Moving back to Europe with my conditional Green Card

[bond 2]

Hi everyone,

I got married last year to a U.S. citizen. I came here with a K1 visa and received a conditional green card. I will have to renew my green card next year.

I got a job offer to move back to Europe with my wife and work in there (it is unclear how long, most likely for a longer period of time 3+ years). I don't own any property and my company will pay me in the local currency (I am from there and they can affoid double taxation)

Some short questions:

1) How does effect my conditional green card status? Can I apply for returning resident (SB-1) visa? For how long is it valid? What requirements do I have to fullfill? Any infos on that visa?

2) Can I renew my conditional green card while living in Europe?

3) How many times per year do I have to enter the U.S. in order to keep my green card status? Once per year? For how long do I have to stay in the U.S. when I visit?

4) Can I apply for naturalization/citizenship while in Europe?

5) I almost feel that this is just to much potential trouble and I should wait a little bit before I go back to Europe for job opportunities. In 6 months I can apply for my 10 years green card and 1 year later for citizenship. I feel (after reading different posts) that going back for a longer amount of time can really risk of loosing my green card even though I am employed by a US company and married to a US citizen. Comments?

Thanks,

Tom

[gnasa 3]

First let me describe my situation, I'm a US citizen, my wife in Australian, she received her conditional GC and my work promptly transferred me to Europe for a 2-3 year assignment. Of coarse I could have refused but a chance for a non-EU to live/work in EU was too exciting for us to pass-up, we've been in EU for 1.3 yrs now. I have many of the same questions you have, but maybe I can clarify some things for you.

1) How does effect my conditional green card status? Can I apply for returning resident (SB-1) visa? For how long is it valid? What requirements do I have to fullfill? Any infos on that visa?

One of the requirements of a green card (2-year or 10-year) is to maintain the intent to reside within the US. We effectively do this by getting a re-entry permit(s). My understanding of SB-1 visas are they are hard to get b/c you have to demonstrate you couldn't return to US due to something out of your control.

2) Can I renew my conditional green card while living in Europe?

I do not have many details about this, however, 'removing conditions from abroad' is something you should research. We have to do this next year and I'll be sure to post my experience with it here, as it may be helpful to others.

3) How many times per year do I have to enter the U.S. in order to keep my green card status? Once per year? For how long do I have to stay in the U.S. when I visit?

This is a big grey area and I feel is open to interpretation. 1st you need to get a re-entry permit as the best evidence to maintain your intent to reside in the US. Or you could actually stay in the the US for >6 months each year. A history of long extended trips indicating that you actually live somewhere else and just visit the US is a red flag.

4) Can I apply for naturalization/citizenship while in Europe?

Not if you break the continuous residency for naturalization purposes by staying outside of US for >6 months during your 3 yrs as an LPR (there are loopholes to this by being employed abroad by a US company or the US gov. or a missionary etc. and naturalizing expeditiously via 319(b)). Your time inside/outside the US will be scrutinized during the naturalization process down to day (I've heard).

5) I almost feel that this is just to much potential trouble and I should wait a little bit before I go back to Europe for job opportunities. In 6 months I can apply for my 10 years green card and 1 year later for citizenship. I feel (after reading different posts) that going back for a longer amount of time can really risk of loosing my green card even though I am employed by a US company and married to a US citizen. Comments?

I think you are wise to understand the possible implications of living abroad on your GC status. If this is an option and you are not forced to move for your work, 1.5 years longer in the US isn't too bad and you'll never have to deal with USCIS again (but you always have to pay US taxes). Even if your job sucks and you have to live in (insert non-desirable town, eg. Houston), 1.5 years of your life isn't that much of a price to pay for US citizenship, AND the grass isn't always greener in Europe. On the other hand, you could attempt to maintain the GC like my wife is doing and if you do end up losing it, you can always get another one (via DCF or the longer way) through your continuing marriage to a US citizen.

I just re-read your original post, to clarify- your US company is offering a transfer to Europe. I strongly encourage you to read into 319(b) expeditious naturalization. If your company is deemed to be US by USCIS standards than I think you can move abroad and become a US citizen in a very short time (<1 yr) The definition of a US company by USCIS can be somewhat complex though, is your company's stock solely traded on a US stock exchange? If so, you've got a good chance that 319(b) applies.

[Penguin_ie 5,986]

1. If you live outside the USA for 3+ years, you will loose your greencard. You cannot apply for a returning residents visa because that is for those who are outside the country and unexpectedly have to stay longer than they planned.

2. No.

3. You have to reside in the USA, and to be save, spend more time inside the USA than outside.

4. No.

5. I think you have two options: decline this opportunity, wait for citizenship, then you can travel and stay outside the US as much as you want. Or go now, abandon your greencard (hand it back to the local US embassy), then have your wife petition you again when you are ready to move back to the USA.

[bond 2]

Thanks for your answers.

