My Vietnamese girlfriend and me need help

[ttp 0]

Regarding the power of attorney - I too gave my then-fiancee power of attorney. The So Thu Phap would not accept it - I HAD to be there. I understand that she should be able to do the paperwork without you, but things have a habit of not working out like they should in VN. I was hoping my marriage paperwork would be all completed before our marriage ceremony at her house, but alas it was not. I nearly had to extend my 6-week trip because the So Thu Phap finished everything 3 days before my departure date.

I apologize for the "getting mad" comments; I understand and agree with some of your points, but that's just how I read it initially. The whole "Doom and Gloom" thing is an unfortunate reality. Ideally, just marrying an American citizen should be enough, but there have been decades of marriage and immigration fraud from HCMC. It's not going to be a cakewalk, and unfortunately everything may hang in the balance, and approval/denial may be up to one single individual (the interview officer). It's not as bleak as it may sound, but it's better to understand the difficulties than to be blindsided by them later on.

You have to realize that things are different in Vietnam. Even the Consulate, which should follow American rules and regulations, works at its own pace and answers to nobody. My wife's visa was printed on 7/7/10, but she didn't receive it until 7/20. She was already accepted, but just pushed back for two weeks for no reason other than that the Consulate didn't have time to rummage through their files to fish it out and hand it to her.

[BinhJerome 14]

By the way, before I asked if it is possible for my girl to get the marriage certificate without me being present. The answer is YES, however I need to provide my girl with a "power of attorney" form. The form is only usable if the spouse (me) does not live in VN.

I do not know where you got your information on power of attorney, but it is false, You MUST sign to pick it up because your signature goes into their registration book. I know this simply because I just had a friend that had to go back to the United States last week who just had his marriage interview, while there he already knew he had to go back sooner than planned, so he talked/begged/pleaded/and even eventually tried to bribe them because he knew he would not be able to come back for another 6 months yet they said "NO" I could not swear to him asking for a power of attorney, but if you cant bribe someone in VN then it is just not possible. It sounds like someone has been giving you bad advice or you are doing like I used to do and do internet searches and see a website that said .VN and thought it was current only to read at the bottom that it was last modified in 2002. Dont worry about it, dont rush it, there are services that can speed things up, take it from Linda, get your certifications done stateside, and all the US consulate paperwork done before you arrive, this means all you have to do is get the mental test, and you can pay extra to get the paperwork the same day within a few hours, then go turn it all in, this is what took the longest for us, I had to go to the US embassy, and then I had to wait for translations to be done usually 3 days, other than that it was waiting for the interview, and waiting to go in and sign the document. Besides if you own your own business, and this is really that important to hurry and get married, buy a plane ticket that allows you to change your return flight and stay as long as it takes, after all you are the boss.

[Mr. 2000 0]

There is no "right" to any immigration benefit for either you or her. It is a privilege that must be earned.

As for making it difficult to immigrate, there are numerous reasons not the least of which is to protect US Citizens (including you).

If I marry a person, regardless of their nationality, then the US government should HAVE to allow us to live together. Fraud is going to happen no matter what and just like gun control, these ridiculous hoops do nothing to solve the problem since the people who have illegal intent will find a way and the people who marry legitimately are the only ones who really suffer for it. Did it occur to anyone that all the fraud is a result of unreasonable difficulty entering the USA, or not being able to return after you leave? If people could enter and leave with little restriction, and could do so LEGALLY, then why would anyone bother committing fraud? As for the girls who take advantage of men to escape VN or for money...well...that's really most women. Plenty of American women do the same thing, but you can get married in Vegas within a few mins. What happens between the man and the woman, whether the marriage is a sham or not, is really none of the government's business nor should they be meddling in peoples' personal affairs like that. If two consenting adults decided to get married for WHATEVER reason, as long as there is some document that shows they are legally married that should be the extent of it, along with reasonable criminal background checks and medical tests.

