My Vietnamese girlfriend and me need help

[luckytxn 2,263]

Hey good luck and God bless dude. You are going to need it.

[Anh map 2,098]

I have spoken with an attorney as did my girl, and both of them said that with a marriage visa the embassy cannot really decline it. Preparation is one thing but going overboard does not guarantee success nor does it really improve the chances of success. I welcome the advice anyone has to provide but I will follow it at my own discretion. You should know that everyone's case is unique and what worked/didn't work for one couple is not necessarily something that would work for us.

You can bet I will be arguing that during the interview if there is any question. VN is not somewhere I want to go...really...I have no desire to go to any 3rd world country, nevermind a communist country...while many people may not share my sentiment it does show that I'm completely serious about this. The student visa is not related to this, and once 30 days have elapsed since the last interview it should be a non issue. If they ask, we will simply tell the truth. The previous marriage is NOT a red flag because I did marry the girl, she did become a US citizen and got her green card...and it was over 10 years ago, so it's not like I'm marrying foreign women left and right - and the lawyer I spoke to said the same thing, it's not bad that I did marry a girl on a K1 visa before since we both did it right. Insufficient income according to the tax return should not be an issue because I can easily show that I meet the requirements by submitting assets, even with the 3:1 ratio.

Just to reinforce what others have said, HCMC is different from most embassies. There are several VJ members that petitioned for their spouse and would up in AP for several months to over one year.

Also, you will not be present at the interview. You can be standing across the street. Only the beneficiary (fiance(e)/spouse) is allowed into that part of the consualte.

Do the research, consider all the input, and prepare accordingly.

Thinking that you can go in to any embassy and give it the old (banging fist on desk)"I am an American citizen and am entitled to have my wife with me ASAP" is fiction. It just doesn't work that way.

Edited July 25, 2010 by Anh map

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

It would be really useful if we could compile a list of all the denial threads, especially the ones that include detailed information about the circumstances leading up to the denial (the "red flags"), and a copy of the denial letter or a transcript of it's contents. This would help a lot when new members come with a basic plan that involves meeting the minimum requirements and no more.

Mr. 2000, any rational person who had not ever dealt with a consulate in a high fraud country like Vietnam would probably not think there was anything wrong with your plan. If your fiancee were from Canada or England then you'd probably be hearing kudos instead of criticism here. You really need to come to grips with the reality of the consulate you are dealing with. If you are very well prepared and your case on paper is compelling enough, then the interview may be a mere formality. On the other hand, if your fiancee goes into the consulate with the red flags you currently have, and you've done nothing to try to mitigate them, then the fires of hell will seem tame compared to what that consular officer is going to put her through. There are many people who have been fried at the consulate in HCMC, and their relationship was just as sincere and as real as yours. Some of them have even posted in this thread.

The consulate will apply Vietnamese traditions when evaluating your relationship, in spite of the fact you are not Viet Kieu. It is true that many modern Vietnamese don't follow these traditions themselves, and if they were interviewing at the US consulate in HCMC then they would also be shot down.

The consular officer will begin with the presumption that your wife is a fraud who is playing you for a green card. The circumstances of your case need to convince them otherwise. There is ample evidence that the decision is made before the applicant even steps up to the window. I can confirm that my wife and step-daughter saw the approval slip on the CO's desk when they approached the interview window. The CO could only have made this decision based on what they saw in the file and the submitted documents, since they had never talked to me or my wife before this. Many others have also confirmed this - they saw the pink, blue, green, or white sheet already prepared before the interview began. Don't pin your hopes on your wife telling your love story at the interview. There's a strong possibility she'll never get the chance. The armload of evidence she is expected to bring to the interview will only be used to confirm the decision they've already made. In many cases, she won't get an opportunity to submit any of it.

