When is Form G-325a to be submitted?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

There is no logical reason for your petition to be 300 pages long. None.

It is not an application. It is a petition. All you need to do is prove that you're able to apply for the Visa.

Nobody needs 300 pages to prove that the petitioner is a USC, both parties are legally able and willing to get married, and have met in person in the last 2 years.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Coconuts

[aguilayserpiente 2]

There is no logical reason for your petition to be 300 pages long. None.

It is not an application. It is a petition. All you need to do is prove that you're able to apply for the Visa.

Nobody needs 300 pages to prove that the petitioner is a USC, both parties are legally able and willing to get married, and have met in person in the last 2 years.

My question was about the Form G-325a. The question was based on the dearth of USCIS guidance either at their website or FAM as to when the G-325a is to be submitted.

With regard to the logic of including as much information as possible at the initial stage, this is the reason: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/293777-denied/ . After participating in numerous agonizing asylum cases, turning on demonstrative and documentary evidence, I am sensitive to questions of evidence.

Having the embassy official review the hard evidence before hand to educate him/her is sound as it would be to submit exhibits with a civil complaint or petition for writ of mandamus to educate a judge. I belatedly note the following from this VJ website:

Use as many of these items are possible. There is no minimum, but the more you can provide the less likely you are that you will receive an

RFE

. Additionally, please note that providing proof of your ongoing and genuine relationship in this package may benefit you by allowing the consulate to have access to this information prior to them formally contacting the non US Citizen fiance. Many high risk consulates approach cases with a skeptical eye and providing this information early on in the original I-129F package will help them in their preliminary review of your case.

1. Copies of all airline boarding passes, train passes, itineraries, hotel receipts, passport stamps (make sure you can read the dates on the stamps), and other documentary evidence that you have met within the last two years. You may want to highlight or place post-it notes indicating the dates and locations on the copies (to make the adjudication easier) for the person reviewing your file.

2. Color Photo's of you and your fiance(e) together. Make sure you write your names, date, and location on the back of every photo. Provide two to five photo's. If you only have a single copy of the photo, then make a color copy and send that. If it is a digital photo, have it printed at a company such as kodakgallery.com. You can also make duplicates of photo's at your local photo store (Walgreeens, CVS, etc). Place photo's in a plastic bag or photo sheet and label the sheet. Note that you may not receive originals of photo's back.

3. The following items will not typically show proof of having met in the last two years however will show proof of an ongoing relationship: Copies of phone bills, cell phone bills, emails (you can edit personal info with a marker), letters (edit personal info also), stamps on the letters (to document the date they were sent), and other written documentary proof. Provide a reasonable amount; two to four of each type. Pick a range of dates up to and including the present. You can also include a copy of engagement ring receipt (this is something that is a big optional - do not worry if you do not have a ring yet!)

http://www.visajourney.com/content/k1guide

Nos. 1-3 above add up to about 300 pages along with an index and declaration explaining each and every tabbed exhibit, A through T.

Thanks to Tim/Mav I have some guidance as to how to tie up one loose thread by supplementing my petition with form G-325a.

Edited May 15, 2011 by aguilayserpiente

[Penny Lane 8,159]

My question was about the Form G-325a. The question was based on the dearth of USCIS guidance either at their website or FAM as to when the G-325a is to be submitted.

With regard to the logic of including as much information as possible at the initial stage, this is the reason: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/293777-denied/ . After participating in numerous agonizing asylum cases, turning on demonstrative and documentary evidence, I am sensitive to questions of evidence.

Having the embassy official review the hard evidence before hand to educate him/her is sound as it would be to submit exhibits with a civil complaint or petition for writ of mandamus to educate a judge. I belatedly note the following from this VJ website:

Use as many of these items are possible. There is no minimum, but the more you can provide the less likely you are that you will receive an

RFE

. Additionally, please note that providing proof of your ongoing and genuine relationship in this package may benefit you by allowing the consulate to have access to this information prior to them formally contacting the non US Citizen fiance. Many high risk consulates approach cases with a skeptical eye and providing this information early on in the original I-129F package will help them in their preliminary review of your case.

1. Copies of all airline boarding passes, train passes, itineraries, hotel receipts, passport stamps (make sure you can read the dates on the stamps), and other documentary evidence that you have met within the last two years. You may want to highlight or place post-it notes indicating the dates and locations on the copies (to make the adjudication easier) for the person reviewing your file.

