What can you do if your K1 Visa is denied in Guangzhou ?

[Gary&Jun 0]

I keep reading the posts about people getting denied K1 visas in Guangzhou and mostly the

the exact reasons for the denial are vague. It seems that in some cases the VO has already

decided the outcome before the person being interviewed answers any questions. It seems

that some of the denials are arbitrary. I do not see how they can deny a visa to the wife

of an USC and state that they do not have a bonafide relationship after what appears

to be an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.

I have been wondering that if the USC is present in Guangzhou at the time of the interview what can be done

by the USC to reverse the decision made by the VO ?

[Ryan H 3,813]

I do not see how they can deny a visa to the wife

of an USC

If the person was interviewing for a K1, they wouldn't be the wife of a USC, they would be the fiancee of a USC.

We can marry or get engaged to whoever we chose. However, the US Government decides who can enter the US, that's a cold hard fact we all have to accept, regardless of how we feel about it.

Another unfortunate reality is what has happened in the past, citizens of other countries have entered into relationships with insincere intent. Makes it tougher on those who are sincere.

Without knowing the complete background of all the cases behind the posts, it's hard to determine what may have been a factor in a CO's decision. I do agree that most decisions are made before an interview commences which is why front loading is important when going through an Embassy or Consulate that has seen high incidences of fraud.

I have been wondering that if the USC is present in Guangzhou at the time of the interview what can be done

by the USC to reverse the decision made by the VO ?

There may not be much one can do, they would need an appointment to gain entry to the Consulate. They could email the IV unit or try contacting their Senator and hope for a quick intervention, however, IMO, those avenues are long shots to keep the file from being sent back.

[Bob g 11]

Our K1 petition was denied in Dec 2009, and sent back to USCIS, where it expired. I got a notice from USCIS, August 2010,that the petition had expired and no further action is needed.. I made my 2nd trip to China, and we got married, then started the 130.

I read that a couple had started a new K1 very shortly after their first K1 was denied, had another Interview in 6 months and got

their Visa. If you feel your K1 was denied because of lack of evidence, trips, etc., you could start another K1.

Getting a Visa comes down to the "descretion" or personal opinion of the Interview Officer.

[Love Eth 14]

I keep reading the posts about people getting denied K1 visas in Guangzhou and mostly the

the exact reasons for the denial are vague. It seems that in some cases the VO has already

decided the outcome before the person being interviewed answers any questions. It seems

that some of the denials are arbitrary. I do not see how they can deny a visa to the wife

of an USC and state that they do not have a bonafide relationship after what appears

to be an overwhelming amount of evidence to the contrary.

I have been wondering that if the USC is present in Guangzhou at the time of the interview what can be done

by the USC to reverse the decision made by the VO ?

There is no way to panic when the visa is denied at the embassy level. Even if you have to wait for the letter from the USCIS, you have another chance to file again. I know couple of people going through and their visa was approved on their second attempt. It is not a big deal but make sure that to fix the problems of the first and clearly explain about the previous petition on the cover letter. Also you don’t have to forget to include a waiver letter with the petition since it is your second petition in two years.

GOOD LUCK.

[Gary&Jun 0]

My fiance has not had her interview yet and I have always believed in "Hope for the best, but

prepare for the worst". So I was interested if any one had been able to have any recourse in

Guangzhou to have the VO reverse their decision to initially deny the visa. Some people have

related their experiences in that they have been able to supply additional information to

prove that they have a bona fide relationship but in other cases it seems that the people were

not given a chance to prove anything and basically had to go through the process again.

What bothers me the most is that seems that people are powerless to do anything about a

denial. We spend months waiting for the process to come to some fruition and in a matter of

minutes you are back to square one.

We met online in August, 2010 but we have only met once in person and that was back in December

for a month. At the end of the December, I proposed to her and in late January, 2011, I filed the I-129F

which has been approved. I have received a letter from the NVC saying that the case has been sent

to Guangzhou. I have already scheduled a trip for the end of July to spend two weeks with

her. I also intend to come back for her interview. Now, I am worried if this will be enough to prove

that we have a bona fide relationship.

[Darnell 8,478]

options?

--get blue slip, supply what they asked for, pray .

--get denied or 221G with NOIR/NOID? can't keep the casefile there, USC cannot talk with VO anymore, ACH is gone, dead, can't do it anymore

--file new K1 immediately (if within the 2 year rule) and frontload or

--go to China again, get married, file I-130 for CR-1 visa or

--wait for the casefile to wind it's way through to USCIS, where maybe the petition is re-affirmed, or maybe you get chance to provide more evidence for some rebuttal.

