n00b question re nvc process

[vcnt 0]

Hi, everyone. I'm new to this forum and I have to say I'm pretty disoriented and intimidated by all the jargon and acronyms ... please forgive me if I'm not up to speed on all the latest (or even the basics) ... this goes for all the rules, procedures, etc., as well as our own situation, which I'll try to explain as best I can.

So I'm American, and my wife is Swiss. We were married in NY in March 2010 (I guess while she was in the US on a tourist visa) and immediately put in the paperwork (I-130) with USCIS (along with whatever the accompanying documents are ... I forget what exactly, but I guess marriage certificate, primarily). I'm pretty sure this paperwork reflected the fact that, in March 2010, we were both living in NY. In April, however, we both moved to Switzerland. The move was at least partially motivated by economics / the job situation: I had been unemployed in NY, and my wife had a job contract lined up to start in April 2010.

So there ya go, nothing really happened until September 2010, when what I believe you call NOA2 happened. USCIS said they'd be passing our stuff onto NVC and we got a case number instead of a receipt number. Unfortunately, maybe because I wasn't at my NY apartment to receive any important mail, the NVC process didn't really get started until April 2011, when we established email contact with them. We informed them of the change of address to Switzerland.

We paid the fees, and then, I think in June/July, they sent requests for a laundry list of stuff from the wife, and the Affidavit of Support from me. Wife (typically Swiss) submitted all her stuff pretty much immediately. Because I didn't have my taxes sorted, however, I became the bottleneck.

My first I-864ez was returned because I didn't include my 2010 taxes (I thought maybe I could get away with that since the "priority date" shown on NVC's correspondence is April 2010). Well, truth is, I wasn't required to file for 2010 because I had no income. But to qualify as a sponsor, I need to not be poor.

Another problem, according to NVC: "income indicated on the I-864 Part 19 does not correspond to that shown on the most recent tax return and W-2s" ... well, that's because my job situation has changed, from 2009 (decent income, well over 150% poverty), to 2010 (no income), to 2011 (Swiss income, even less poor). So when I fill in "current income" I'm indicating what I earn here in Switzerland, converted to US$.

So this brings me to my questions:

1. Should I include my Swiss work contract and/or salary statements with my new I-864ez (which will reveal my 2010 income of $0)? When we move back to the US, the source of any income I earn will necessarily come from a different source. The same goes for my wife, which is the reason why I wouldn't go for an I-864 (as opposed to an I-864ez). Does it count for anything, or is the relevant inquiry only whether or not I have a steady source of income within the US?

2. Regarding domicile, I have maintained myself as the primary lease-holder in my NY apartment. I also still have my US bank account. Is that good enough to non-controversially assert that I am US domiciled?

3. From this website, I am for the first time learning of this possibility of "Direct Consulate Filing," which from my current perspective, better matches our situation. I've now been living here for over 1.5 years, and we're both here, living a decent life together as a married couple. I feel like this CR-1 process we're in was designed contemplating one spouse waiting in the US and the other waiting in his/her home country for permission to reunite ... which to me seems pretty nutty. Is there any sense in me thinking along these lines, that DCF somehow "fits" our actual situation better? This note on the US Embassy's website is not encouraging.

[canadian_wife 1,831]

1. No, YOU must show support, not your wife. Your wife's swiss income doesn't matter in this process. The I864 is about how you can and will support her financially in the US

2. Not sure how the Swiss rank domicile in the US, Montreal pretty much demands the US move before the immigrant. But your lease and bank accounts are good

3. To DCF you'd have to start again. You started this process while you were in the US, you cannot change it now, espeically so close to the end. Send NVC their required documents and wait for the interview

Good luck

[vcnt 0]

Hey, thank you very much for your quick response. But does my swiss income matter? If all they look at is my latest (2010) US tax return, it looks like I'm a filthy beggar. If, however, they take into consideration my 2008 & 2009 US earnings, then maybe I'm a productive member of society. But if they take accept the income I am earning here in Switzerland in 2011, then I'm in even better shape. Does it count for nothing?

1. No, YOU must show support, not your wife. Your wife's swiss income doesn't matter in this process. The I864 is about how you can and will support her financially in the US

[canadian_wife 1,831]

Have you not been filing US tax returns as you are supposed to?

Yes, your Swiss income does count, you still need to file US tax returns on foreign income. Easy fix to this problem

Good luck

[Penguin_ie 6,005]

While you need to file taxes with the IRS for your Swiss income, it only counts if it will continue once you move back to the USA, which presumably it will not. So your options are:

- sponsor on assets

- get a US based co-sponsor

- move to the US ahead of your wife and get a job before sending in the I-864.

You have already started the process and are a good bit into it, so DCF would be no time saving for you. In any case, Switzerland has no USCIS office, thus DCF is not possible.

[bigdog 377]

Good luck on your process.

[pushbrk 14,263]

No shortcuts here. Tell the truth. If the truth doesn't qualify you, you're going to need either a qualified joint sponsor living in the USA, enough liquid assets to qualify on your own or to move back to the USA and get a job that will qualify you. When asked for current income, they are only concerned with income that will continue from the same source when you are in the USA. Prior tax returns are for historical purposes and will not help you qualify. You list your income as it shows on line 22 of a 1040 for prior years.