The CO's in HCMC look very hard at your finances. If your income is below the threshold or you barely qualify then YOU become a suspect, as well. There are many immigration fraud rings that have been broken up in the US involving Vietnamese paying Americans to marry girls in Vietnam and bring them to the US. Having a low or borderline income makes you look like a prime candidate for one of these scams. If she has family in the US, and you know any of them or were introduced to her by any of them, then the suspicion is multiplied. The rules for the I-864 affidavit of support are clearly spelled out in the instructions for the form. They are going to determine your income by looking at line 22 on the 1040, and NOT by looking at your gross revenues on schedule C. If your total income is not enough then you're going to need assets to qualify or a joint sponsor. You will not be able to argue your way around this like you can when applying for a car loan.

You have five years invested in this relationship. However, since you haven't met face-to-face yet you are still near the beginning of the consulates "timeline of relationship". This means you have the opportunity to craft that timeline in any way you wish to improve your chances of getting a visa. The Vietnam subforum here is relatively new, but take some time to read the threads here and learn from the experience of others. Also, look in the Asia: East and Pacific forum for some of the older Vietnam threads. You wouldn't make a rash uninformed decision with your business. Don't make one with your relationship.

[ScottThuy 140]

It would be really useful if we could compile a list of all the denial threads, especially the ones that include detailed information about the circumstances leading up to the denial (the "red flags"), and a copy of the denial letter or a transcript of it's contents. This would help a lot when new members come with a basic plan that involves meeting the minimum requirements and no more.

Marc listed some great examples of what they use as excuses to deny in this article.. most of the reasons for denial are listed there. It could be difficult tracking the red flags of cases as many times people dont realize its a red flag until someone tells them it is.. often we think we have them all addressed and dont realize that no matter how well we address them, they still exist and can cause delay or denial.

Even if the reason isnt true, that does not mean a CO can't use it against you as Jermone has inidicated the CO provided false statements in his denial...

The list of reasons for denial that Marc provided can be used as a good tool of what to look out for when dealing with HCMC... it could be easier and almost as informative if we start a topic listing causes for denial, Reasons for 221G (common missing info, extra investigation or AP), and red flags that have been identified common or not...

A logical rational person would look at the examples of reasons for denial and say "that couldn't happen could it?" but as we well know they can and do happen too often..

[WeatherEmperor 21]

This is a really dumb question but where on the 1040EZ form do you find Line 22? Mine is only 1 page and goes to Line 13: Amount you owe. I even looked on my W-2 and that goes up to Line 20: Locality Name. Does this Line 22 refer to your Federal Taxable Income? My Federal Adjusted Gross Income for 2009 was $33,300. Do you think this would be a problem at the Consulate level?

<CARRICK>

[ScottThuy 140]

Carrick.. you make more than enough on paper no problems with your income for you and her... .... did you get the tax transcripts from IRS?

I have to wonder if they would require income verification from your parents since you guys will be living with them to save up $ for a while... or will you be getting a new place?

[WeatherEmperor 21]

I moved into my own place 6 months ago for the reason you mentioned above. I did not want the Consulate to blue slip Thu for my parent's birth certificates or address for the last 10 years or parents income verification. I figured that if I lived on my own, the Consulate would be less likely to suspect "family" involvement in our meeting and/or relationship.

<CARRICK>

[ScottThuy 140]

I moved into my own place 6 months ago for the reason you mentioned above. I did not want the Consulate to blue slip Thu for my parent's birth certificates or address for the last 10 years or parents income verification. I figured that if I lived on my own, the Consulate would be less likely to suspect "family" involvement in our meeting and/or relationship.

<CARRICK>

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

This is a really dumb question but where on the 1040EZ form do you find Line 22? Mine is only 1 page and goes to Line 13: Amount you owe. I even looked on my W-2 and that goes up to Line 20: Locality Name. Does this Line 22 refer to your Federal Taxable Income? My Federal Adjusted Gross Income for 2009 was $33,300. Do you think this would be a problem at the Consulate level?

<CARRICK>

They use the AGI number from a 1040EZ, line 4. It's on page 8 of the I-864 instructions:

For purposes of this affidavit, the line for gross (total) income on IRS Forms 1040 and 1040A will be considered when determining income. For persons filing IRS Form 1040 EZ, the line for adjusted gross income will be considered.

