Riots in Oakland

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How many times are you going to repeat yourself Slim? If I was unconvinced the first time what makes you think the tenth time will be the charm?

I think its interesting that you are spending all this time posting about something you apparently feel strongly about but not once will you follow through with specifics.

Someone who feels that strongly would have evidence to hand and be able to cite it comprehensively and authoritatively. You apparent don't.

[slim 1,514]

Post #117

Please explain why all of you are jumping to the conclusion that I meant that to be violent. Nowhere in this thread have I advocated violence or posted anything remotely insulting or derogatory to anyone. Every single one of my posts have been in compliance with TOS.

First, I fail to see how my failure to read, absorb and analyse the minutiae of VJers posting in totum means that I am not informed. Do you know what knickers I'm wearing today? I posted about that.

I don't care which knickers you're wearing and I'm not asking you to prove it either.

Second, I have reiterated that I am open to being swayed in my opinion that you are wrong, but I need something in the way of proof that surpasses "it's true because I say so." I don't consider myself to be any more or less ignorant on this topic than the average person who has lived in both the US and UK for extended periods of time. I know my experience in both countries, but ultimately it is anecdotal and not persuasive. I like statistics, swoony graphs, footnotes, etc.

So go find them. If you don't believe me, that's your business.

T

hird, I'm a girlygirlysqueeeee! variety of chick, who wears high heels and makeup every day. I just happen to also be curious and tenacious on occasion.

Which has what to do with this conversation?

And lastly, your violence was implied when you stated that there was a way to take care of Six but it was illegal. Sorry if I read that wrong, but it came across as "Yo Six, I'm gonna pop a cap in yo azz", but of course there can be no gun at this juncture. So maybe just an arranged car accident? Who can say.

Hugs!

Why are you jumping to the conclusion that I meant it would be violent? Illegal doesn't automatically equal violent, does it?

Someone who feels that strongly would have evidence to hand and be able to cite it comprehensively and authoritatively. You apparent don't.

Either that or I've just refused to post it.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't know what I'm talking about? You tossed out a blatant threat and are now trying to deny that that is what it was.

I'm surprised you can write that with a straight face.

[Heracles 417]

I have no problem with it because it's reality. What is not reality is willfully handing the police power to overstep my 4th Amendment rights simply because SOME criminals choose to disobey the law. I would never, ever consider handing over my 2nd Amendment rights because SOME criminals choose to disobey the law. Recently, I chose to disobey the law and as such, I was compelled to waive my rights for a while. I'm doing so right now. I don't pretend to think everyone should simply because I did.

That is not a fact. America is safer because of guns. In the last 234 years we've pretty much dominated the planet, in large part because we're (or at least we were) a nation of marksmen. It has not become "more unsafe" at all. In fact, the crime rate is steadily declining once again.

This is 2010 Slim, a time when middle American states are now rusted out [has-been] ghost towns. While you think you dominate the planet and all that, in reality the majority are dirt poor are living a life akin to those residing in second and third world countries.

Most of us in the first world are interested in living a high quality of life during the one lifetime we have. Like so many middle Americans, you are more concerned with some misguide flag waiving patriotism, guns and the Constitution. All while so many live in trailers or towns that even rats wouldn't live in any more.

Edited July 11, 2010 by Booyah!

[Captain Oates 910]

Pssst -- I'm a chick

Yes and she's a fine piece of womanhood too. She would fetch a pretty penny in many areas of the world - even on a COD and no returns basis.

Luckily, we Washington Stateoids don't have rioters because we have embraced apathy and pepsi which leaves us too fat and stultified to leave the house except for doughnuts.

The Police don't shoot us coz our speeding tickets are a valuable source of income.

Edited July 11, 2010 by saywhat

[slim 1,514]

I don't know what I'm talking about? You tossed out a blatant threat and are now trying to deny that that is what it was.

I'm surprised you can write that with a straight face.

How was that a threat?

This is 2010 Slim, a time when middle American states are now rusted out [has-been] ghost towns. While you think you dominate the planet and all that, in reality the majority are dirt poor are living a life akin to those residing in second and third world countries.

Most of us in the first world are interested in living a high quality of life during the one lifetime we have. Like so many middle Americans, you are more concerned with some misguide flag waiving patriotism, guns and the Constitution. All while so many live in trailers or towns that even rats wouldn't live in any more.

Spot-on and I'm not disagreeing with any of that. However, unlike AUS, there's still liberty in those towns.

