Disgusting. Obama Officially Using BP Oil Spill As The Catalyst To Shove Cap & Trade Down Our Throats

[HappyKnappy 30]

Higher octane doesn't improve gas mileage. I wouldn't be putting it in anything that doesn't specifically call for it.

Yup, the octane rating only means that it ignites better in a controlled way, rather than exploding. In reality, it is very likely that it will burn a lot faster if it has a higher rating.

[Heracles 417]

To break the dependence we need to change the way yanks thinks. Rail is the most efficient transportation medium yet the least used in the US. Try catching a passenger train to travel interstate or even within a state and there is only Amtrack; which runs limited services a limited times per day or week and is somehow more expensive than flying.

The Gasoline tax needs to start reflecting the true cost; which should factor oil spills off the coast and the price to fix up the shitty roads. Therefore, adding a $1.5 per gallon tax will more than make up for this true cost.

[Heracles 417]

Yup, the octane rating only means that it ignites better in a controlled way, rather than exploding. In reality, it is very likely that it will burn a lot faster if it has a higher rating.

Actually it means it's more powerful and better refined - higher BTU / MJ. Hence, why it's available in most other first world countries.

[HappyKnappy 30]

To break the dependence we need to change the way yanks thinks.

Watch it, you are attempting against Liberty, sir.

[Peikko 1,575]

i'm guessing based on the subsidies given to offset the costs + the amount of foriegn oil we buy. it sure isn't $5

the produce you buy at the grocery store that isn't locally grown, & is most likely imported. again, good luck trucking it in from port of entry or rail yard using a hybrid or natural gas vehicle. there isn't enough fuel efficent trucks out there yet.

bottom line until we have affordable means to operate w/o oil we are not going to break our dependence. it will take time to get there & doubling to tripling the cost of things we all need & want immediately to fund program to push something that won't happen for 20-40 years is not the way to go.

Bottom line, we need to rethink our definitions as to what is and isn't acceptable taking into account all the things we now understand about the true cost of the things we consume. Transporting produce from exotic locations when it can be produced by local growers is neither essential nor bottom line cost effective now we know that oil is a finite resource.

Of course there will always be a need to bring things in that are not available locally, but that's the point, we do not need to transport many of the things that we do transport currently - it's a wasteful system and being wasteful is 21st century man's biggest vice - curb that vice and there will be plenty of fuel for years to come.

[Obama 2012 1,714]

As if motorists don't act that way...

Sorry for attacking your logic, but you are attacking the President's proposal to go green and at the same time want the bike riders to pay for the 2-3 ft paths. Doesn't make sense.

Attacking Liberty? Wow...

"But he did it first" --- your logic fails. Don't attack mine if yours fails.

his "proposal to go green" is a TAX and nothing more. It's literally a tax on everything... I've explained that we need to create incentives, not punish for using what works now.

It makes perfect sense to pay for what you use... Drivers pay license fees/gas taxes/tolls to pay for roads, therefore bikes should have to register and pay fees to pay for their space on the road as well. It's simple really.

[Heracles 417]

The developed world is also now heavily into diesel cars that achieve fuel efficiencies greater than hybrids, yet for some reason not in the US.

[HappyKnappy 30]

Actually it means it's more powerful and better refined - higher BTU / MJ. Hence, why it's available in most other first world countries.

Yeah, controlled being the key word in my statement. Any organic chemistry book will tell you that, my engineer friend.

[Heracles 417]

"But he did it first" --- your logic fails. Don't attack mine if yours fails.

his "proposal to go green" is a TAX and nothing more. It's literally a tax on everything... I've explained that we need to create incentives, not punish for using what works now.

It makes perfect sense to pay for what you use... Drivers pay license fees/gas taxes/tolls to pay for roads, therefore bikes should have to register and pay fees to pay for their space on the road as well. It's simple really.

Bikes don't wear out the road. What's a bloody joke with the tax here is that a small cars pays the same tax as a F250 or F350 on the road. Which wears out the road and pollutes the air we breathe more?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Bottom line, we need to rethink our definitions as to what is and isn't acceptable taking into account all the things we now understand about the true cost of the things we consume. Transporting produce from exotic locations when it can be produced by local growers is neither essential nor bottom line cost effective now we know that oil is a finite resource.

Of course there will always be a need to bring things in that are not available locally, but that's the point, we do not need to transport many of the things that we do transport currently - it's a wasteful system and being wasteful is 21st century man's biggest vice - curb that vice and there will be plenty of fuel for years to come.

Love or hate Wal-Mart but they usually buy their produce local (one of their good points) and a few other stores do too. It only makes more sense.

Also with all the farmers markets out there now days, why would you even bother with a grocery store.

The only time you really need to bring things in, is during the winter. In which we import a lot of produce from South America...

[Heracles 417]

Yeah, controlled being the key word in my statement. Any organic chemistry book will tell you that, my engineer friend.

In other words Mexico has lower octane fuel.

[HappyKnappy 30]

"But he did it first" --- your logic fails. Don't attack mine if yours fails.

his "proposal to go green" is a TAX and nothing more. It's literally a tax on everything... I've explained that we need to create incentives, not punish for using what works now.

It makes perfect sense to pay for what you use... Drivers pay license fees/gas taxes/tolls to pay for roads, therefore bikes should have to register and pay fees to pay for their space on the road as well. It's simple really.

If you contradict yourself, obvious FAIL.

Anyway, when more people start using bikes in similar numbers than cars, then complain about it.

[Peikko 1,575]

"But he did it first" --- your logic fails. Don't attack mine if yours fails.

his "proposal to go green" is a TAX and nothing more. It's literally a tax on everything... I've explained that we need to create incentives, not punish for using what works now.

It makes perfect sense to pay for what you use... Drivers pay license fees/gas taxes/tolls to pay for roads, therefore bikes should have to register and pay fees to pay for their space on the road as well. It's simple really.

These fees would not be cost effective to administer - the cost of bikes using current transport systems is negligible - unless you want to introduce a punitive tax on bike riders, do you?

[Obama 2012 1,714]

Bikes don't wear out the road. What's a bloody joke with the tax here is that a small cars pays the same tax as a F250 or F350 on the road. Which wears out the road and pollutes the air we breathe more?

The hot and cold expansion/compression through the seasons and then the Semi trucks driving over it

These fees would not be cost effective to administer - the cost of bikes using current transport systems is negligible - unless you want to introduce a punitive tax on bike riders, do you?

Yes.

If you're expanding roads and creating bike paths on the roads, then the bike riders need to pay for it.

Everyone's willing to come up with ideas, start news things, but no one is willing to pay for what they want. They always expect someone else to foot the bill.

[HappyKnappy 30]

In other words Mexico has lower octane fuel.

What the hell does that have to do with anything???? You said I was wrong, and proceeded to go on about first world fuels. That chemist that wrote the book I read a while ago (and I used to define octane rating) must be an idiot... No, not a Mexican author either.