AOS vs. tourist visa

[stinger157 0]

She deserves it then. Tough luck for them.

Now...back to THIS issue.

Where is it in this topic that this woman is purposely trying to circumvent the law?

You're accusing her of committing fraud, and no where from what I have read, is she trying to do so. My advice was based on the belief that she is honest, and not lying about her situation.

Hopefully she finds a good solution for her and her spouse.

I think it is interesting to see how you want to decide who what deserves...

But back to this case. If you read carefully through the postings you will see that the OP writes that this would be the fifth(!) time they would separate. This appears to me as a long term relationship.

Well, like you, the OP didn't think it is necessary to fill out a timelime or to offer some more information. With more information it would be easier to give the right hints. But so we can just asume that this is not her first time in the United States. Means, she and her boy friend should know at least a little bit about the different visa types. You can find something about visas on every embassy website and also on the websites of USCIS and the Department of State.

Getting a tourist visa is easier and faster than applying for a family related visa or a fiance(e) visa. I think you know enough about that.

Of course does it suck to be separated. But that is something her boy friend should have thought about before he brought her over on a tourist visa. Like I wrote before, it is her life he is playing with. NO matter how this case ends, if the relationship lasts or what they are deciding. In any case he can go on with his life as nothing has ever happened. If USCIS denies her, she can face serious consequences for the rest of her life or at least for a significant time.

Don't you think that it is too easy to say, go ahead, try your luck. You are not the one who is gambling. Who gives you the right to give people advises that can lead to serious consequences? Everything can be ok, but it doesn't have to.

I think whatever step she does next. She has to keep in mind that this can influence her life alot. And a simple "go for it" is the wrong signal in this situation.

If she is serious about her decission she should talk to her boyfriend and start the visa process while she is still here. That can shorten the time and maybe they are separated for a few weeks or months only. Of course no one can predict how long it will take. But it can be alot shorter than spending a forced time period abroad.

And to the OP and to you. It would be nice to see the timeline. So a few advises are more accurate and more helpful than just reacting on a few information given by the questioner. A filled out timeline doesn't mean that you have to give up your privacy. But it can be also a good measurement for someone in a similar situation.

Did you ever hear about visa fraud? Actually that is what I referred to in my first posting. Maybe you should read it again.

I've heard about cases where someone on a tourist visa married and thought she is one of the lucky persons who could save some time by bending the law a bit.

The last information I have that she is back in Poland waiting for the time after her ban.

Marriage doesn't grant you access automatically. That is what many don't understand.

stinger, you're assuming a lot of things here that the OP has not stated.

Like what?

[danae 0]

Did you ever hear about visa fraud? Actually that is what I referred to in my first posting. Maybe you should read it again.

I've heard about cases where someone on a tourist visa married and thought she is one of the lucky persons who could save some time by bending the law a bit.

The last information I have that she is back in Poland waiting for the time after her ban.

Marriage doesn't grant you access automatically. That is what many don't understand.

stinger, you're assuming a lot of things here that the OP has not stated.

Like what?

That she entered with intent to marry and remain. WHich she clearly states she did not.

[Satellite 1]

Stinger,

I think you are really confused about the law based on your statements.

First,

But that is something her boy friend should have thought about before he brought her over on a tourist visa.

Tourist visa has no connection to boyfriend. Tourist visa belongs to the applicant and the boyfriend can only offer financial support and be a cheerleader on the sidelines. But each applicant must prove their non-immigrant intent to the consulate on their own. The boyfriend if anything has a negative bearing on that. Thus, he did not "bring her over" on a tourist visa.

Second,

If she is serious about her decission she should talk to her boyfriend and start the visa process while she is still here.

That is exactly what a lot of posters have suggested. When you're applying for AOS you are actually starting the visa process. She will technically receive an immigrant visa at the adjustment because she is an immediate relative to her sponsor. Thus you don't have to return to your country to legitimately apply for an immigrant benefit such as an immigrant visa.

Third,

Since you have done a lot of assuming I feel it is fair that I do the same. In some cases like an overstay or unlawful work, if one returns to their country to do a K1 or CR1 they will get a 3 or 10 year bar if they try to return with their newly granted visa via your suggestion. While remaining in the US, never triggers those bars.