The Police don't shoot us coz our speeding tickets are a valuable source of income.

So, in places like Oakland, where speeding tickets are not a good source of income (because folks would rather sit in jail than pay them) what are the cops supposed to do to raise money?

And do you think just because you don't live there you're somehow going to escape the wrong-doing that's done there? It will catch up to you someday.

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Yes and she's a fine piece of womanhood too. She would fetch a pretty penny in many areas of the world - even on a COD and no returns basis.

Thanks, love.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

How is it a threat?

Yeah sure. Right. Totally.

[Captain Oates 910]

amazing the diff to the UK

This Raoul Moat killed his girl friends new bf - then tried to kill her and a police officer.

They had a 6 hour stand off last night before the police tazered him and then he shot himself. The UK is enraged at this Police brutality - big inquiries

Imagine that in the US! They would have been using helicopter gunships and 30mm cannon on him immediately...

I share my shooting range with 200 police officers/prison officers/ICE etc and having inspected em at first hand, I am a amazed they didn't cut this guys ears off and take em home to hang on the cork board at the Police Station. It's a jungle here.

I accidentally went to the range last week while they were practicing and did a U turn in the middle of em. I must have looked very suspicious coz I am the only person who drives a car or anything less than 7 litres on the east of the cascades. I swear that half of em had their hands on their guns as I turned round and I felt like game.

Edited July 11, 2010 by saywhat

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

The UK isn't outraged by it - there is going to be a public inquiry to look into what happened and why it took so long for the police to catch the guy, but that's a question of accountability. Pretty reasonable imo - unlike the police shooting of the Brazilian electrician on the tube.

[Heracles 417]

Spot-on and I'm not disagreeing with any of that. However, unlike AUS, there's still liberty in those towns.

After being here for so many years, I'd think no other country has freedom but the United States. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but this is not the 1700's or even the communist years.

Law and order is how 2010 civilized countries maintain their high standard of living, which includes freedom to walk downtown without being shot dead. Whereas, freedom to some here is clearly having anti-government groups parading around the country with their guns.

In reality, the type of freedom you currently offer, no one else wants. Now considering people tend to imitate or copy what is the best approach, I'd say the rest of the free first world has democratically spoken and said sorry not interested.

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

Imagine that in the US! They would have been using helicopter gunships and 30mm cannon on him immediately...

i don't think the police have those.

[Captain Oates 910]

And do you think just because you don't live there you're somehow going to escape the wrong-doing that's done there? It will catch up to you someday.

No chance, they just need someone to be nice to them. The trouble is that US Police are overweight, overarmed and give out the wrong body language - confrontational, threatening bullying and macho. No wonder they get a response in kind.

An experienced Police Officer in the UK can deal with a crowd of 300 by choosing the right tactics and the right body language, and have em eating out of his hand in no time.

Pick the right person, call them over to you like you get a cat to come to you, wear a wry smile while maintaining an air of being in charge and assume a totally non threatening demeanor like they feel they are going to be spoken to by areasonable person rather than get a night stick in their loins. Works every time.

Of course the norm of policing here - making people crawl on the floor etc even in non threatening situations, is bound to store up resentments for later release. Just like Guantanamo.

Prevention is better than cure too so the crazy policing methods in the US just stoke up resentments for later release. If I go in the gun shop and there are Police there, they glower at me and pose with their weaponry. In the UK the local bobby would say hello and have a chat and actually learn about you at the same time as establishing a peaceful encounter for later favourable dividends.. I don't see that here. This is para military stuff on both sides - with para military outcomes.

[Ban Hammer 12,841]

An experienced Police Officer in the UK can deal with a crowd of 300 by choosing the right tactics and the right body language, and have em eating out of his hand in no time.

sounds like they might make good texas rangers then.

one riot, one ranger.

[Captain Oates 910]

sounds like they might make good texas rangers then.

one riot, one ranger.

Now here is a sweet bobby.

He served in the revolutionary riots of 1968 and both coal miner's strikes. He was spat on and dragged under the moving wheels of semi trucks.

Only a very few hotheads though and the crowd could be controlled in a very gentle English manner and he never felt really threatened - ever.

He couldn't shoot anybody coz he didn't have a gun...he sure didn't want one either.

Nobody wanted to shoot him coz he hadn't killed any of their friends and they could escape with no chance of him shooting at them.

Chicken and egg situation but it takes someone to make the first move and the culture has to be right.

Edited July 11, 2010 by saywhat