The way the process is now, it's flawed and highly unconstitutional. Since it is conducted by the US, and I am a US Citizen, there are solid grounds for taking action against these screwed up policies. It's just a matter of enough people being motivated to take a concerted effort.

BTW, is she a "Girl" or a "Woman"? You say to have this special connection but talk about her like an objectified child. My wife was never anything less than I am in words or deeds and I never referred to her as anything less than my Asawa, partner and soul-mate.

Perhaps I should further "objectify" my girl by advertising her in my sig as if she is a prize I won at the state fair...

Oh wait...I see you beat me to it.

I do not know where you got your information on power of attorney, but it is false, You MUST sign to pick it up because your signature goes into their registration book. I know this simply because I just had a friend that had to go back to the United States last week who just had his marriage interview, while there he already knew he had to go back sooner than planned, so he talked/begged/pleaded/and even eventually tried to bribe them because he knew he would not be able to come back for another 6 months yet they said "NO" I could not swear to him asking for a power of attorney, but if you cant bribe someone in VN then it is just not possible. It sounds like someone has been giving you bad advice or you are doing like I used to do and do internet searches and see a website that said .VN and thought it was current only to read at the bottom that it was last modified in 2002. Dont worry about it, dont rush it, there are services that can speed things up, take it from Linda, get your certifications done stateside, and all the US consulate paperwork done before you arrive, this means all you have to do is get the mental test, and you can pay extra to get the paperwork the same day within a few hours, then go turn it all in, this is what took the longest for us, I had to go to the US embassy, and then I had to wait for translations to be done usually 3 days, other than that it was waiting for the interview, and waiting to go in and sign the document. Besides if you own your own business, and this is really that important to hurry and get married, buy a plane ticket that allows you to change your return flight and stay as long as it takes, after all you are the boss.

I got that info from the VN Embassy website:

http://www.vietnamembassy.us/consular_services/marry_a_vietnamese/

Scroll down to III...but now looking at it closer I may have misunderstood its purpose. Maybe it is supposed to be filled out by my girl to give me power of attorney for her? I dunno...it's not worded very clearly.

I'm also confused as to how they want me to certify the documents listed on that page beyond getting them notarized...3) Certificate of No-marriage Records - I don't even know what would be appropriate. I do have my original divorce decree but that is all...and the decree is requested in addition to those 6.

[ttp 0]

I went downtown to the Clerk of Court, or something along those lines. They will run a check and print out all records of your marriages within the last 10 or so years. That is the Certificate of No-marriage. Make sure you have all your divorce paperwork as well, to prove you're no longer married. All that paperwork you download from the consulate website must be done in the US. I personally did all this last May, and I can probably hunt down the information if you need help.

Also, "further certification" means that you first need to get the papers notarized, then you need to bring them to your Secretary of State, who will certify that each notary is legitimate. Apparently the VN consulate can only certify people of the rank of Secretary of State.

Again, the power of attorney means nothing. The mental status exam they make you do in the US means nothing - it will not be accepted and they will require that you get examined at a hospital of their choosing.

Out of curiosity, where was your first wife from? It seems like this is your first time dealing with Vietnam, so I'm just curious to know how much easier it was for another country.

[Anh map 2,098]

Yeah, we have a lot of emails, chat logs, paper letters, gifts and phone records to support the relationship actually existing.

Well I am a homeowner and my business account is also in my name as well, so to satisfy the concerns of either of us becoming a "public charge", I think that should be sufficient. I own my business and its income is essentially my income.

A few questions: Does my presence in VN during her interview have any affect on the outcome, or is it more like a moral support thing for her? Considering our particulars, what can she expect to be asked during the interview?

Do prepare a timeline as they seem to be requested of practically every couple. The timeline, supported by the communication between you will be good evidence.