Finally, suppose problems do arise, you have many options of appeal. Including the Immigration Judge, BIA and then the circuit level. And during this time you remain in the US with your spouse. Where as if you leave and have problems, it is uncertain whether a US court has jurisdiction over the consulates and all the waiting processes occurs while you are apart.

[homesick_american 1]

Thank you so much for every advice. I'm totally aware that getting married while holding on tourist visa is the worst way. I wanted to do it right, but my boyfriend doesn't want me to go back to my country. If I did go back, it would be the 5th time we had to seperate. He just can't take it anymore that we have to be apart. I'll talk to my boyfriend again about this and let him read this thread.

Thanks a lot for your information, Satellite.

Three words:

DON'T DO IT.

[meauxna 15]

"Applying for a tourist visa with the plan to marry and to stay in the United States permanently is visa fraud."

The OP has said nothing of the sort. However, I can see posting this in a sort of general way. You immediately go on to:

"I think everyone here will tell you that the best way is to return back to your home country, apply for the proper visa and then you can enter and marry (K-1) or marry first, return to your home country and apply for a K-3 visa."

Then you think wrong. this person is in the US, has made a legal entry, and should discuss her options with an attorney, in private. She has not posted enough of anything to say what is a "best way".

"I am getting more and more irritated seeing people misusing this forum by trying to find ways around the usual visa process, not caring if that what they are doing could be illegal.

Probably most of these don't even care that this is a public forum and everyone, even USCIS, can read about their plans.

I see this forum as a place where everyone can find valuable information about the normal, and legal, visa process."

Adjustment from a non-immigrant option via marriage to a USC is normal, legal and in fact, the majority of new PR grants come from this type of AOS, as already noted. I'm sorry you find it irritating that not everyone is doing it the same way as you are, but that doesn't make her illegal, or even immoral. You are assuming that this person is trying to find a way around the usual visa process; I don't read that at all.

"Now that you explained the case a bit more I would really not recommend to marry while on the tourist visa. USCIS would question for sure if the marriage was soooo not planned."

Are you stating here that USCIS questions unplanned marriages? I'm just checking--I don't quite understand you here.

"Depending on the documents you had to submit the risk is too high. Go the usual way and stay away from every attempt to do something illegal."

Again you are assuming that she did or is attempting to do something illegal. What, exactly? Which documents did she submit which increase her risk?

"Finally it is up to your boyfriend to start the process. If he doesn't want you to leave, why didn't he start the process earlier?"

Maybe her boyfriend can not start the process. You still do not know what his citizenship is. Or perhaps they have just now reached the 'let's get married' stage.

"Well, maybe it is less emotionally draining to get deported and banned for several years than going the right way."

You make an immediate leap/assumption to deportation. For what? Where did that come from? What is the 'right' way? I could equally argue that the only 'right' way is to come in on a completed immigrant visa. If you don't like the law, work to change it, er, the 'right' way.

"What you do is up to you. But you should keep in mind which history you have with USCIS. If they several different cases with your name on it, it might be difficult to prove that your marriage was not planned."

You assume that she will have to prove that her marriage was not planned. History and user reports say otherwise.

"Did you ever hear about visa fraud?"

You're accusing her of visa fraud. Where does she say anything that leads you to that conclusion correctly? Are you sure?

"Marriage doesn't grant you access automatically. That is what many don't understand."

And some people don't understand the difference between someone who is inside the US vs someone who is not yet inside the US. Where did the OP state anything close to what you've paraphrased there?

"But back to this case. If you read carefully through the postings you will see that the OP writes that this would be the fifth(!) time they would separate. This appears to me as a long term relationship."

And? You think it's more OK for people who have not dated long to get married and immigrate than for people who've dated a long time, or visited each other much?

"Well, like you, the OP didn't think it is necessary to fill out a timelime or to offer some more information. With more information it would be easier to give the right hints."

By way of an aside, the woman doesn't HAVE anything to enter in a timeline, and if she doesn't, so freakin' what? You'll note that I also do not have a timeline. Mine would not be of use to anyone, and I was done with it by the time I joined VJ.