IMO, least time path is to file a new K-1. At some point in the process, whilst it's at USCIS awaiting adjudication, withdraw the original K-1.

[VisaReformNow 1]

There has to be a better way to deal with visa denials. There is

such a hypocrisy in the way that Guangzhou deals with people.

It seems that a typical scenario is the following:

1. the K1 is denied because there is not a bona fide relationship which

means that there is immigration fraud

2. the petitioner turns around and re-submits a new K1 or gets married and

goes through the CR1 route then Guangzhou issues a visa

Was magic involved that caused the initial immigration fraud to disappear ?

How can they refuse a K1 visa and cite immigration fraud then approve a new K1 or a CR1

for the same people ?

It seems that basically there is nothing that one can do except to refile. No one in

congress has enough courage and fortitude to reform the process.

I read the class action suit of Tran v. Napolitano which was dismissed this year. I am not sure

if the people that were involved had a strong case but I am not a lawyer and this

is just my opinion. If everyone that has had the misfortune

of being denied by Guangzhou would band together and file a class action suit then

maybe then there could be real change.

[Darnell 8,478]

a few years back, after a denial, the USCitizen petitioner could 'do stuff' at Guangzhou IV during ACH. Sometimes, the denial decision was re-evaluated based on what 'else' was presented after the interview.

ACH is no longer available, is no concept of 'fairness' there on denials, IMO.

To balance this, I'll state GUZ IV handles more fraud cases than other IV units. Some might argue Morocco or Mexico, but I say it's China.

to 'issue a new decision' based on new visa application - well, the current casefile is evaluated, adjudicated, based on the merits of the current casefile. Sure, prior stuff is looked at, but if it's awarded - hey - you tell me the weighting factors that were favorable for 'this time' ?

Edited July 4, 2011 by Darnell

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

There has to be a better way to deal with visa denials. There is

such a hypocrisy in the way that Guangzhou deals with people.

It seems that a typical scenario is the following:

1. the K1 is denied because there is not a bona fide relationship which

means that there is immigration fraud

2. the petitioner turns around and re-submits a new K1 or gets married and

goes through the CR1 route then Guangzhou issues a visa

Was magic involved that caused the initial immigration fraud to disappear ?

How can they refuse a K1 visa and cite immigration fraud then approve a new K1 or a CR1

for the same people ?

It seems that basically there is nothing that one can do except to refile. No one in

congress has enough courage and fortitude to reform the process.

I read the class action suit of Tran v. Napolitano which was dismissed this year. I am not sure

if the people that were involved had a strong case but I am not a lawyer and this

is just my opinion. If everyone that has had the misfortune

of being denied by Guangzhou would band together and file a class action suit then

maybe then there could be real change.

If a visa were denied because of actual fraud then there would be no visa approval after a subsequent petition were filed. At the very least, an I-601 waiver would be required. Visas are usually not denied because of fraud - they are usually denied because the consular officer does not believe that there is a legitimate relationship, and the consular officer has the statutory discretion to make that call. The only way Congress is going to take that discretion away from the CO is if someone invents a machine that can read minds, and the CO's use that machine to weed out the frauds.

The "magic" that happened between the first and second visa application is that the CO has now seen enough evidence to believe that the relationship is probably real.

Think about that for a moment and let it sink in...

If the CO didn't see enough evidence the first time the beneficiary applied to convince them, but saw enough evidence to believe them the second time they applied, doesn't that imply that maybe the CO would have approved the visa the first time if they saw enough convincing evidence?

If you want to increase your chances of approval then you need to take your time, allow your relationship to develop, and collect your evidence before you send the petition. You're not trying to convince your mom that you're in love. You're trying to convince someone who doesn't know you, and who will spend a total of five or ten minutes with your petition package and the forms submitted at the interview before making their preliminary decision. You really want those documents and evidence to make the very best impression.

Anyone who comes to VJ for self-help with the immigration process should not proceed straight to the guides, file their petition, and then spend their waiting time reading the various forums. Read the forums first. Find out what the common reasons are for a visa denial. If you see any of those red flags in your own case then fix them or at least address them before you file the petition. Does the consulate like to deny visas because the petitioner made only one trip? Then postpone filing until you've made a few more trips. Does the consulate like to deny visas because the petitioner and/or beneficiary were recently divorced? Then wait a year or two after the divorce before filing. If you've got a situation that's considered a red flag at a particular consulate that you simply can't fix, like a big age difference, then at least have evidence of a long term relationship to help overcome the suspicion that the relationship is a sham.

To balance this, I'll state GUZ IV handles more fraud cases than other IV units. Some might argue Morocco or Mexico, but I say it's China.