My business account is my money as well. If you are operating as a sole proprietorship that may be sufficient. If it's an LLC or corporation then the account is an assset of the business and it could be reasonably assumed that those funds would not be readily available for support. Again, it's the judgement of the CO that matters.

If you can demonstrate enough asset equity without the business account I think it would make a stronger case. Using the home equity would require a recent appraisal to set the equity value. You'd hate to get an RFE (request for evidence) for additional assets if the CO were to disallow the biz account. Better to go in overprepared than under. There is a VJ member that married a gal from the Phillipines that had to address similar issues as a self-employed person. I'll see if we can get his input here as well.

Being there at the time of interview will certainly be great moral support. And if you have only made one trip prior it could only be a plus. Some USC's have had their SO bring their US passport inside to show the CO that they were there at the Consulate.

Questions can be simple or fairly detailed. Some things they will likely ask; is she's aware of your previous marriage. Where your ex currently lives. How long were married before. Where you live. Does she have any family in the US. What you do for work. What you do for hobbies. Anything that people in a "legit" relationship would likely know about each other. The CO wants to get a sense of how well you know each other.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

If I marry a person, regardless of their nationality, then the US government should HAVE to allow us to live together. Fraud is going to happen no matter what and just like gun control, these ridiculous hoops do nothing to solve the problem since the people who have illegal intent will find a way and the people who marry legitimately are the only ones who really suffer for it. Did it occur to anyone that all the fraud is a result of unreasonable difficulty entering the USA, or not being able to return after you leave? If people could enter and leave with little restriction, and could do so LEGALLY, then why would anyone bother committing fraud? As for the girls who take advantage of men to escape VN or for money...well...that's really most women. Plenty of American women do the same thing, but you can get married in Vegas within a few mins. What happens between the man and the woman, whether the marriage is a sham or not, is really none of the government's business nor should they be meddling in peoples' personal affairs like that. If two consenting adults decided to get married for WHATEVER reason, as long as there is some document that shows they are legally married that should be the extent of it, along with reasonable criminal background checks and medical tests.

The way the process is now, it's flawed and highly unconstitutional. Since it is conducted by the US, and I am a US Citizen, there are solid grounds for taking action against these screwed up policies. It's just a matter of enough people being motivated to take a concerted effort.

Just saying the fraud will happen either way doesn't prove that we should remove immigration controls. Why should it be difficult to immigrate to the US? How about to preserve our way of life? If anyone could come here by filing a paper and paying a small fee then what would happen to the US Job Market?

By your lowered standards someone could open a "Green card marriage" business legally.

Bottom line is you aren't applying for anything at the Embassy and won't even be allowed to attend the interview.

Where in the constitution do you have any of these "rights" of immigration?

Perhaps I should further "objectify" my girl by advertising her in my sig as if she is a prize I won at the state fair...

Oh wait...I see you beat me to it.

Being proud of my WIFE and linking to her profile is nothing like you referring to "your girl" like she's a blow-up doll who doesn't even deserve a name or respect.

Good luck with your petition since you seem to know everything about the process and how to get it done with the least possible amount of evidence & resources. Ironically it seems that "Know it all even though I've never done it before"s like you seem to be the ones who come back crying about how horrible the interview went.

[Teacher Mark 53]

Just saying the fraud will happen either way doesn't prove that we should remove immigration controls. Why should it be difficult to immigrate to the US? How about to preserve our way of life? If anyone could come here by filing a paper and paying a small fee then what would happen to the US Job Market?

By your lowered standards someone could open a "Green card marriage" business legally.

Bottom line is you aren't applying for anything at the Embassy and won't even be allowed to attend the interview.

Where in the constitution do you have any of these "rights" of immigration?

Being proud of my WIFE and linking to her profile is nothing like you referring to "your girl" like she's a blow-up doll who doesn't even deserve a name or respect.

Good luck with your petition since you seem to know everything about the process and how to get it done with the least possible amount of evidence & resources. Ironically it seems that "Know it all even though I've never done it before"s like you seem to be the ones who come back crying about how horrible the interview went.

