Riots in Oakland

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Now here is a sweet bobby.

He served in the revolutionary riots of 1968 and both coal miner's strikes. He was spat on and dragged under the moving wheels of semi trucks.

Only a very few hotheads though and the crowd could be controlled in a very gentle English manner and he never felt really threatened - ever.

He couldn't shoot anybody coz he didn't have a gun...he sure didn't want one either.

Nobody wanted to shoot him coz he hadn't killed any of their friends and they could escape with no chance of him shooting at them.

Chicken and egg situation but it takes someone to make the first move and the culture has to be right.

[Captain Oates 910]

Course I am not old and joined when I was a foetus as you could at 15 inches tall. Them foeti can kick you know !

Come to think of it, a lot of US Policemen look like foetuses with their shiny shaved heads and podgy fingers.

oh dear I am wandering again..ok pork chop time..

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

Why are you insisting that I do your fact-checking for you? I mean, if I posted "the sky is blue" would you demand a wikipedia link?

What a wonderful example of human misconception (note: I did not use the term ignorance) you gave us here! Color is not an inherent quality of the sky or any object. What is the "sky" anyway? The color perceived of any object by a subject, i.e., a person, is based an many factors, of which an important one is light frequency. For a dog the sky is greenish gray, and you may call it blue. (Read up on Qualia). Sometimes the sky appears to be orange, like it's on fire. And then there is the question of what we really know or can know. I could write a 40-page paper on this (I actually did when I was in college), but that's not the point. The point is that you claimed with certainty something to be self evident which is not.

Hope that answered your question. It always makes sense to check credible sources for any claims made. Go Sarah Palin!

Nothing personal; no offense intended.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Just Bob

[Captain Oates 910]

Love that 'self evident' stuff..

I am watching FOX today as their lies are much better done than MSNBC's lies.

Example (Beck 1 hour ago) "The liberals in the 20th century even painted the founding fathers as racist !"

Given that they all had a bunch of slaves each (the nicer looking females of which had coffee coloured babies by said founding fathers), it's amazing that he could spin that - he did it really well.

Example 2 15 mins ago, "BP swapped Libyan oil concessions for the Lockerbie Bomber's release and the UK government were complicit - another reason to hate BP."

Actually I agree with that BUT they didn't mention that all the big US oil companies also got their share of Libyan concessions on the same day !

So our perceptions depend on

A Which channel we tune to

B What bits of the picture they chose to feed to us

Basically all US 'news' channels will mislead us more than inform us - lie to us rather than help us to a reasonable conclusion

I sometime wish my eyes were not so wide open as it just causes despair. If I was a simple soul who didn't know the founding fathers bonked their slaves or that Exxon is in Libya, I could go talk semi nazi ####### at the gun club and be certain in my perceptions that the founding fathers were saints and foreigners BP (British Petroleum they call em) are the only baddies - and certain of my identikit political affiliations.

BP / British Petroleum

Londonderry/Derry

Same earth - different dimensions - different realities

[Sofiyya 1,687]

This doesn't excuse the founders, but slavery was very common back then. So much so that even free Blacks and Native Americans owned slaves, and bonked them. And, not all slaves were Black; some were White. For many, slavery wasn't about race or racism, but economics.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

We're all slaves and the government is boinking us big time.

[Atencio 43]

And, not all slaves were Black; some were White.

And that is something you will not see in the history books being given to school children.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

And that is something you will not see in the history books being given to school children.

Oh boy

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

I think we should go back to the McGuffey Readers. Didn't do Henry Ford a lick of harm.

[Captain Oates 910]

This doesn't excuse the founders, but slavery was very common back then. So much so that even free Blacks and Native Americans owned slaves, and bonked them. And, not all slaves were Black; some were White. For many, slavery wasn't about race or racism, but economics.

ok slavery was multi race - agreed - the Brits who were sent to Georgia penal colonies were auctioned. Don't know if they were bonked. We don't have a word 'slaveryism' (yet), but if we had, slaveryism would be worse than a drunk calling someone the N word - and therefore the founding fathers were guilty of something worse than racism.