I think the general consensus is that it's Lagos, Nigeria, but I'd bet Guangzhou is in the top five. From what I've heard, Juarez is actually pretty easy compared to some of the more notorious high fraud consulates.

[Darnell 8,478]

ya, the MAGIC, I think, is the evidence pile sent in with initial petition submittal, not the 'pile in hand on interview day'.

Most of the decisions are pre-determined based on what's in the casefile, questions at interview are slanted to what's in (or not in) the casefile.

[Love Eth 14]

ya, the MAGIC, I think, is the evidence pile sent in with initial petition submittal, not the 'pile in hand on interview day'.

Most of the decisions are pre-determined based on what's in the casefile, questions at interview are slanted to what's in (or not in) the casefile.

So, are you saying that the decision could be made even before the interview just only by looking at the initial petition? If that is the case do you recommend the initiial petition to be "Front Load"? Thanks for your reply.

Edited July 4, 2011 by Love Eth

[Darnell 8,478]

Yes.

[Love Eth 14]

Yes.

Wow Good to know that and thanks for your quick respond.

Thanks

[VisaReformNow 1]

If a visa were denied because of actual fraud then there would be no visa approval after a subsequent petition were filed. At the very least, an I-601 waiver would be required. Visas are usually not denied because of fraud - they are usually denied because the consular officer does not believe that there is a legitimate relationship, and the consular officer has the statutory discretion to make that call. The only way Congress is going to take that discretion away from the CO is if someone invents a machine that can read minds, and the CO's use that machine to weed out the frauds.

The "magic" that happened between the first and second visa application is that the CO has now seen enough evidence to believe that the relationship is probably real.

Think about that for a moment and let it sink in...

If the CO didn't see enough evidence the first time the beneficiary applied to convince them, but saw enough evidence to believe them the second time they applied, doesn't that imply that maybe the CO would have approved the visa the first time if they saw enough convincing evidence?

If you want to increase your chances of approval then you need to take your time, allow your relationship to develop, and collect your evidence before you send the petition. You're not trying to convince your mom that you're in love. You're trying to convince someone who doesn't know you, and who will spend a total of five or ten minutes with your petition package and the forms submitted at the interview before making their preliminary decision. You really want those documents and evidence to make the very best impression.

Anyone who comes to VJ for self-help with the immigration process should not proceed straight to the guides, file their petition, and then spend their waiting time reading the various forums. Read the forums first. Find out what the common reasons are for a visa denial. If you see any of those red flags in your own case then fix them or at least address them before you file the petition. Does the consulate like to deny visas because the petitioner made only one trip? Then postpone filing until you've made a few more trips. Does the consulate like to deny visas because the petitioner and/or beneficiary were recently divorced? Then wait a year or two after the divorce before filing. If you've got a situation that's considered a red flag at a particular consulate that you simply can't fix, like a big age difference, then at least have evidence of a long term relationship to help overcome the suspicion that the relationship is a sham.

I think the general consensus is that it's Lagos, Nigeria, but I'd bet Guangzhou is in the top five. From what I've heard, Juarez is actually pretty easy compared to some of the more notorious high fraud consulates.

When the consular officer does not believe that there is a legitimate relationship then they are saying that the people are trying

to circumvent the immigration process by committing fraud. So if there is fraud on the K1 any petitions made subsequently would also

be fraudulent.

Also, the consular officer's role in the petition process is to determine if there is

substantial evidence relevant to petition validity not previously considered by DHS, and not to merely readjudicate the

petition which they are doing. No where is it stated in law that the petitioner must make more than one trip or wait a

a certain period of time after a divorce. The USCIS has already determined that the petitioner and beneficiary are

legally able to marry.

[Ryan H 3,813]

No where is it stated in law that the petitioner must make more than one trip or wait a

a certain period of time after a divorce. The USCIS has already determined that the petitioner and beneficiary are

legally able to marry.

What USCIS has determined is the beneficiary is eligible to apply for a certain type of visa. I would speculate if an adjudicator has doubts about the relationship, they send out that laundry list RFE that I have seen some posts about. However, given the volume of files USCIS deals with, that's not a practical thing to do most of the time. Again, just speculation on my part, others may disagree.

I would also speculate that when a IV unit of a Embassy or Consulate receives a fraud report, they go over the complete background of the file so they can look for certain things and catch them in the future. If they see commonalities in fraud cases, they will use those as a basis to make decisions in the future. Again, just speculation on my part, I'm not privy to the inner workings of Embassies and Consulates. I base my speculation on my own judgement and common sense as well as "what I would do if I was in that position."

Edited July 5, 2011 by Ryan H