The OP runs a business, so I'm certain he files a 1040 and a schedule C. He probably also files a schedule A to itemize his deductions.

[hniHnitsuJ 8]

I have spoken with an attorney as did my girl, and both of them said that with a marriage visa the embassy cannot really decline it. Preparation is one thing but going overboard does not guarantee success nor does it really improve the chances of success. I welcome the advice anyone has to provide but I will follow it at my own discretion. You should know that everyone's case is unique and what worked/didn't work for one couple is not necessarily something that would work for us.

hahahha.. wow.. good luck mang.

it's better to reading this thread than giving my opinion....

You can bet I will be arguing that during the interview if there is any question. VN is not somewhere I want to go...really...I have no desire to go to any 3rd world country, nevermind a communist country...

VN is My-Mother-Land. I was wondering why are you marry a Vietnamese girl in the first place??? Just to reminder you. Your children (IF) will soon be 1/2 Vietnamese.

[Mr. 2000 0]

Don't get mad at the forum members because they're not telling you what you want to hear. The lawyers I talked to before starting the CR1 paperwork were informative, but not necessary. I researched A LOT, then asked a few questions for clarification. I also talked to a couple of incompetent lawyers as well. The forum as a whole have been MUCH more useful.

Get mad? Who's getting mad? I don't doubt that there is useful information on this forum but quite a few posters simply add the whole "doom and gloom" lecture rather than providing helpful insight. For example, I realize that there are some potential issues for me such as my previous marriage, my income documentation and my girl's recent attempt at a student visa in my state...so what should I do to address each of these so that they are not a problem for me later down the line?

Also, don't hate the country just because of its socioeconomic status or political affiliation. Just like in the US, there are good and bad people everywhere, regardless.

I don't have to like it the country of Vietnam to love a woman who happens to live there - it's not like she chose that place. Also I never said Vietnamese people are bad, but I do not agree with communism, socialism or any other form of totalitarian government. California is another place that I loathe, not because there is anything wrong with the land, I just dislike what it represents - in my view, California is the poster of all that's wrong with America but that is an entirely different topic.

Just know that the HCMC consulate owes you nothing; they've heard every "love story" in the book, and have been scammed by many people throughout the years. I'll venture to say that they're looking for ANY reason, anything suspicious. YOU will NOT be allowed at the interview, and it is unlikely you'll ever personally speak to anyone of importance.

Actually, being that the US Embassy is a US government institution, it does owe me a level of service and quality as describe in the laws related to my case. They do not have a right to trample MY rights as a US Citizen due to their misguided notions of fraud. There is action that people can take within the USA to compel the Embassy to do what it is supposed to do...also, in the USA any law on the books can be challenged in court if there is merit, and if you've been following the headlines, immigration is certainly a hot issue at this time.

The US really has no reason to make it difficult for people to legally enter the country. The process to get a US Visa for any country should be a matter of doing a criminal background check and possibly some kind of medical exam - that is all. The whole guilty until proven innocent thing is entirely unconstitutional, and therefore, something that can and should be challenged in federal court...again...that is another topic.

My point is if you are a US Citizen you never have to accept what is given to you. If you feel your rights have been violated or have not been fulfilled by the current system you do have a way to bring about change.

It would be really useful if we could compile a list of all the denial threads, especially the ones that include detailed information about the circumstances leading up to the denial (the "red flags"), and a copy of the denial letter or a transcript of it's contents. This would help a lot when new members come with a basic plan that involves meeting the minimum requirements and no more.

The consulate will apply Vietnamese traditions when evaluating your relationship, in spite of the fact you are not Viet Kieu. It is true that many modern Vietnamese don't follow these traditions themselves, and if they were interviewing at the US consulate in HCMC then they would also be shot down.

I think the general idea is to explain why you did something a certain way if it significantly differs from what is expected. My girl and I will have wedding pics along with her family to show, and her family is well aware of our plans to get married soon.

