Benefits of Becoming a USC

[person 0]

I am curious, why are people going through this process because it seems that LPR is just as fine too.. Can I go live in my home country or somewhere in Europe once I receive USC citizenship? I am guessing the LPR will eventually expire, so maybe becoming USC is worth while just for ease of travel and if I want to return here to visit..

[v333k 59]

I am curious, why are people going through this process because it seems that LPR is just as fine too.. Can I go live in my home country or somewhere in Europe once I receive USC citizenship? I am guessing the LPR will eventually expire, so maybe becoming USC is worth while just for ease of travel and if I want to return here to visit..

Hi (again )

As a US citizen, you can live in your home country, or any other country without the need to come back to the US as long as you wish and as long as you are allowed (by other countries). LPRs need to come back to the US continuously and I think the longest stay outside the US is 6 months at a time. This is the first apparent difference in direct relation to your question.

[Otto 83]

I think that by using abbreviations so much, we tend to lose sight of what an LPR is (a lawful permanent resident). Permanent residency can be lost/abandoned if you're no longer - a permanent resident.

[Captain Oates 910]

It's a subject I am tormented by too ! I think I will be applying for naturalization in August but my mind isn't totally settled.

I list the following advantages:(from my perspective only)

A You can come and go to any country for however long and just walk back into the US by showing your passport

B If you are ex UK, it helps shake off the tax people there as they try to claim you are domiciled in the UK for inheritance tax. US inheritance tax is usually zero and will save my hangers on a lot of money

C You can get at your USC spouses social security etc and there are various tax advantages in the US which are denied LPR's... bit obscure and can't be bothered looking em up - but they exist

D Some States have prohibitions on LPR's owning guns (I shoot paper targets and always have)

ok Disadvantages (from my perspective only)

A You are eligible for jury service - I see that as a disadvantage and stuff the civic duty

B The IRS will follow you forever to make you do tax returns - people say oh there is a big exemption for foreign earned income - but I have bank interest, pensions, capital gains - no exemption for them - just Double Tax Relief , paying at the higher rate and having disallowed/carry forward etc and I will have to do tax returns ever year and buy turbo tax when I am 92

C Getting rid of the nationality means going to London (for me) and swearing xyz). I will be able to visit the USA after on visa waiver though

Summary

I totally discount the rah rah I am a citizen of the finest country in the whole of the world in the whole of history - I don't buy all that stuff at all. My personal culture is English and always will be. Most Americans couldn't possibly envisage (envision) giving up this wonderful God given opportunity but I see the US as just another country and nothing holy or mystical

I am in the US and staying because:

A My wife is a USC and couldn't exist in the real world (naughty boy)

B It rains a lot less than the UK - I mean the sun shines more.

C Stuff is cheaper

D I can afford a big car and not sit in traffic jams and there are no speed cameras

E If you live in a no income tax state like me, you can get your effective rate down to 10 to 12 percent

F There are less foreigners here than in the UK (tongue in cheek remark)

I think on balance I will apply for citizenship - the Americans will be ok with that because although my motives are selfish and not civic minded, I am pouring all my wordwide wealth and 3 pensions into this country, paying all my tax and obeying all laws. I am retired so taking nobody's job - giving jobs instead.Oh and being a wonderful husband to one of their citizens (joke)

Seriously now, if it all goes wrong and I end up back in the UK on my botty, getting rid of the citizenship is a day out at the embassy in London - do some shopping, river cruise - so it's not like a tattoo. The IRS only follows you for years if you admit to having millions in the bank.

Jobs a good 'un

Edited April 28, 2010 by saywhat

[jpaula 20]

LPRs have fewer constitutional rights than citizens.

[Captain Oates 910]

LPRs have fewer constitutional rights than citizens.

Not what the 14th amendment says - it says anyone here is equal. Citizen/non citizen. Thats how washington gun laws prohibiting LPR's were overturned last year.