It took 33 days, btw.

We shouldn't have to give hints: just give her the correct information.

"Getting a tourist visa is easier and faster than applying for a family related visa or a fiance(e) visa."

So you are suggesting--scratch that, you've come out and said several times that this woman knowingly applied for a tourist visa with the intent to immigrate to the US because it was faster/easier than an immigrant type visa. How do you know this? What did she say that leads you to this? Again, I don't read it at all.

And as a matter of fact, very often, K visas ARE easier to get than tourist visas. Since we still do not know her citizenship/residence, we can't say either way which is easier/faster where she lives.

"Of course does it suck to be separated. But that is something her boy friend should have thought about before he brought her over on a tourist visa."

Boyfriends don't BRING people to the US with tourist visas. Sheesh. I know for a fact that if she has a tourist visa, she had to prove her OWN case/ties to her country, and she satisfied the Consular Officer in her home country.

I understand that you read this through your own lenses and came to some conclusions. I simply challenge you to read what she actually wrote, and not what you're filling in in between. I'm not here to vouch for her character or her plans.

In your passion, I think you overstated things, and assumed a lot that is not there.

These things *do* happen, and there is nothing wrong with this woman using the legally accpeted methods available to her, including adjustment of status if appropriate, to begin her immigration now.

In order to clear up all of the questions that can come up, she should meet with a lawyer who can evaluate HER specifics in private with HER.

Which I said first time 'round.

(sorry about the formatting. AND the hella long post. Did you know there's a limit to how many quotes you can add? )

Edited September 23, 2006 by meauxna

[danae 0]

Hi all....

I'd like to know if anyone here entered US. with a tourist visa, got married (unintentionally) and adjusted status to become a LPR......???

Did you have any problems with AOS?

What were you asked during the interview?

Did getting married while holding a tourist visa delay the process of obtaining your greencard?

Thank you so much

Applying for a tourist visa with the plan to marry and to stay in the United States permanently is visa fraud. I think everyone here will tell you that the best way is to return back to your home country, apply for the proper visa and then you can enter and marry (K-1) or marry first, return to your home country and apply for a K-3 visa.

I am getting more and more irritated seeing people misusing this forum by trying to find ways around the usual visa process, not caring if that what they are doing could be illegal.

Probably most of these don't even care that this is a public forum and everyone, even USCIS, can read about their plans.

I see this forum as a place where everyone can find valuable information about the normal, and legal, visa process.

In my opinion, every visa or every immigration or citizenship related document of someone who provided wrong information or didn't use the proper legal way to complete the necessary steps should be revoked. People who don't follow the established procedures to complete the immigration process are likely to leave the legal path every time law doesn't meet their convenience.

I agree wholeheartedly, We thought of going that route. But we wanted to do things right.

The answer to your queston is, Yes. This will effect you through the entire process. USCIS will look at every document and it will take a lot longer.

If you want the appearance to be the right one, return to your home country. Realize that you now can not use your wedding pictures, invitations, invoices. Being that you got "unintentionally married" you can not show any planning for that event, or you will prove that you commited fraud.

What are you talking about?? The OP clearly states he got married 'untentionally'- i.e. they had no intention to marry and remain whilst entering on the tourist visa. Are you just assuming they had intention because they married on a tourist visa??

Where is your evidence that it will 'take longer'? Sure USCIS will llok at eery document- they will in EVERY case. Sure the chances of an approval without interview are slim in tourist visa adjustments, but I would be interested to see actual figures that these cases take significantly longer.

And actually I entered on a tourist type visa (B1)- applied in July and have just recieved my interview date for November 7th!!! So your theory doenst really stand.

[meauxna 15]

Three words:

DON'T DO IT.

Care to share your reasoning?

[Peikko 1,575]

Intersting and informative post as always Meauxna

[aussiewench 9]

hafa_adai,

Be careful what you are reading in this thread; it's not all accurate.

What's your boyfriend's citizenship? What is your home country?

The only correct answer to give IMO (regardless of his citizenship) is that you should spend the money to CONSULT with an immigration attoryney who does family based cases. You can have your particular situation reviewed and get correct information on your options.