My company isn’t public it is a private company with an ESAP program (employees who work for the company can get stocks.) Two answers, two different opinions. Any other opinions to my original questions.

Two more things:

1)Is there a difference in paying taxes while living and working in the U.S. between having a Green Card and having Citizenship. I thought that in both cases I will have to pay taxes?

2)Is there a difference in paying taxes while living and working in the Europe while working for a U.S. company between having a Green Card and having Citizenship. I thought that in the case of a green card I do not necessary have to pay taxes if they send me back to Europe as a local and pay me in local currency. Is this correct? How about when I have U.S. citizenship? Do I have to pay U.S. taxes and taxes in Europe? What about agreements between two countries which protect you from paying double taxes?

Thanks,

Tom

[sib 7]

If you leave the US to reside outside of US, you are giving up your intent to live in the US which your greencard is for. Most likely you will loose your greencard.

If you move to Europe to work there, I think this is not considered living in US. Even the reentry permit does not guarantee keeping your greencard.

Regarding the taxes: US has double tax treaties with most if not all European countries. In those it is regulated which country will tax what income and what the other country will do. If you are US resident (which you are with your green card!) or US citizen you are obliged to file US income taxes each year. If you are working in Europe I guess the income will be taxed in the country you are working, mostly you also have to pay social security, etc.. If you file your income taxes in US, depending on the amount of income, you can exclude foreign earned income or you include the foreign earned income and get a tax credit (which will reduce your US taxes) up to the maximum amount of taxes paid in the foreign country. It might also be depending on the double tax treaty that US is not allowed to tax the foreign earned income. You need to get advise from a tax consultant you deals with both countries. I only know the US-German double tax treaty and there you have with most of the incomes that they are taxed in both countries, but US will give a tax credit (the calculation of the credit is a little complicated but worth the effort) up to the amount of taxes paid in Germany.

Being you, I would wait until US citizenship to leave the country for an extended period of time.

As another poster suggested, depending on the company you might be able to get expedited citizenship. There was a thread not to long ago about this.

Wishing you luck.

Sib

[bond 2]

Thanks for the information. I will try to get more information about the expedited citizenship.

Most likely I will stay in the U.S.

It was a long process to get the green card and I don't feel to go over it again. My company tells me not too worry, because I am married to a U.S. citizen and I should just go. However, they didn't tell me anything about the complications that can occur when I stay in Europe for a couple of years.

Thanks for all the answers!

[Boiler 43,692]

Worst case is that you just do it all again.

There is a special allowance if your US Employer moves you job wise.

[bond 2]

what kind of allowance is this?

319(b) expeditious naturalization: my company is private (we have an ESAP program - employees own company stocks) and not on the stock market. Can I still apply for that kind of naturalization from Europe? I was reading 319(b) and my understanding was that the U.S. company has to be somehow connected to the U.S. government as for instance the military. Please advice where I can find more information about this topic.

[gnasa 3]

what kind of allowance is this?

319(b) expeditious naturalization: my company is private (we have an ESAP program - employees own company stocks) and not on the stock market. Can I still apply for that kind of naturalization from Europe? I was reading 319(b) and my understanding was that the U.S. company has to be somehow connected to the U.S. government as for instance the military. Please advice where I can find more information about this topic.

I'm not sure if the US company has to connected to the US gov. for 319(b) to apply, it states the firm must "engaged in the development of foreign trade and commerce of the U.S.". There is some useful info in this thread that I started last year: www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/261371-expeditious-naturalization-319b-american-company-definition/ and it has some links to my sources of info.

There are several ways to show a corporation is a 'US company', stock only traded on US markets is one of them. My 1st guess would be that your company would qualify IF it is incorporated in the US and most of your colleagues/shareholders are US citizens. You would need to figure out how to prove all of this sufficiently.

when searching for info on 319(b), google is your friend as is this and other forums, the USCIS does a very poor job of clarifying it. You can also turn to the 'adjudicator's manual' if you understand lawyer-speak . Ultimately you may benefit from discussing all this with an immigration lawyer, just be sure to find one that is familiar with 319(b) as most aren't in my experience. Also the laws are 'national' so you can use any lawyer in the US.

I do agree with you that loosing and then having to get another green card is your worst option, either stay in US until you obtain citizenship or determine if 319(b) will apply if your transferred abroad for your work.

glad I can be of some help

[gnasa 3]

Another option that may be available to you is preserving residency for naturalization purposes.

[JeffandTania 0]

Hello VJ's members!

Would you help me to find out for myself such kind of situation? My wife (due to family circumstances) is out of US and by the time she will be back to US it will be 10 months. Will the Immigration officers at POE have any records about her period of absence? Does anybody have experience of the same situation? Does anybody have problems at POE, was questioned by Immigration officer? Thank you.

[Drogs 24]

Yes the Authorities will know exactly when your wife leaves and comes back, suggest you note it down, would not want mistakes on the I-751.

Edited October 25, 2011 by Drogs