[NickD 202]

Meeting a woman that I felt I could be happy with the rest of my wife was never a goal, it was more of a wild wish. In my job, if I limited my search for materials to my home town, would have been out of business a long time ago, and with a global economy, the whole world was open to me. Sure it would have been nice to find that material in my home town, but it doesn't work that way.

It was never my goal to find a woman from a different country, but it was magic from the very first moment we met and still is. The only thing we knew for sure, is we wanted to be together, was too painful for both of us to be apart. Even to the point where you can wish you never met in the first place. The key issue was not bringing her here, or me going there, the key issue was being together. After some discussion we decided to stay here.

In marrying her, I inherited a terrible "mother-in-law, not my wife's mom, she is one of the sweetest woman I have ever met, but the USCIS. Suddenly, I was treated like a crook. It was my main objective to make my new wife and daughter feel very comfortable in my home, no longer my home, but their home as well. The first year of our marriage, we traveled a lot to see the beauty of their new home and can't knock that, this is a very beautiful country.

USCIS has some strange idea that the reason why a person comes here is to pay taxes and die for this country, hell, its not even their home yet, they sure in the hell don't make an immigrant feel welcome here, but also treat them like crooks. We try to overlook that and look at the beauty of this country. One thing you have to realize, is that you can't come here without leaving something, like your family, your friends, you culture, and just about everything else you grew up with. But to ease this pain, and that pain is there, this has got to be your new home, and you have to like it, enough to ease of the pain of the life that you left.

We didn't make our first visit to the USCIS because we wanted to rob them or blow them up to pieces, we went because our laws demanded that we visit them. But only to meet a bunch of paranoid arm guards like we came into blow them up and bunch of paranoid people that we committed fraud to come here. I felt equally as bad, as this is suppose to be my country, a country that I served honorarily and was expected to die for, but suddenly I was a crook. No one said welcome to my new wife or daughter, but they were both examined both mentally, morally, and physically. Was like meeting a whole new bunch of people whose feces did not stink.

We did have goals in our marriage, to help, love, and serve each other, but then we found we had a new goal in life and that was to get the USCIS out of it. One way to do this was to get USC for them. My wife and daughter have made many new friends here, the good and great common people of this country and have found many new beautiful places they want to constantly revisit. This took time, and this is their home now. It was touching that just once they treated my wife with respect, on her oath day, finally welcome to the USA.

Heard on the radio the other day that 80% of Americans do not trust our government. Seems fair enough, as our government sure in the hell doesn't trust us either. How did we get this way, and the big question is, what are we going to do about it?

My two biggest disappointments with immigration are, after all we went through with the AOS, wife and daughter only got a conditional card with hell to pay to get their ten year card. The latest is they still need to maintain a foreign passport to visit their country. Removal of conditions is history, this passport issue is not. Feel if we want to fight for freedom, really don't have to be sent to a foreign country to do so, that fight starts right here. And exactly who is the enemy?

Normally we don't have goals

[Captain Oates 910]

A lot to sympathize with there Nick. I didn't have residence in the US as a goal. In fact I persuaded my USC wife to go and live in England. It was the wettest summer since the ice age (2007) and the only place she could get a job was Lancashire which is the pits and a very wet gloomy horrible place. She wasn't doing well with it so we moved to Florida. She tried to get a job for 6 months and eventually here we are in a desert in Washington State where she has the best job she has ever had (her words). I was an alien with no rights to pursue my hobby of target shooting. Luckily the NRA (who I would support if they weren't so right wing), brought a case against Washington State and said LPR's and Citizens are equal under the 14th amendment and can't be discriminated against under the constitution. The law was dropped and I spend 2 days a week at the range (I am retired).

I carry my green card at all times because the USCIS enforcement people practice killing people at the range most days and I rub shoulders with them.

I am in a very conservative part of the State - I am the only one in the club without a blood soaked pick up truck. As long as I don't engage in religion or politics, my friends are charming people and great friends.

But yes we walk a tightrope as far as the law is concerned. Imagine I went through a red light and a family were killed because of my mistake. I could find my myself separated from my whole life by being deported. I am not bothered about being separated from the USA, but I am bothered about being separated from my whole life and landing back in Leeds with nothing and nobody.