I agree 100%

Glad you caught this thread Mo and all the inaccurate information being spewed out

[homesick_american 1]

Three words:

DON'T DO IT.

Care to share your reasoning?

*shrug* Sounds like it would lead to trouble, but apparently people come into the US on tourist visas and get married all the time...sounds like some of them lie about it too. But hey, that's the govt's problem, not mine.

[pucklechurch 0]

If you get here on a tourist visa and consider AOS, as the OP is considering, then you simply say at your interview that you had no intention of staying when you first arrived (whether you married your partner on the spur of the moment or whether you'd been married for years). You maybe lying or you may be telling the truth but that's for you to know and for them to find out (which, unless you stick out like a sore thumb, they won't bother). And that's it. Your Green Card's in the mail and you didn't need to spend a day, a month or a year apart as you would if you took the K-1 visa route.

[Boiler 43,429]

Intersting and informative post as always Meauxna

I will second that.

Stinger, I have no idea where you are coming from but please do not in future mislead others because of your prejudices.

If you get here on a tourist visa and consider AOS, as the OP is considering, then you simply say at your interview that you had no intention of staying when you first arrived (whether you married your partner on the spur of the moment or whether you'd been married for years). You maybe lying or you may be telling the truth but that's for you to know and for them to find out (which, unless you stick out like a sore thumb, they won't bother). And that's it. Your Green Card's in the mail and you didn't need to spend a day, a month or a year apart as you would if you took the K-1 visa route.

Often the question is never asked.

The only times I have seen people post who have had 'problems', they were in fact asking for it, I have seen a couple of posts here where it seemed very suspicous, entered on a non immigrant basis, married within a week and filed within a month. Even with these it 'seems' not all have had problems.

The key to your success hinges on the unofficial 30-60-90 day rule. Marriage within 30 days presumes immigrant intent upon entering. Between 30 to 60 days it can go either way. After 60 days it is presumed their was no immigrant intent.

You won't find this published on the USCIS website but you'll definitely get this advise from many immigration lawyers if you decide to attend one of their consultation sessions.

This is actually an urban myth, there was a very long post on another board about this to which several well respected immigration lawyers contributed.

[brtlmj 0]

The key to your success hinges on the unofficial 30-60-90 day rule. Marriage within 30 days presumes immigrant intent upon entering. Between 30 to 60 days it can go either way. After 60 days it is presumed their was no immigrant intent.

You won't find this published on the USCIS website but you'll definitely get this advise from many immigration lawyers if you decide to attend one of their consultation sessions.

This is actually an urban myth, there was a very long post on another board about this to which several well respected immigration lawyers contributed.

Are you sure ? I'd swear I've seen the rule in FAMs...

Bartek

[brtlmj 0]

OK, I found it: 9 FAM 40.63 N4.7, available at: http://foia.state.gov/masterdocs/09fam/0940063N.pdf

Bartek

[rushter 0]

I hope that eventually, this method (via tourist/vwp/student/job visa) of gaining permanent residence (via an all of a sudden marriage) will probably change, considering the extraordinary number of applicants for AOS doing it every year.

Additionally based on the cavalier advice given on forums such as this to just 'do it' and admit no intent of wrong doing, (because everybody else does it), it would seem that the process to squash this style of AOS would gain some momentum soon in the usg... But if nobody complains about it, then what's congress to do.

To those of us that have gone (or are going) the legal route, specifically stating immigrant intentions up front: this is an insane topic and spits in all of our faces.

It is really #### to promote, condone, or aid this sort of behaviour. You people that constantly advise others to do it cause you did, or your friends/others did... you are contributing to the sad state of immigration affairs in this country and (I can't really post what I think - I'd get banned for it).

The specifics of this particular case STINK.

They should do it the right way just like the rest of us did (thru visa hell) and apply for a K1 or K3. AOS on a tourist visa? NO WAY. I'm sick of freeloaders that are too lazy to do their homework and come here looking for mommy to tell'em it's ok, just do it anyway. Total BS.

Damn Right, this is a prejudicial issue and I have ISSUES towards those that lie, cheat, steal and BS their way into AOS via marriage from non-qualifying visas or entry methods.

Somebody show me where I'm wrong.