Male friend is in abusive marriage, need advice

[KittyPollitt 284]

Soo, my male friend from Morocco was going to school in the States on an F1 when he met a beautiful girl and they fell in love. He (perhaps prematurely) proposed to her, and they got married shortly after. I believe they were both 20 at the time. He finished school, and a few months into the marriage, he discovered that his wife has a history of mental illness (including commitments) and she became abusive toward him and was cutting herself. He called me in distress, I told him to leave, and he didn't take my advice. She ended up being hospitalized again, and they were trying to work things out, and filed for his AOS. In the meantime, he got a great job and is able to support them (despite her problems, he really cared for her at one time, perhaps still). She then began becoming abusive again, hitting him, and when he'd threaten to call the police, she'd thrash herself with a brush or a curling iron and told him she'd tell the cops he'd hit her. He's now terrified of her and doesn't sleep at night in fear she will kill him and then herself. Their AOS interview is in one month, and he's terribly torn as to what his options are, because he has a great job in America and likes living there, but because his schooling is finished, she's the only thing keeping him legal, so he has said.

What kind of advice should I give him? I personally told him I think he should swallow his pride and come home to Morocco, maybe use his degree to go to Europe. But he wants to stay in America. What can he do?

[justashooter 430]

Soo, my male friend from Morocco was going to school in the States on an F1 when he met a beautiful girl and they fell in love. He (perhaps prematurely) proposed to her, and they got married shortly after. I believe they were both 20 at the time. He finished school, and a few months into the marriage, he discovered that his wife has a history of mental illness (including commitments) and she became abusive toward him and was cutting herself. He called me in distress, I told him to leave, and he didn't take my advice. She ended up being hospitalized again, and they were trying to work things out, and filed for his AOS. In the meantime, he got a great job and is able to support them (despite her problems, he really cared for her at one time, perhaps still). She then began becoming abusive again, hitting him, and when he'd threaten to call the police, she'd thrash herself with a brush or a curling iron and told him she'd tell the cops he'd hit her. He's now terrified of her and doesn't sleep at night in fear she will kill him and then herself. Their AOS interview is in one month, and he's terribly torn as to what his options are, because he has a great job in America and likes living there, but because his schooling is finished, she's the only thing keeping him legal, so he has said.

What kind of advice should I give him? I personally told him I think he should swallow his pride and come home to Morocco, maybe use his degree to go to Europe. But he wants to stay in America. What can he do?

tell him to read up on borderline personality disorder and learn what he is up against.

the best way to deal with a borderline that you can't walk away from is to be the perfect husband, and never allow yourself to be provoked.

it drives them crazy because provoking you into expressing their anger is what they want most. if he does this she'll leave on her own within a few years.

[sachinky 464]

Unless his wife co-operates with him during the AOS process and interview, he has no option but to return to Morocco. She will need to sign the I-864.

Or he could see if his employers would sponsor him for a H-1B.

[gina_raluca 14]

tell him to read up on borderline personality disorder and learn what he is up against.

the best way to deal with a borderline that you can't walk away from is to be the perfect husband, and never allow yourself to be provoked.

it drives them crazy because provoking you into expressing their anger is what they want most. if he does this she'll leave on her own within a few years.

you can't possibly diagnose borderline personality disorder from the OP's blurb. the self-injurious behaviors and hospitalizations may be related to bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, some other personality disorder, schizophrenic disorders, etc. and it's incredible that you've simplified BPD to a desire to provoke significant others. individuals with BPD display emotional lability, self-injurious behaviors, cycles of idealization and vilification of significant others, and other symptoms - all of these are genuine and they are not used to provoke someone/elicit anger. they stem from an insecure attachment style. individuals with BDP usually have previous histories of horrendous trauma, generally of a sexual nature.

OP: sorry about your friend's situation. you might suggest to him to he talk to his wife about her entering treatment. proper medication and psychotherapy could help her manage her symptoms.

Edited June 22, 2010 by gina_raluca

[KittyPollitt 284]

you can't possibly diagnose borderline personality disorder from the OP's blurb. the self-injurious behaviors and hospitalizations may be related to bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, some other personality disorder, schizophrenic disorders, etc. and it's incredible that you've simplified BPD to a desire to provoke significant others. individuals with BPD display emotional lability, self-injurious behaviors, cycles of idealization and vilification of significant others, and other symptoms - all of these are genuine and they are not used to provoke someone/elicit anger. they stem from an insecure attachment style. individuals with BDP usually have previous histories of horrendous trauma, generally of a sexual nature.

OP: sorry about your friend's situation. you might suggest to him to he talk to his wife about her entering treatment. proper medication and psychotherapy could help her manage her symptoms.