It's a remote possibility, but at least getting naturalization will remove that possibility.

Also, the fear and despair when the 10 year green card comes up for renewal is avoided - we know what can go wrong. I had everything go wrong in my process - right up to the last day when I was at the counter inside the US embassy in London and the guy said 'You don't have an appointment, how did you get in here - how did you get past security'.

I walked out approved for a 10 year unconditional green card on that day, but it was typical of what I went through all the way through

Yes I have to get rid of the USCIS - I will apply for naturalization in August. Decision made.

...and if it all goes wrong for me and my wife runs off with Jose the gardener, I will return to the UK and go to London and renounce it.

[Indy90 21]

I am curious, why are people going through this process because it seems that LPR is just as fine too.. Can I go live in my home country or somewhere in Europe once I receive USC citizenship? I am guessing the LPR will eventually expire, so maybe becoming USC is worth while just for ease of travel and if I want to return here to visit..

For me and my wife, one factor is the fact that she will be able to receive an American passport. This will make international travel much easier for me and my wife.

Another factor is that it simply is a demonstration that she wants to further integrate herself into the US. She will not have to lose her Ecuadorian citizenship, so she won't feel like she is losing an important part of herself. Finally, renewing her green card would be annoying every ten years.

[NickD 202]

One way to get a gun, and even learn how to use it and kill people with it as a LPR, is to be between the age of 18 and 25, or even 35, and have the draft reinstated. Male LPR's in this age group are expected to register for selective service and can be in big trouble with the USCIS if they don't.

Of course, lawful permanent resident gives new meaning to the word "permanent", 2 or 10 years is hardly the definition of permanent. I have no experience with what one has to go through to get that second ten year card or even what form to use. If anything like what we went through to get that first ten year card, would be far better to apply for USC.

My wife always felt like an outsider here until she received her certificate, she wanted it, she wants to stay here, and be a part of this country. But still feels like an outsider when she has to renew her foreign passport so she can visit her mom. Still not quite like being a natural born citizen.

A LPR can purchase a home and get royally creamed in property tax, but has no say at the polls to how it will be wasted, that doesn't seem fair either.

LOL, whether a natural born citizen or a LPR, still not a good idea to discuss politics or religion with friends.

Sounds like you are on the east side of Washington state.

[Darnell 8,478]

I think it's great when a new citizen can run for public office !

[Captain Oates 910]

One way to get a gun, and even learn how to use it and kill people with it as a LPR, is to be between the age of 18 and 25, or even 35, and have the draft reinstated. Male LPR's in this age group are expected to register for selective service and can be in big trouble with the USCIS if they don't.

Of course, lawful permanent resident gives new meaning to the word "permanent", 2 or 10 years is hardly the definition of permanent. I have no experience with what one has to go through to get that second ten year card or even what form to use. If anything like what we went through to get that first ten year card, would be far better to apply for USC.

My wife always felt like an outsider here until she received her certificate, she wanted it, she wants to stay here, and be a part of this country. But still feels like an outsider when she has to renew her foreign passport so she can visit her mom. Still not quite like being a natural born citizen.

A LPR can purchase a home and get royally creamed in property tax, but has no say at the polls to how it will be wasted, that doesn't seem fair either.

LOL, whether a natural born citizen or a LPR, still not a good idea to discuss politics or religion with friends.

Sounds like you are on the east side of Washington state.

Hi Nick

Yes I am on the east side of the Cascades - 8" rain per annum - 300 days sun - but only 200 yards from the mountains so i can be in Seattle in 2 hours. I have a love /horror relationship with the USA at the mo. I can't see any European not being taken aback by Pat Robertson and people killing abortion doctors etc etc so it's hard to adjust for a 'thinking person'. Been here since November 2007 so I am able to handle anything now. I go back to England every 3 or 4 months but I think I will not bother much through the winter in future. I have expert marksman badges going back to 1967 but don't tell the army or they might recruit me into the gimmer sniper squad so I can kill people in...where's next ? I forget.