[vcnt 0]

Have you not been filing US tax returns as you are supposed to?

Yes, your Swiss income does count, you still need to file US tax returns on foreign income. Easy fix to this problem

Well I didn't file income taxes in 2010 because I wasn't required to; I had no income, in US or otherwise. I didn't volunteer this fact in my initial I-864ez filing, because -- perhaps foolishly, I'm perfectly willing to admit -- I thought I could squeak that one past the goalie, considering the fact that, with a standard 6 month extension of time to file, it's certainly plausible that, as of August 2011, my "last three years" tax returns were 2009, 2008, and 2007.

Anyways, since then, I have filed taxes for 2010, and, as soon as I can, I will file 2011 taxes (considering I made a decent amount, and, I believe, it's all under the threshold amount where US taxes on foreign earned income would kick in).

So my dilemma really is how to handle the I-864 for the next go round. It sounds like at least one person in the thread, Penguin, thinks they won't be positively impressed by my Swiss earnings. In that case, it's suggested I go with assets or a co-sponsor (I don't want to be separated). I'm fairly certain that collectively my wife and I do have the assets to qualify. If it's just my assets, however, I'm not so sure.

If we have to go with a co-sponsor, does that imply rebooting the entire process, or is it just a matter of getting my Mom to complete the form? I mean, on the old I-130, I was my wife's sponsor ... or is the Affidavit of Support sponsor an entirely separable sense of the word?

But all this agony over whether I make enough money in the US, where I am not currently residing ... it just seems silly, and is the reason I ask about going the DCF route ... it seems like, if you do it that way, then everyone's on the same page ... you don't have a US income because you're not in the US. Yes, I realize that, as of August 15, 2011, DCF is no longer possible in Switzerland, but I guess it's more or less an academic question. Just curious.

[vcnt 0]

When asked for current income, they are only concerned with income that will continue from the same source when you are in the USA.

Well all I can say is that's interesting, because it doesn't say that in the form or its instructions. To me "current income" is current income, regardless of source or what country the job's in. You'd think that, if they meant income that would continue from the same source after relocation, they would specify that, as they do when talking about the immigrating spouse's income. But I guess you might say the assumption of the entire process is that I'm maintaining my residence and employment in the US while my wife is patiently waiting overseas. I just find that so perverse; it reminds me of the quarantine period they impose on pets whose owners make international moves.

[pushbrk 14,263]

Well I didn't file income taxes in 2010 because I wasn't required to; I had no income, in US or otherwise. I didn't volunteer this fact in my initial I-864ez filing, because -- perhaps foolishly, I'm perfectly willing to admit -- I thought I could squeak that one past the goalie, considering the fact that, with a standard 6 month extension of time to file, it's certainly plausible that, as of August 2011, my "last three years" tax returns were 2009, 2008, and 2007.

Anyways, since then, I have filed taxes for 2010, and, as soon as I can, I will file 2011 taxes (considering I made a decent amount, and, I believe, it's all under the threshold amount where US taxes on foreign earned income would kick in).

So my dilemma really is how to handle the I-864 for the next go round. It sounds like at least one person in the thread, Penguin, thinks they won't be positively impressed by my Swiss earnings. In that case, it's suggested I go with assets or a co-sponsor (I don't want to be separated). I'm fairly certain that collectively my wife and I do have the assets to qualify. If it's just my assets, however, I'm not so sure.

If we have to go with a co-sponsor, does that imply rebooting the entire process, or is it just a matter of getting my Mom to complete the form? I mean, on the old I-130, I was my wife's sponsor ... or is the Affidavit of Support sponsor an entirely separable sense of the word?

But all this agony over whether I make enough money in the US, where I am not currently residing ... it just seems silly, and is the reason I ask about going the DCF route ... it seems like, if you do it that way, then everyone's on the same page ... you don't have a US income because you're not in the US. Yes, I realize that, as of August 15, 2011, DCF is no longer possible in Switzerland, but I guess it's more or less an academic question. Just curious.

Sponsorship requirements do not change based on filing DCF. You still need to convince a Consular Officer the intending immigrant can be supported through continuing US income or liquid assets.

[pushbrk 14,263]

Well all I can say is that's interesting, because it doesn't say that in the form or its instructions. To me "current income" is current income, regardless of source or what country the job's in. You'd think that, if they meant income that would continue from the same source after relocation, they would specify that, as they do when talking about the immigrating spouse's income. But I guess you might say the assumption of the entire process is that I'm maintaining my residence and employment in the US while my wife is patiently waiting overseas. I just find that so perverse; it reminds me of the quarantine period they impose on pets whose owners make international moves.

If you filed an I-864EZ, then you failed one of the first three questions that must be YES to qualify to use the EZ version. Question B.

I am using only my own earned or retirement income, which is

documented using IRS Form W-2.

U doubt you're getting an IRS Form W-2 from your Swiss employer.