Thank you so much for the advice, gina-raluca... I wasn't going to feed the troll...ppl like him live for reactions.. so sad..

[justashooter 430]

you can't possibly diagnose borderline personality disorder from the OP's blurb. the self-injurious behaviors and hospitalizations may be related to bipolar disorder, major depressive disorder, some other personality disorder, schizophrenic disorders, etc. and it's incredible that you've simplified BPD to a desire to provoke significant others. individuals with BPD display emotional lability, self-injurious behaviors, cycles of idealization and vilification of significant others, and other symptoms - all of these are genuine and they are not used to provoke someone/elicit anger. they stem from an insecure attachment style. individuals with BDP usually have previous histories of horrendous trauma, generally of a sexual nature.

you have a pretty good understanding of BPD, but it is incomplete. lemme guess. you've never been married to an individual with BPD? you're at a masters level or lower? not a psyd, phd psych, or md psych?

bi-polar is out, though it is the favoured diagnosis for BPD people to claim, as it is an illness, rather than a disorder. trouble is, bi-polar generally does not involve violence. it is breif periods (3-10 days) of euphoria and high energy levels followed by longer lasting periods (2-4 weeks) of depression. swings take weeks, not hours, to occur.

major depression is out. depression does not involve projective violence, though it may end in effective suicide when an individual is coming out of an episode (often provoked by mood elevating medication). depression is for long periods, with very slow swings. dysthimia is a milder version, but with similar characteristics.

schizophrenia is not often seen at this age. it also does not involve targeted, rationalised violence. in schizo, violence is random, and not relationship dependent.

BPD is the kiss of death diagnosis. nobody wants to get it because BPD is no longer a major mental illness. it is now classified as a personality disorder. this means that the person who displays 6 or more of the 8 diagnostic criteria given in DSMIV is individually responsible at a conscious level for correcting the disorder, whether they can see it at a conscious level by now, or not. in this generation, personal responsibility is the last thing people want to be confronted with. as "professional victims" BPD people are teflon. nothing sticks to them.

let's look at it cynically, just on basis of what we have been told:

beautiful girl (works to make it that way. identity issues)

quick to marry (impulsive behaviour, shining knight, limited sexual restraint, etc)

18 or above (usually before 25)

history of commitable behaviour, but no medication routine (not a major mental illness)

violent behaviour to someone just recently in love with (black/white concepts)

cutting (favoured self injury, as no long term damage, but lots of drama)

violence that can be blamed on the partner (manipulation and projective behaviour)

violence provoked by threat of abandonment (the greatest fear, as BPD is often rooted in trust object abandonment between ages of 2 and 6)

no job, maybe not finished school (trouble with long term commitments)

i got 9 that look good to me by reading the first post.

[gina_raluca 14]

Nope. I actually got more than a Masters degree. I immigrated into the US based on my degree. The one thing that you should know about personality disorders it that you need to take thorough family and relationship histories (in addition to other things). This is not possible in a treatment session and usually requires several sessions. Plus, you want to look at a full disorder diagnosis vs. traits or features. And most importantly, you want to look at how the person relates to you. As such, diagnosing someone based on a brief description is unethical, unprofessional, and most likely inaccurate.

In terms of the other diagnoses, you made some mistakes, but we can continue the discussion through PM if interested. There is a huge difference between the DSM criteria and how pathology actually presents in clinical practice.

Edited June 22, 2010 by gina_raluca

[justashooter 430]

Nope. I actually got more than a Masters degree. I immigrated into the US based on my degree. The one thing that you should know about personality disorders it that you need to take thorough family and relationship histories (in addition to other things). This is not possible in a treatment session and usually requires several sessions. Plus, you want to look at a full disorder diagnosis vs. traits or features. And most importantly, you want to look at how the person relates to you. As such, diagnosing someone based on a brief description is unethical, unprofessional, and most likely inaccurate.

In terms of the other diagnoses, you made some mistakes, but we can continue the discussion through PM if interested. There is a huge difference between the DSM criteria and how pathology actually presents in clinical practice.

you sound like a person with a lot of formal education, and not much real world experience.

i am aware of everything you have said that is relevant to BPD, and then some. how the person relates to the clinician is of little value in most cases unless the borderline is primitive (though at her age you would expect her to be, despite her volume and duration of enacted behaviours). a history of behaviour in intimate relationships is king, and everythign else is window dressing. ethics in practice are irrelevant in this case. i am not treating the girl. i am advising the husband outside of a clinical setting, on a personal basis.

god help any borderline you enable.

as for psycho-pathology, presentation is widely varied, but a diagnosis is required for billing purposes, so the one that fits best is always used. got the tee shirt.