2. Color Photo's of you and your fiance(e) together. Make sure you write your names, date, and location on the back of every photo. Provide two to five photo's. If you only have a single copy of the photo, then make a color copy and send that. If it is a digital photo, have it printed at a company such as kodakgallery.com. You can also make duplicates of photo's at your local photo store (Walgreeens, CVS, etc). Place photo's in a plastic bag or photo sheet and label the sheet. Note that you may not receive originals of photo's back.

3. The following items will not typically show proof of having met in the last two years however will show proof of an ongoing relationship: Copies of phone bills, cell phone bills, emails (you can edit personal info with a marker), letters (edit personal info also), stamps on the letters (to document the date they were sent), and other written documentary proof. Provide a reasonable amount; two to four of each type. Pick a range of dates up to and including the present. You can also include a copy of engagement ring receipt (this is something that is a big optional - do not worry if you do not have a ring yet!)

http://www.visajourney.com/content/k1guide

Nos. 1-3 above add up to about 300 pages along with an index and declaration explaining each and every tabbed exhibit, A through T.

Thanks to Tim/Mav I have some guidance as to how to tie up one loose thread by supplementing my petition with form G-325a.

That thread you quoted was about being denied for lack of evidence at the interview. Not about USCIS denying the petition. USCIS does not need proof of an ongoing relationship, which is the evidence you named.

[Tim/Mav 305]

Oh. STOP THIS NONSENSE.. The OP's Original Thread States; I think I made a Mistake ! (After already Mailing the Application 3 days Ago.) Yes, it was a serious mistake but this is where we attempt to help the Member and NOT Lecture them.

I certainly agree 300 pages is not required and will not be read anyways by USCIS. A few will do (Communication.) I do admit that this member left out IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS "REQUIRED". Hard Lesson there !

USCIS "Cannot" Complete a Investigation of the Petitioner/Beneficiary without these documents. Thats why we wait 4 to 7 months in some cases.

I read VJ Forums alot and what Members Posted before I even met my Fiancee and after looking at good advice and bad advice hired an Attourney since there is such a separation of Good Advive, Bad Advice and Members Playing God on this Forum.

Seems for SOME MEMBERS ONLY, the futhur you get Approved for this and for that you forgot it is a HELP FORUM.

Personally, Me and Mav are still awaiting NOA2. (5 Months on this Tuesday.) But that does'nt stop me from trying to imput their situation when I think I might be able to help SOME.

Advice is good but not to Play God or act like an Attouney.

Looking at VJ. Thats why I hired an Attourney. When you post something: You never know if a HATER will reply. I don't think I would risk that.

I'm sure hate replies will come to me but, $1,500.00 for the Attourney for the rest of my life is better than watching the fighting here sometimes.

Just my thought. When I reply to a Member Post, I try and help. Not give them S.......

[aguilayserpiente 2]

That thread you quoted was about being denied for lack of evidence at the interview. Not about USCIS denying the petition. USCIS does not need proof of an ongoing relationship, which is the evidence you named.

What?

Edited May 16, 2011 by aguilayserpiente

[KayDeeCee 4,891]

You said you could not find anything that stated when to send in the G-325a. I just wanted to let you know it is in the I-129F instructions: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-129finstr.pdf

6. What Other Documents Do You Need?

A. Submit a completed and signed Form G-325A(Biographic Information) for you and a completed and signed Form G-325A for your fiancé(e). Except for name and signature, you do not have to repeat on the Biographic Information form the information given on your Form I-129F.

[aguilayserpiente 2]

I am going to do what Tim/Mav recommended submit a supplement upon receipt of the NOA. A few moments ago, I located the following directive guidance letter at the USCIS website:

http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2005/i129f_g325a_110105.pdf

It appears that in any event the failure to submit a G-325a is not fatal and can be submitted later. Like Tim/Mav I would prefer sooner rather than later.

Thanks to Tim/Mav and everyone else who responded to help.

[Casprd 167]

That seems like a reasonable and practical procedure. Thank you.

I would attach new passport style photos to the G325's also. Don't expect the photos you already sent to get matched up (assuming they were passport style). As posted before, it is a long shot. You may want to call USCIS before you do anything and explain to a supervisor what is going on so they at least know to expect these.

[faust-yusov 103]

I am going to do what Tim/Mav recommended submit a supplement upon receipt of the NOA. A few moments ago, I located the following directive guidance letter at the USCIS website:

http://www.uscis.gov/USCIS/Laws/Memoranda/Static_Files_Memoranda/Archives%201998-2008/2005/i129f_g325a_110105.pdf

It appears that in any event the failure to submit a G-325a is not fatal and can be submitted later. Like Tim/Mav I would prefer sooner rather than later.