9 whole months to get an approval Bob? That must have been rough.

[Kevin and 10]

with a marriage visa the embassy cannot really decline it.

That's some really bad info. No one thing will make or break a case. The CO looks at the whole picture. Red flags can be overcome with preparation. I made about 6 trips to VN in 4 years, my family attended our wedding, had tons of communication evidence, yet our cases (CR1/IR1 from 2006 and K3 from 2007) were sent back.

Everyone has a different experience going through HCMC, so recommendations will be different. Take the advice from members or don't. It's up to you.

Good luck!

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

Mr. 2000, what you say about family based immigration - that it should be simple and straightforward, only involving some background checks, etc., is true for most types of family based visas. If you were sponsoring your mother or your children or your brothers or sisters, then pretty much all you'd have to do is prove the family relationship, provide the necessary documents, pay the fees, and wait for the process to finish. Those types of family based visas are rarely denied. Other than someone trying to pass themselves off as an immediate relative when they are actually not related, there is little opportunity for fraud.

Visas based on MARRIAGE are a completely different story. You have NO RIGHT to bring anyone you want to the United States and grant them immigrant status. Immigration is not a RIGHT - it is a PRIVILEGE. However, because you are a US citizen, the US government provides you a substantial advantage over permanent residents and non-immigrants when it comes to sponsoring your family to immigrate. There are no annual quotas for visas for immediate family members of a US citizen. While the wife of an LPR might have to wait years for a visa to become available for them, the wife of a US citizen is immediately eligible.

Millions of foreigners around the world dream of coming to the US. Many of them have no hope of ever getting a visa. Some have family members in the US who can sponsor them, but they often have to wait a decade or more for a visa to become available for them. There is a HUGE advantage to marrying a US citizen. For some, it makes the impossible possible. For others, it eliminates many years of waiting. There is an enormous incentive to defraud the system in order to gain those benefits. The American people expect the government to do what the law requires, and protect the US from these fraudsters.

You have a warped view of why immigration fraud exists. It does not exist simply because it's difficult to get permission to enter the US. It exists because the US has a higher standard of living, an elected government, more freedom, and less corruption than many other countries. If the US were on an economic and political par with Vietnam, and it were equally difficult to get a visa to come here, there would be very little fraud because there would be very little incentive to come here. Opening the flood gates and letting anyone come in would certainly eliminate the fraud. At the same time, it would destroy the economy of the US. The US economy is already bottom heavy with unskilled service sector employees, much of it due to the number of illegal immigrants already in the US. What you propose would make it infinitely worse. It would also greatly expand on the black market that already exists for US citizens to marry foreigners in order to grant them legal immigrant status.

If you continue viewing US immigration law and the reality of circumstances in Southeast Asia from the perspective of what you THINK they should be, then you will fail miserably. You will not have an opportunity to climb onto your soap box at the US consulate in Ho Chi Minh City and make your speech about your perceived rights as a US citizen.

If you had any experience in the US military, then you would know that you can either buck the system and lose, or you can learn how to use the system to get what you want. I accepted what I would be dealing with long ago, and planned accordingly. My wife and her kids are now with me in the US (in the state you HATE), and living happily together. In retrospect, it's been relatively painless because I learned the rules of the game before I started to play.

[Mr. 2000 0]

I went downtown to the Clerk of Court, or something along those lines. They will run a check and print out all records of your marriages within the last 10 or so years. That is the Certificate of No-marriage. Make sure you have all your divorce paperwork as well, to prove you're no longer married. All that paperwork you download from the consulate website must be done in the US. I personally did all this last May, and I can probably hunt down the information if you need help.

Also, "further certification" means that you first need to get the papers notarized, then you need to bring them to your Secretary of State, who will certify that each notary is legitimate. Apparently the VN consulate can only certify people of the rank of Secretary of State.