[KittyPollitt 284]

Wow, I didn't expect this thread to turn into a discussion on psychiatric diagnosis.. Incidentally, I was diagnosed as BPD at age 22, and I've been through a few episodes myself before I found a treatment plan that worked for me (unfortunately, what has worked for me involved 4 years in a closed environment, and this girl would have to do something very drastic to end up in a place like where I was.) While all this talk and online diagnosing is absolutely fascinating to me, I was asking for advice on what his immigration and legal options are- the girl has been in and out of psychiatric institutions and that hasn't seemed to remedy his situation. One question he asked is, if he collects evidence of his marital problems (police reports, video evidence of abuse and unstable behavior, records of psychiatric commitment), and divorces her before he has to remove conditions, does he have a chance of being approved?

Thanks for the info-

Sarah

Edited June 22, 2010 by squeaky580

[sachinky 464]

According to your OP, he's up for his AOS interview. He doesn't have a GC yet -- therefore, he can't remove conditions on it.

ROC comes two years later and results in the 10 year GC.

How long have they been married?

Like I said, there's no way to adjust his status without the co-operation of his wife.

If his marriage and studies are over, maybe he should contemplate returning to Morocco. Or see if his employers will be willing to sponsor a H-1B. Most are not.

Edited June 22, 2010 by sachinky

[gina_raluca 14]

Wow, I didn't expect this thread to turn into a discussion on psychiatric diagnosis.. Incidentally, I was diagnosed as BPD at age 22, and I've been through a few episodes myself before I found a treatment plan that worked for me (unfortunately, what has worked for me involved 4 years in a closed environment, and this girl would have to do something very drastic to end up in a place like where I was.) While all this talk and online diagnosing is absolutely fascinating to me, I was asking for advice on what his immigration and legal options are- the girl has been in and out of psychiatric institutions and that hasn't seemed to remedy his situation. One question he asked is, if he collects evidence of his marital problems (police reports, video evidence of abuse and unstable behavior, records of psychiatric commitment), and divorces her before he has to remove conditions, does he have a chance of being approved?

Thanks for the info-

Sarah

I'm sorry that this has turned into a discussion about diagnoses. Your friend does not seem interested in actually understanding what is happening, which is absolutely his right. I hope others will be able to advise you on what avenues are available to him for ROC.

Justashooter, my credentials are not relevant. I prefer to display them where it actually matters. I did not diagnose anyone and will never venture to this online. Whatever your background, diagnosing a psychological condition online is unethical. Imagine if the husband actually goes home and tells the wife that she has BPD; this is only going to make her feel more insecure and possibly trigger her. You don't know how someone is going to react when they hear about BPD, especially given the bad rep this diagnosis has (even among professionals). If you really wanted to help, you could have given advice on how he could respond to the emotional instability. You could have encouraged the husband to have her see a psychologist/psychiatrist. This is what someone who abides by the "do not harm" rule does.

Edited June 22, 2010 by gina_raluca

[KittyPollitt 284]

According to your OP, he's up for his AOS interview. He doesn't have a GC yet -- therefore, he can't remove conditions on it.

ROC comes two years later and results in the 10 year GC.

How long have they been married?

Like I said, there's no way to adjust his status without the co-operation of his wife.

If his marriage and studies are over, maybe he should contemplate returning to Morocco. Or see if his employers will be willing to sponsor a H-1B. Most are not.

They've been married for a year 1/2.. As it is now, she is cooperating, he's kinda wondering if he has to stick it out the entire two years- if they would fault him for leaving her before that time is over, if he can't stand to continue it any longer. He did enter the marriage in good faith and with the best of intentions, but things have turned south since.. He wants to try to work it out and get her help, but he's kinda worried that if he ends up having to leave her before the 2 year mark, that he'd have to leave the US too..

Thanks for your help

[Jscoope 0]

By the sounds of things the AOS interview is before their 2 year anniversary. That means if he is approved it will be before the 2 year anniversary, which means he will receive a 2 year conditional green card. He isn't elligible to remove those conditions until 2 years from the date he receives the green card. Not 2 years of marriage. I was confused about that as well. I have just been approved for my green card after 9 months of marriage, I thought I had to apply for the conditions to be removed within 90 days of our 2nd wedding anniversary but apparently its within 90 days of the 2 year card expiring.

[sachinky 464]

Look, I don't know what to tell you.

If his marriage is over, it's over. He shouldn't be 'faking it' for the sake of immigration benefits.

Since he's been married for 1.5 years, he will only receive a condition 2 year GC. He will have to remove conditions after another 2 years.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

If he can document the abuse he is received at her hands then he can file for AOS under VAWA. He needs to document the abuse though.

If he is trying to make it work and she does cooperate with the AOS so he gets his greencard and the situation fails to improve he can divorce before the 2 year ROC deadline and file on his own with the divorce waiver.