likely to backtalk. They do what their husbands want. So you don't have women playing games or doing the stuff we do here in the USA , the man is the head of the family there and makes all the rule, what he says goes.

women in mena don't backtalk? oh right

Women that are born and raised there...no. Women like me that were not raised in their home countries, HELL YES

In my last trip to Jordan, I kinda liberated a few of my cousins. Lets just say their husbands were not pleased

[honeyblonde 0]

Abdel doesn't get mad if I use bad words, as long as they aren't aimed at him. If I am mad and say something he sees as an insult (even if that wasn't my intent) he will get this puppydog look on his face and say "I would never hurt you, why do you hurt me?" I wish I had the control of my mouth as much as he does!

He has been shocked at how the F word and other similar words are so mainstream here.

[sarah and hicham 3]

The only words Hicham teaches me in Arabic are insults or swear words and he always laughs when I say them. If we argue, and I bust out my Arabic vocabulary, he just laughs and it ends the argument luckily. Since he has been here we haven't even been able to have a real argument (not that I am complaining), we just start laughing and neither of us can help it.

[doodlebug 3]

I taught Usama how to say a few Bostonian swear words.

[Ban Hammer 12,837]

My fiance gets extremely offended by the following words: Jerk, Liar, Shut-up. I mean these are mild compared to other words I have used Its a totally different ball game.

i would be too if i was him

As I mentioned before I'm 4 yrs older than mine and it's an issue for me as well. Personally If I were in my late 30s-40s I wouldn't marry a man in his 20's. It would be WAY too much of an issue for me.

well, mathmatically, 20 goes into 40 more than 40 goes into 20

[honeyblonde 0]

The only words Hicham teaches me in Arabic are insults or swear words and he always laughs when I say them. If we argue, and I bust out my Arabic vocabulary, he just laughs and it ends the argument luckily. Since he has been here we haven't even been able to have a real argument (not that I am complaining), we just start laughing and neither of us can help it.

I didnt' think Abdel and I would ever argue much either. We didn't for the first probably 8 months he was here, but now that he is dealing with frustrations at work and we have a lot of bills and stuff and I'm back in school (as in lots more stress basically) we have had more disagreements.

I'm glad though that we're fussing because it means we understand each other and are taking time to communicate on a very deep level. If we never disagreed on anything I would think something was wrong. I'm glad he is opening up and expressing his opinion more now - even if I don't always agree with it.

[morocco4ever 63]

Wow, I go to the doctor and see what happens????

I am late getting in on this.

While the Prophet did not marry Khadija for a greencard, he also didn't marry her because he was "in love" with her.

I am not really sure what hashouma means, but to say that the attraction would not be there if we aren't American citizens is generalizing things a bit. Maybe that is not what you meant to say, I would hope not. If you are Muslim then I am sure you are quite aware that the Prophet Mohammed,s (PBUH) first and most prized wife was indeed several years older than him. Did he do it for some form of US citizenship? Maybe he felt sorry for her? I honestly doubt that. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, so don't be so harsh. I know that isn't what you meant.

BTW, I am older than my husband, and I do know for a fact that the attraction is there. I get "hit on" by men of all ages here in the US, I was even called once a "hot momma" by a man my daugthers age. No, I am not bragging, just want you to understand that older doesn't always mean unattractive by any sense of the word.

Ramadan Karim to all.

Oh I hope I am doing the quote thing right. In Bosco's opinion, why did he marry her then? And what is this referenced from?

And we can all come around full circle on this, having discussed these "social implications" tirelessly on this forum, to say that IF a couple is honest and forthcoming about their relationship with each other and when presenting it to the Consulate they can better their chances of proving their relationship "valid". Perhaps what exactly constitutes a "valid relationship" and to whom is where the problems arise. Even if a couple of older/younger are cognizant of all these factors and still accept each other fully aware in a commited and agreed up relationship, does this "invalidate" the relationship or does it just make seem less savory to those who prefer another perspective?