I would just wait for the RFE.

There's no danger of your petition "gathering cobwebs" because you've forgotten something. Either they look at it or they don't. If they look at it, they send you an RFE, tell you exactly what to do, you do it, and they approve you about a week later.

There's no evidence or history of USCIS "putting petitions aside" because they're incomplete. Once a petition is picked up to be adjudicated, that adjudication ends with either an RFE or an approval.

RFEs are really not a big deal. Once you get an RFE you are on their radar. That's a lovely thing. There's no real "wait" period once you submit your further evidence - as soon as they get it, they check it and approve you.

PS. Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but for reference, details regarding the G-325A and passport photos are mentioned in the I-129F instructions document [item 6, p. 3].

Edited May 16, 2011 by faust-yusov

[Penny Lane 8,159]

What?

I'm not sure how my comment was confusing. You linked me to a thread about someone being denied at an interview, not about USCIS denying a petition due to lack of evidence.

Oh. STOP THIS NONSENSE.. The OP's Original Thread States; I think I made a Mistake ! (After already Mailing the Application 3 days Ago.) Yes, it was a serious mistake but this is where we attempt to help the Member and NOT Lecture them.

I certainly agree 300 pages is not required and will not be read anyways by USCIS. A few will do (Communication.) I do admit that this member left out IMPORTANT DOCUMENTS "REQUIRED". Hard Lesson there !

USCIS "Cannot" Complete a Investigation of the Petitioner/Beneficiary without these documents. Thats why we wait 4 to 7 months in some cases.

I read VJ Forums alot and what Members Posted before I even met my Fiancee and after looking at good advice and bad advice hired an Attourney since there is such a separation of Good Advive, Bad Advice and Members Playing God on this Forum.

Seems for SOME MEMBERS ONLY, the futhur you get Approved for this and for that you forgot it is a HELP FORUM.

Personally, Me and Mav are still awaiting NOA2. (5 Months on this Tuesday.) But that does'nt stop me from trying to imput their situation when I think I might be able to help SOME.

Advice is good but not to Play God or act like an Attouney.

Looking at VJ. Thats why I hired an Attourney. When you post something: You never know if a HATER will reply. I don't think I would risk that.

I'm sure hate replies will come to me but, $1,500.00 for the Attourney for the rest of my life is better than watching the fighting here sometimes.

Just my thought. When I reply to a Member Post, I try and help. Not give them S.......

The OP has received no bad advice, so I'm not sure what you're upset about. People (like myself) commenting on a 300 page petition? The OP made a point to tell us, so expect people to comment on it. I am simply saying all that evidence is good for the interview, not the initial petition.

Edited May 16, 2011 by Coconuts

[faust-yusov 103]

The OP has received no bad advice, so I'm not sure what you're upset about. People (like myself) commenting on a 300 page petition? The OP made a point to tell us, so expect people to comment on it. I am simply saying all that evidence is good for the interview, not the initial petition.

Agreed. I didn't think what you said sounded hostile or condescending at all.

It was a worthwhile comment which should hopefully dissuade others from such unnecessary effort.

[aguilayserpiente 2]

I'm not sure how my comment was confusing. You linked me to a thread about someone being denied at an interview, not about USCIS denying a petition due to lack of evidence.

The OP has received no bad advice, so I'm not sure what you're upset about. People (like myself) commenting on a 300 page petition? The OP made a point to tell us, so expect people to comment on it. I am simply saying all that evidence is good for the interview, not the initial petition.

Taking a closer look, all of that commentary about how you feel about the supplementing documents when the question asked about G-325a was irrelevant and not helpful. The original question was about when the G-325 is to be submitted and what to do if it is missing, period.

But, coconuts, if you are truly interested in knowing why a person would include evidence with any legal document like a civil complaint, petition for writ of mandamus, or I-129F petition, it is to preemptively educate the trier of fact. As stated previously, this VJ website advises getting the hard documents into the embassy officials hands in advance of being scheduled; that is done by including it with the I-129F. Hence, the VJ website and others advise adding the supporting documents now.

For those folks who mentioned that the notes in the instructions to I-129F mention the G-325a, that is correct. While Form I-129F makes reference to G-325a, the USCIS general instructions do not, nor does the controlling law, 8 CFR § 214.2(k) and 22 CFR section 41.81.

I am glad for Tim/Mav and Faust Yusov taking the time to offer thoughtful guidance.