I think the tax thing worried me as if I do go back to the elephant's grave yard to die, I imagined trying to do turbo tax at 93 years old. I have my head round it now and if I did go back permanently, I would renounce USC

I will have 5 years residency at 65 so I can buy into Medicare. Its about $6,600 pa !! and my wife is younger than me so I can't get in on her coat tails. If I never did qualify through her, I would be paying at least that forever from my pension. $200k if I am unlucky enough to live to a ripe age. That sort of stuff would see me shipping out.

But nothing like that is irreparable or undoable so its USC for me this year.

[Captain Oates 910]

I think it's great when a new citizen can run for public office !

But not President.

There are 2 classes of USC - ask Arnold ! Actually top level security clearance requires natural born too - I don't know how that worked for Kissinger or Madeleine Albright - but I do believe it's so.

[jpaula 20]

Not what the 14th amendment says - it says anyone here is equal. Citizen/non citizen. Thats how washington gun laws prohibiting LPR's were overturned last year.

I think you are referring to the Equal Protection Clause. This does guarantee equal protection (from the states), but not full constitutional rights, to LPRs and anyone else in their jurisdiction. There are many rights reserved only for citizens, the most obvious being the right to vote which, in a system of representative government, is pretty important. Contradicting a strongly held principle of American government and one of our founding myths, you are taxed w/o representation.

I think the most obvious example of how differently the two groups are treated is that LPRs who commit a crime are deportable. I would assume this will not be a problem for anyone here, but it does show that no matter how long you have been a legal resident your continued residency remains a privilege and not a right.

Another benefit of US citizenship for those from non VWP countries is that visa requirements for other countries follow citizenship rather than residency. So, my spouse, pre-citizenship, required a visa to travel to most countries (Mexico and Canada are exceptions as they let you in with a Green Card).

The downsides to citizenship as far as I can see are the double taxation issue if you live outside the US and make enough money to fall into that category, the possibility of being drafted if the draft is ever reinstated, and laws in some countries that forbid dual citizenship, making you choose. Then again, I know plenty of people, all European, who have lived most of their adult lives here with a Green Card and, voting aside, are no different than citizens.

My guess is that this discussion is very different depending on where one is from. If you hold citizenship from a country that affords you few rights, those granted to residents here may not be enough to make you feel secure.

[Captain Oates 910]

My guess is that this discussion is very different depending on where one is from. If you hold citizenship from a country that affords you few rights, those granted to residents here may not be enough to make you feel secure.

That is very important.

I see posts by people thinking that just being a LPR is like going to heaven and they drool and wax lyrical about the U.S. and fall on the floor and kiss the ground and weep with gratitude more than any citizen could (and that's a lot)

Actually, if I came from one of those countries I would bust a gut getting full citizenship as the horror of being deported back there would spur me on.

Most Europeans who were subjected to a year in a U.S. prison would be more than happy to be deported I reckon and they would never leave their home country again - so freedom from deportation after prison for those folks isn't a big plus practically speaking. But US laws are weird and wonderful and many and multiplied by all the States. It's possible to be an ok person and still get into big trouble. The US has 2 million people behind bars - the UK a mere 70k and they are top of the European league - so it's really easy to get in the clink

I have a friend who has been here 15 years as an LPR and when I ask him about citizenship he says 'I am British and nothing else'.

Fair enough, but he is here for life I reckon as he has a USC wife and a daughter and grand children here and for practical purposes he needs to get USC just in case. He is probably thinking about being hooked for life by the IRS, but its simple to renounce citizenship - actually I think it's free and not many USCIS benefits are.

So I don't see it as serious and hard to get out of as getting married or having a sex change or a tattoo

So no worries so long as you have $675 spare and a couple of days to take off work and you don't mind being photographed waving a little flag

These discussions are very interesting and valuable but the official websites list advantages like 'being able to vote' and 'being able to serve on a jury' which are all very high minded - but I think having more selfish reasons as well is important - as is the assurance of an escape method if it all goes wrong - so that one can do it with a relaxed mind.