I would think that being a Consular Officer would be very difficult, especially in high fraud countries. They basically judge a relationship from what they have on paper and from a 5 minute drilling session to see if the person knows everything about their fiance without hesitation. I always wonder if the Consulate has guidelines or an actual list of red flags that they use in considering and approving or denying a case. I guess tha will be the age long question that no one will ever really know. I also wonder if they have their minds made up before the fiance/husband/wife even enters the Consulate for the interview.

I think it is important that the CO takes these older women/younger men relationships very seriously, but not just theirs. Lets face it, any woman that has certain characteristics that makes them an "easy target" for men that are looking for a visa. This would not only include older women, but large women, and unattractive women. So really, older women is just one group.

Again, deeshla, I agree with you. I like the way you think. What you say is so true not only in Morocco but in Egypt and I'm sure much of the ME/NA. That's what I was trying to say in my posts but ppl took it the wrong way. Young ME/NA men do not marry much older Western women for love alone. This is not saying they don't love their wives. But love is not the deciding factor.

I was discussing this with my husband last night. He said that if all borders were opened to Moroccans then the only one left in Morocco would be the king. lol

I am not surprised that these men search for love outside of Morocco. I as well had certain things I was looking for in a man. The only difference is which ones are doing it for the visa alone, and which ones honestly wanted to find love, along with some security. I don't have a problem at all if they look for love outside of Morocco, but I am dead set against anyone who is using a woman for a visa alone. That is just plain cruel! It's not our place to judge anyone elses situations, that is ours as the one in the relationship. Hopefully our eyes are wide open and ready to accept the worst if that is what the truth is. Don't think for one minute I didn't mistrust my husband right from the start. I played games with him, teased him, tortured him long before I actually let him into my heart...lol But I found out his intentions are pure. He knows now all of the "games" I was playing, and he totally understands. He told me that there are many men there, just as you said, in the cyber cafes praying on innocent women.

Yep

I know MANY ME/NA couples (husband and wife from the same culture) that have really strong marriages. They're in it for the long haul. Some of them only met once before getting married. They didn't get married for love but they do love and respect each other. That's why I don't understand why ppl get offended when I say these men aren't marrying the women for love. Usually it's young, poor ME/NA men who can't afford to marry a woman from their country so they look to Western women who don't have the cultural requirements. Most of these women happen to be older. They're financially secure and that's very attractive to these young, poor men. These men may have good intentions and develop true love feelings for these women. On the other hand..they may not and may be in it only for what they can get.

i'm sure some of it is less bs too. an older woman knows what is important and what's not in a relationship, and the usual games a young woman might use to get her way don't happen with an older woman. and then there is also the song "older women know just how to please a man."

From the words of Benny Hill:

Give me an older woman every time every time, give me an older woman every time.

Cuz she don't scream and she don't yell, and she's grateful as hell, give me an older woman every time.

[Together4ever 1]

Mohammed is the first person to teach me that a fight doesn't mean "the end". We can disagree extremely passionately, practically foaming at the mouth at each other sometimes, but soon he says to me "settle down now" and we both calm down and put it behind us. Never in my life has it been "ok" to fight. Talk about repressed. Blah.

We're comfortable with who we are as a couple. It works for us. Any person who has gotten to know us has always remarked how we just seem born for each other and so easy together despite any age difference. My friend Hazel cried more then I did when I had to leave Egypt. She was hugging us both and wailing "But you guys LOVE each other... you love each other..." That lovely Irish lady could give the most wonderful hugs!

And yes I remember once in the middle of a fight using "SOB" (I was EXTREMELY angry) and had no idea how he was going to take it. His eyes went black as night and I knew I had really stepped in it. After a lot of frantic explaining, he then understood it wasn't intended the way he took it but I never made the mistake again. Oh... and never shut the door to an Egyptian man in anger.

The language barrier can be pretty delicate sometimes. There has been a word he has been using a lot lately that has been rubbing me raw and when I was about to blow over it one night I asked "what do you think that word means?" (through clenched teeth) He told me and discovered he didn't really know its accurate meaning. That's the trouble with English, so much slang, double meanings, and so many words for generally the same thing with slightly different meanings. We even have words of our own. LOL