The values were 'of their time', which means that the Constitution and bill of rights and the declaration of independence were 'of their time'. That means that they could be simply wrong right now. The bible claims eternal values and so does the output of the founding fathers - but it's pretty obvious that stoning people and bonking slaves are not eternal values - and if they aren't, then how come the 2nd amendment is forever and an eternal value ? Freedom to own guns , freedom to bonk slaves, freedom to stone your cheating wife. These are not eternal freedoms and values.

I think the British system of NOT having a written constitution and thereby updating laws to modern times constantly, is a better system. Also this founding fathers thing reminds me of personality cults like North Korea or Uganda under Idi Armin or Russia under Stalin. The 'we the people' bit is the only eternal value that should be recognized and fixed - and even that was largely ripped off from the English in it's bill of rights of 1689 before Great Britain existed.

Quote:

That all and singular the rights and liberties asserted and claimed in the said declaration, are the true, ancient, and indubitable rights and liberties of the people of this kingdom, and so shall be esteemed, allowed, adjudged, deemed, and taken to be, and that all and every the particulars aforesaid shall be firmly and strictly holden and observed, as they are expressed in the said declaration; and all officers and ministers whatsoever shall serve their Majesties and their successors according to the same in all times to come.

Given that slavery is now illegal in the US, and racism is illegal as far as employment, law enforcement etc is concerned, it's understandable that the 'genuine' rioters want to keep that progress and protest those Police actions which are inspired by racism. The opportunist criminals should be arrested and charged - no amnesty

ps I have four rifles and 3 handguns. I can tell them apart even in the dark. If I had a tazer or a cricket bat, I would be able to tell the difference between those and any of my guns. How many incidents have occurred when a Police Officer was killed because he accidentally pulled his Tazer when he meant to reach for his Glock ?

pps Isn't it funny that people naturalising during Prohibition supported the constitution which included prohibition,.. Those who naturalised a few years later, supported the constitution which had abolished prohibition. So we naturalisers swear allegiance to something that might be totally reversed the day after we swear allegiance to it - good eh

It's like marriage - we swear to love the person our spouses will have become in 50 years time - bit of a blank check if you ask me

Bit of a winding post but some of it is on topic...

[KaiserD 12]

Oh boy

It's true though, an important fact of Cornish history and never seen in a school. Thomas Pellow.

[Captain Oates 910]

It's true though, an important fact of Cornish history and never seen in a school. Thomas Pellow.

The best Cornish pasty I ever had was in the 'last pub' at land's end

It was 2 shillings and 3 pence and was made with fresh turnip with white pepper and cubes of meat and potato and onion.

I can still remember it... I dream about it

The beer is ####### as it's south of Yorkshire - but the REAL pasties are /were unbeatably swoony

My dad was stationed in Cornwall protecting the transatlantic cable 1939 to 1941 - he moved my mum down there and got her a room at a farmhouse near sennen cove - now that's a cushy number !!!

[KaiserD 12]

You wouldn't think that some beef, potato and turnip wrapped in some pastry could taste as good as it does. I'm sure my ancestors would cry tears of laughter at my efforts but I do try It's true the best food usually comes from some little unknown place just getting quietly by.

I dream about being in Truro buying pasties all the time, need to get passports sorted out lol

Where is your family originally from again? I bet she found it pretty cold. It would take me a long time to get used to the wind chill if I went back there to live especially after hot Georgia summers.

Edited July 11, 2010 by KaiserD

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

I think the British system of NOT having a written constitution and thereby updating laws to modern times constantly, is a better system.

I tend to agree. I will point out that my knowledge of US constitutional law is shaky compared to that of Britain's, but in my Constitutional Law class I was always impressed with how the British constitution could change with the times and be flexible enough to be responsive to pressing problems quickly. Things get glommed on as needed -- black letter law, case law, scholarly articles, speeches reported in Hansard, dictionary definitions, conventions... it's a total mess and shouldn't work, but astonishingly it does. All of this makes me want to dig out my copy of Dicey. But I digress. Because Parliament has the power to pass any legislation it sees fit to pass, and is not required to go through the process of procuring amendments to the constitution as is done here (and which can fail miserably or take ages), the British constitution for all its messiness is a nimbler creature than that of the US.

I'm not saying one is better than the other; they're just very different animals. We're stuck with this here US constitution creature, and it's a lovely thing, sleek and beautiful. I like it too. I also like the messy old cob of the British.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I am a little put off by Brits waxing eternal about a system America rejected more that 200 years ago.