Again, the power of attorney means nothing. The mental status exam they make you do in the US means nothing - it will not be accepted and they will require that you get examined at a hospital of their choosing.

Out of curiosity, where was your first wife from? It seems like this is your first time dealing with Vietnam, so I'm just curious to know how much easier it was for another country.

Yeah this part is really tripping me up, because I was married to my ex in a different city/county from where I currently reside AND divorced in a different county as well, and each county has their own Clerk of Court. I called the one for my current county and they have no records of any marriages since they only have marriage records for their own county - so there is nothing for them to print. So should I just tell them to do a "single search" for me for my current county, or should I have that done in the county where I was last married...or do I need to get some kind of documents from both? Honestly, I don't even know what to ask for or whether I need to get them from my current county or the one where the marriage took place.

Even if they ask me to do the mental exam again in VN, I believe I still need to do it here in order to send the document package to the VN embassy here in DC. I can't skip it, right?

My ex wife was from Japan, and the process to get a K1 visa went very smoothly from start to finish...of course, this was before 9/11 and before the US decided to strip away our rights in the name of "national security".

[luckytxn 2,263]

Don't be hasty people. There are times when citizens can come into the consulate and chat with someone. At that time he can and I urge him to go in then and explain as in the harshest way possible how we are citizens and have rights and so on. In fact it is best to accentuate the words being spoke by slamming your hand down on whatever as you do this.

[BinhJerome 14]

Yeah this part is really tripping me up, because I was married to my ex in a different city/county from where I currently reside AND divorced in a different county as well, and each county has their own Clerk of Court. I called the one for my current county and they have no records of any marriages since they only have marriage records for their own county - so there is nothing for them to print. So should I just tell them to do a "single search" for me for my current county, or should I have that done in the county where I was last married...or do I need to get some kind of documents from both? Honestly, I don't even know what to ask for or whether I need to get them from my current county or the one where the marriage took place.

Even if they ask me to do the mental exam again in VN, I believe I still need to do it here in order to send the document package to the VN embassy here in DC. I can't skip it, right?

My ex wife was from Japan, and the process to get a K1 visa went very smoothly from start to finish...of course, this was before 9/11 and before the US decided to strip away our rights in the name of "national security".