Further, instructions don't mention your latest tax return. They say, "You must provide either an IRS transcript or a photocopy

from your own records of your Federal individual income tax return for the most recent tax year.

And finally, number 18 in the step by step instructions says, Enter your current individual earned or retirement annual

income that you are using to meet the requirements of this form and indicate the total on this line.

Since you must use W2 income, and you have no W2 income, your income entered would be zero. But, you don't qualify to use this EZ form anyway.

For the I-864 which you must use, you'll find in section 25 of the step by step instructions, the following statement.

For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered whendetermining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ,the line for adjusted gross income will be considered.

Total income is found on line 22 of a 1040. It does not include foreign income, which has already been subtracted, if applicable.

Edited November 6, 2011 by pushbrk

[vcnt 0]

So I guess I did more homework and am answering my own question. Anybody more experienced who wants to verify or challenge my conclusions are certainly more than welcome to do so. I actually already submitted my second I-864ez with the 2010 zero income tax return, so I suppose I'll be waiting a few days to see what they come back with on that.

If they're not satisfied, it looks like the way to go is with assets. Together we do have enough cash in the banks to reach 3 x 125% poverty. I wasn't sure if only my assets counted, or the wife's as well, or if there might be some kind of requirement that the cash reside in the US. Looks like the immigrating spouse's assets count with no catches, and I can add up the bank accounts whichever country they're in. So ... I imagine that bank statements suffice for proof, no?

It really still puzzles me that the NVC's letter indicated that it's some kind of problem that the "current income" I indicated on the form didn't correspond to the most recent tax return and W-2s. It's as if the bureaucracy is unaware of the fact that tax returns reflect the prior year's income, and that one's income is subject to change from year to year.

[pushbrk 14,263]

No need to wait for NVC. You do not qualify to use the EZ version. Use the I864 and send as soon as ready. Bank statements in English are fine.

[vcnt 0]

Hey, pushbrk, thanks for engaging with me while I try to work this out ... you do come across as a tad antagonistic, but I don't mind at all. I guess my newbish questions are bothersome to the pros.

If you filed an I-864EZ, then you failed one of the first three questions that must be YES to qualify to use the EZ version. Question B.

I am using only my own earned or retirement income, which is documented using IRS Form W-2.

I doubt you're getting an IRS Form W-2 from your Swiss employer.

Further, instructions don't mention your latest tax return. They say, "You must provide either an IRS transcript or a photocopy from your own records of your Federal individual income tax return for the most recent tax year.

And finally, number 18 in the step by step instructions says, Enter your current individual earned or retirement annual income that you are using to meet the requirements of this form and indicate the total on this line.

Since you must use W2 income, and you have no W2 income, your income entered would be zero. But, you don't qualify to use this EZ form anyway.

For the I-864 which you must use, you'll find in section 25 of the step by step instructions, the following statement.

For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ, the line for adjusted gross income will be considered.

Total income is found on line 22 of a 1040. It does not include foreign income, which has already been subtracted, if applicable.

Ok, well actually this instruction about which line to use from your 1040/A is identically reproduced in the instructions for the I-864ez. It's just that I haven't yet had the opportunity to file any tax return that involved foreign earned income; I first started getting paid overseas in 2011. So, with respect to all relevant years' tax returns, any qualifying income I would have been relying on to meet the form's requirements, were in fact documented in prior year W-2s. And when the form asks my "current income," that's exactly what I input. Even had I been earning this income in the US, I couldn't very well wait for it to appear on a W-2, for by then it would be last year's income.

That's the thing, the section asking about "current income" is clearly separate from the section asking for prior years tax information, and they only ask that you attach prior years tax returns. If the imperative of the whole process is that there be continuity throughout, i.e., the maintenance of your meager $18,387 salary over the course of not only the three prior years for which you duly filed with the IRS, but also of the year you submitted your I-130, the current year during which you patiently await word from Homeland Security, and the next year after that when you'll finally be allowed to reunite with your dearly beloved (on the condition that you keep him or her off food stamps), well then the form ought to be asking different questions.

The form, like most forms, contains some ambiguities. I do not think the form is infallible. But yes I would've preferred to get it right the first time, and I totally appreciate your help!

[Done--Really 331]

Vcnt...

here's the problem--you are thinking too much !!! There is only one way to make this work and that is to follow all the directions even when you think they make no sense--it doesn't matter what you think--or trying to find a short cut--there aren't any--or trying to get around them--you will fail !!!

So, just to be sure that you understand everything here:

1) Only income that continues after you return to the US--you and/or your spouse matters--NOTHING else counts

2) The current income line is an ESTIMATE of what you are earning for this year, but your Swiss income counts as ZERO so don't even THINK about using it

3) If you have the assets go for it (yo can use both yours and your wife's)--and stop messing around with I-864EZ--you never qualified for it from the very beginning

4) Get your mom lined up as joint sponsor just in case, and yes you are still THE sponsor, and she also fill out the I-864

The process is exceptionally easy in Switzerland, so just do it right this time...no sense wasting one second of additional energy trying to continue down the path you have been on--it is a dead end