You have five years invested in this relationship. However, since you haven't met face-to-face yet you are still near the beginning of the consulates "timeline of relationship". This means you have the opportunity to craft that timeline in any way you wish to improve your chances of getting a visa. The Vietnam subforum here is relatively new, but take some time to read the threads here and learn from the experience of others. Also, look in the Asia: East and Pacific forum for some of the older Vietnam threads. You wouldn't make a rash uninformed decision with your business. Don't make one with your relationship.

I wouldn't be posting here if I was carelessly and blindly rushing into things...but by the same token I am not going to drag my feet for the sake of the embassy in VN.

VN is My-Mother-Land. I was wondering why are you marry a Vietnamese girl in the first place??? Just to reminder you. Your children (IF) will soon be 1/2 Vietnamese.

My girl and I share a special connection that I have not been able to find with any other woman, anywhere. We kinda met randomly and have had our ups and downs over the years but we could never part ways with each other. Now I feel we're both at a place in our lives where we can both get married and live a happy life together.

Now a lot of people have been telling me that I have "red flags" but nobody has really shared any good info on how I should go about addressing them.

- Previous Marriage:

I was married in 2000 via a K1 Visa, we did live together for the full duration of 5 years. My ex wife did follow all the procedures, etc. What about this is a red flag and what is a good way to address it in my application?

- Income:

Since my tax returns do not show enough income to meet the "poverty guidelines" I plan to include my business bank statement to show that my account has had more than enough money to exceed 125% of the guidline, even with the 3:1 ratio. Will that be enough to address that issue?

- Student Visa:

My girl applied for a student visa to attend a school in my state. Her last interview for that was 7.20.2010 so we plan to get married sometime after 8.20.2010 (30 days after). Is there anything else we should do to address this matter?

By the way, before I asked if it is possible for my girl to get the marriage certificate without me being present. The answer is YES, however I need to provide my girl with a "power of attorney" form. The form is only usable if the spouse (me) does not live in VN.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

Actually, being that the US Embassy is a US government institution, it does owe me a level of service and quality as describe in the laws related to my case. They do not have a right to trample MY rights as a US Citizen due to their misguided notions of fraud. There is action that people can take within the USA to compel the Embassy to do what it is supposed to do...also, in the USA any law on the books can be challenged in court if there is merit, and if you've been following the headlines, immigration is certainly a hot issue at this time.

The US really has no reason to make it difficult for people to legally enter the country. The process to get a US Visa for any country should be a matter of doing a criminal background check and possibly some kind of medical exam - that is all. The whole guilty until proven innocent thing is entirely unconstitutional, and therefore, something that can and should be challenged in federal court...again...that is another topic.

My point is if you are a US Citizen you never have to accept what is given to you. If you feel your rights have been violated or have not been fulfilled by the current system you do have a way to bring about change.

Ah, but what you are forgetting is that you are not applying for anything at the Embassy Stage of the process.

Initially you will apply for the ability to sponsor her immigration to the US but after that it's all her.

There is no "right" to any immigration benefit for either you or her. It is a privilege that must be earned.

As for making it difficult to immigrate, there are numerous reasons not the least of which is to protect US Citizens (including you).

BTW, is she a "Girl" or a "Woman"? You say to have this special connection but talk about her like an objectified child. My wife was never anything less than I am in words or deeds and I never referred to her as anything less than my Asawa, partner and soul-mate.

Edited July 26, 2010 by Bob 4 Anna

[Anh map 2,098]

From what you are saying the two big challenges ahead are: demonstrating a bona fide relationship and the I-864 affidavit of support. Proving a love relationship can be tough regardless of circumstances. All of us here (in the VN forum) have entered into a relationship with someone living in a country that has a very high fraud history. So like it or not, we all must carry the extra burden.