Your current county clerk is what you have to have. Just have them write out a letter stating there are no records of any marriages that you are involved in within (blank years) then have then notorize it, if they are like my county they will say we cannot do this because there are other counties or any other double talk to have them simply state that there is no state database currently in effect, but for their records there is no marriage's on file for you with in blank years, or something to that extent and you will be good to go. On the side note that everyone keeps bringing up about your "warped" knowledge of the immigration situation. We all do agree with you that if the relationship is real there should not be any problems, in my case we were denied, but the CO actually lied for the reasons of our denial, and this was brought to the attention of the US side of imigration through my lawyer, and after even proving that the CO lied in his reason for denial (we had his notes where he noted I was at the consulate 5 days prior to his request for a denial and another note that I was at the embassy to submit the timeline) he stated I had only made one trip to Vietnam, back in the US they said they were sorry for what had happened, but that they could not simply issue us a visa because they were not allowed to issue visa's in the US, only deny them, and that any visa had to be issued through the embassy. Basically they said "damn you caught one of our employee's in a lie, we are sorry, but we refuse to really do anything about it, and BTW because you brought this up your chances for an immediate refile will be slim since by the time it gets there word will be out how you got one of the CO's in trouble and they may or may not be out for revenge of one of their buddies, but.... they might also simply give you an approval so they dont risk you getting a lawyer again." Ours was a K1 visa, which now is being challanged in court because they (Mainly HCMC) are not giving people the right to do a rebuttal of the CO's findings, and this is what the USC has a right to, but we dont have the right to the visa. The service centers seem to let some cases simply expire, while others they give the person a chance at a rebuttal, kinda unfair if you look at it, and this is what is going through the courts currently. But seriously look at all the people who have done what you are saying is so simple and they have been denied. Many people have gotten married and still been denied, there are people who have even filed 2 or 3 times only to get 2 or 3 denials. The reason for this is unkown for all of us, but for sure they were not prepared the first time out, and usually the second time either simply because they felt that they couldn't possibly deny us a second time well guess what they can and did deny them 2 or 3 times, and with each subsiquent denial for them they are one step closer to getting a p6 marker tied to them which means a lifetime ban for them to even come to the US on a visitors visa, let alone on an immigrant visa. I know this might sound like doom and gloom as I have stated other people here will do, and there are also many people that should never have been approved yet they were and it was easily done to many peoples outrage or disbelief. You seriously should not go in unprepared, I do not and will not tell you that you need to make 4 or 5 trips, this is all your choice, and if you want to argue about your income to the board this is also fine, clearly in your posts your business has enough assets that you should be fine in that area, the concern is that because on paper you don't make enough some people feel that this is a red flag, but the fact is NO ONE knows what a red flag REALLY IS. We can all say this or that is a red flag, and for some people who think they have them, go through without a problem while others seem to get tripped up over the same thing time and again, this is what most people feel are red flags. All I am saying is to go in there thinking it might be tough, and do what you want to do, but if you get denied or put into AP and you come back here crying about it there will be no sympathy for you because you have clearly decided that you will not have any problems, I feel that you will be fine as long as you do what you want to do, and as long as YOU are prepared to live with the consequences of what you prepare or do not prepare for, after all it is YOUR life not ours, and many people will try to cram what you should do down your throat, but this is human nature, and the nature of people that give advice, they forget that because it did or did not work for them that it doesn't mean that the same thing will happen to the next person, this is HCMC and it is full of such things. Good luck getting your papers together and getting your wedding done fast, it is possible, as long as you have everything ready before you arrive, if not then the only way it will happen fast is if you pay or get very lucky. Jerome

[hniHnitsuJ 8]

My wife and her kids are now with me in the US (in the state you HATE), and living happily together. In retrospect, it's been relatively painless because I learned the rules of the game before I started to play.

Anh Chim!!! Did you count me in??? I am from OC, California. My wife and I are very happy in CALI. Nice weather, and no SNOW!!!

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

My wife and her kids are now with me in the US (in the state you HATE), and living happily together. In retrospect, it's been relatively painless because I learned the rules of the game before I started to play.

Anh Chim!!! Did you count me in??? I am from OC, California. My wife and I are very happy in CALI. Nice weather, and no SNOW!!!

My wife and kids like it too, but this year has been bizarre. While the east coast is baking like an overcooked lasagna, the west coast has been abnormally cool. We went for a walk around the neighborhood yesterday evening (as we do most days), and we both had to put on jackets because it was about 60 degrees - IN JULY! Phuong even wore ear muffs! They say this is one of the coolest years in the SF bay area in the past 40 years. If this is "climate change" I'll take it!

By the way, "Chim" didn't write this post, just in case Phuong asks.

[Mr. 2000 0]

Ok, I am following the steps on this site to prepare the marriage application:

http://www.vietnamembassy.us/consular_services/marry_a_vietnamese/

I have questions that I'm trying to clarify:

1) By completing the steps on that website and sending my documents to the VN Embassy before going to VN, it is my understanding that it will shave off the time it takes the marriage to go through when I am actually in VN and the papers get submitted to the justice center - is that correct?

2) My girl is saying that it will take about 10 days to get an interview after we hand in the papers, but a poster here said that they got their interview the next day after they submitted their papers. Is there a typical time frame for getting an interview after submitting the papers in VN?

I'm trying to get an idea of how long I will have to stay in VN...after talking to my girl it's looking like I will be spending the better part of a month there. Not all bad, more time with the love of my life...but I cannot forgo my obligations in the states for too long.