Also, it's been hotly debated if it is wise to frontload the petition with information. Here is the advice that I was given, and followed, when putting together my petition: The CO can only evaluate what is presented for review. Meaning that evidence that is part of the file sent to the consulate has an opportunity to be weighed prior to the interview. Papers passed under the glass partition by your SO are likely to be quickly scanned and set aside for further review if needed after the interview is complete. See the forum for LOTS of discussion of front loading.

A timeline of the relationship seems to be an unofficial requirement at HCMC these days. This timeline can be in outline or narrative form. Both have been submitted and accepted. Search the VN forum for extensive timeline discussion and examples.

This timeline helps to address the relationship bona fides. The couple has to demonstrate to the CO's satisfaction that the relationship is genuine. If you have past email, snail mail, chat logs, phone records that support your timeline those are good to submit. Not every single one, but a representative sample that demonstrates a developing relationship over time. More visits can be helpful. Many have been sucessful with one visit. It comes down to what you show the CO about the relationship.

Regarding the business account I would suggest that demonstrating personal assets would be a stronger case. It is up to the CO's discretion as to what is accepted. They want to see what is available to support the two of you. Relying on working capital may cause some concern for a CO. This I-864 FAQ may be helpful for you -->> http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3183.html

Edited July 26, 2010 by Anh map

[Dai. 7]

Power of attorney, in Vietnam? I didnt know such thing exist there. Lol

Anyways, my wife was in the same situation, she tried for student visa 5 or 6 times before marrying me. The last time she tried it was 5 months before we sign the marriage certificate and the filed the I-130. We didnt address it at all for the interview. We probably got lucky and they didnt ask her anything about it. With the hcmc consulate the nonimmigrant visa side is the opposite side of the immigrant side and I think they are separated. I think what over shadowed the fact that she got denied for student visa so much, was that we took alot of overseas trip together to thailand and other countries giving her so many stamps in her passport that I think they probably overlooked the denial for student visa stamps, but that is just my theory. My wife got the visa approval on the 1st try with no blue slip or ap at all. The CO and tranlator tried to give her a hard time during the interview but I think she did so well they gave her the pink slip.

Good luck man.

[Mr. 2000 0]

From what you are saying the two big challenges ahead are: demonstrating a bona fide relationship and the I-864 affidavit of support. Proving a love relationship can be tough regardless of circumstances. All of us here (in the VN forum) have entered into a relationship with someone living in a country that has a very high fraud history. So like it or not, we all must carry the extra burden.

Also, it's been hotly debated if it is wise to frontload the petition with information. Here is the advice that I was given, and followed, when putting together my petition: The CO can only evaluate what is presented for review. Meaning that evidence that is part of the file sent to the consulate has an opportunity to be weighed prior to the interview. Papers passed under the glass partition by your SO are likely to be quickly scanned and set aside for further review if needed after the interview is complete. See the forum for LOTS of discussion of front loading.

A timeline of the relationship seems to be an unofficial requirement at HCMC these days. This timeline can be in outline or narrative form. Both have been submitted and accepted. Search the VN forum for extensive timeline discussion and examples.

This timeline helps to address the relationship bona fides. The couple has to demonstrate to the CO's satisfaction that the relationship is genuine. If you have past email, snail mail, chat logs, phone records that support your timeline those are good to submit. Not every single one, but a representative sample that demonstrates a developing relationship over time. More visits can be helpful. Many have been sucessful with one visit. It comes down to what you show the CO about the relationship.

Regarding the business account I would suggest that demonstrating personal assets would be a stronger case. It is up to the CO's discretion as to what is accepted. They want to see what is available to support the two of you. Relying on working capital may cause some concern for a CO. This I-864 FAQ may be helpful for you -->> http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/info/info_3183.html

Yeah, we have a lot of emails, chat logs, paper letters, gifts and phone records to support the relationship actually existing.

Well I am a homeowner and my business account is also in my name as well, so to satisfy the concerns of either of us becoming a "public charge", I think that should be sufficient. I own my business and its income is essentially my income.

A few questions: Does my presence in VN during her interview have any affect on the outcome, or is it more like a moral support thing for her? Considering our particulars, what can she expect to be asked during the interview?