help for my friend please

[DeniseBill 4]

I don't really know how it works in the Phillipines but I remember a story of a couple of years ago where a dutch woman decided she didn't wanted to be with her husband anymore and took her 3 year old baby with her back to Holland. About 4 months later some people came to Holland to pick up the child and bring it back to the US. The mother lost all the legal rights of her child in the US for kidnapping and now 2 years later she is still trying to get her son back. She had full custody in Holland.

Don't do anything stupid or illegal would be my advice. Get a lawyer

Edited January 19, 2010 by DeniseBill

[leith@Ievgeniia 8]

amtrak goes from atlanta to washington dc every day. i forget the number but the train is called the Cressent.

actually a nice ride. and amtak is cheep for such purpose

[mrs. wife! 3]

I don't really know how it works in the Phillipines but I remember a story of a couple of years ago where a dutch woman decided she didn't wanted to be with her husband anymore and took her 3 year old baby with her back to Holland. About 4 months later some people came to Holland to pick up the child and bring it back to the US. The mother lost all the legal rights of her child in the US for kidnapping and now 2 years later she is still trying to get her son back. She had full custody in Holland.

Don't do anything stupid or illegal would be my advice. Get a lawyer

In Brazil too, never heard about "Bring Sean Home"?

How about Elian's case? The Cuban little boy? Just google it and you'll understand how serious this is.

It's crime to leave the country without mother/father's consent. Do not do that! Seek legal advice!

Hope everything works out for the OP's friend.

Good luck!

[leith@Ievgeniia 8]

one thing we do not know is and this is very importnat! is he listed as the child's father? on birth cirteificate. if the man is not listed he would have to do so much to prove it is his child. and she could leave. with no ceritficate to show he is father that is.

if his is listed as father, she can take some photos while is stoned, and using drugs and do not tell or share the pics, and then call police, and go to shleter, contact phill consulate and ask for advice, and go from there.

this is not easy process and yes international child abduction could be used if she just leave and he is legeally father and named at time of birth on certificate.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

one thing we do not know is and this is very importnat! is he listed as the child's father? on birth cirteificate. if the man is not listed he would have to do so much to prove it is his child. and she could leave. with no ceritficate to show he is father that is.

if his is listed as father, she can take some photos while is stoned, and using drugs and do not tell or share the pics, and then call police, and go to shleter, contact phill consulate and ask for advice, and go from there.

this is not easy process and yes international child abduction could be used if she just leave and he is legeally father and named at time of birth on certificate.

Read the first post. The child has a US passport by virtue of having an approved CRBA. The US government is already satisfied that the child is his or they never would have approved the CRBA and issued the passport. It no longer makes any difference at all whether his name is on the birth certificate. He is the biological father, according to the US government.

His using drugs does not, by itself, constitute abuse. Even if she managed to get him arrested for drugs, unless the police report also contains evidence of abuse then it's useless for a VAWA claim. She's already told the OP that he does not abuse her. Why would you suggest she make a false claim of abuse against him?

[bluemist 0]

Thanks to all of you who replied.I didn't know that I will get answers from my post for her.I will tell her all the advices you have given here.

Thanks again.

[DEDixon 39]

people saying she needs written consent to take the child who has a RP passport out of the country... tell me, when mothers take their children on vacation back to the RP, do they carry written consent?

if she left the country with the baby, she hasn't done anything wrong until he reports it. once reported, then the story unfolds and it doesn't mean that she'll be charged with kidnapping. the people involved (authorities) would attempt to settle this without a lot of BS first.

she should get on a plane and go then deal with the aftermath, if there is any (he may not report) later.

she just has to be prepared to deal with this later, if he reports it.

[JimVaPhuong 4,863]

people saying she needs written consent to take the child who has a RP passport out of the country... tell me, when mothers take their children on vacation back to the RP, do they carry written consent?

if she left the country with the baby, she hasn't done anything wrong until he reports it. once reported, then the story unfolds and it doesn't mean that she'll be charged with kidnapping. the people involved (authorities) would attempt to settle this without a lot of BS first.

she should get on a plane and go then deal with the aftermath, if there is any (he may not report) later.

she just has to be prepared to deal with this later, if he reports it.

Generally speaking, the Department of State will not stop a US citizen from leaving the United States, even if the US citizen is a child. However, many countries will not permit a child to enter the country if the child is traveling with only one parent unless they also have a letter of authorization from the second parent. Many carriers (airlines) will not issue a boarding pass without an authorization letter, especially if they know that the child will not be permitted to enter the destination country without it.

Since the child also has a passport from the Philippines, it's certainly possible that she'll be able to take the child back to the RP, and not get any trouble from the airline or the customs officials in the RP.

Of course, it doesn't mean she'll be charged with kidnapping. I don't think anybody said it was a certainty. What WAS said was that it's POSSIBLE she could be guilty of kidnapping. This particular case is complicated by the fact that the father filed a CRBA for the child. It's obvious he wanted the child to be recognized as a US citizen by virtue of it being his biological child. If she takes the child back to the RP without his permission, he'll have a pretty strong case for parental child abduction.

[DEDixon 39]

Generally speaking, the Department of State will not stop a US citizen from leaving the United States, even if the US citizen is a child. However, many countries will not permit a child to enter the country if the child is traveling with only one parent unless they also have a letter of authorization from the second parent. Many carriers (airlines) will not issue a boarding pass without an authorization letter, especially if they know that the child will not be permitted to enter the destination country without it.

Since the child also has a passport from the Philippines, it's certainly possible that she'll be able to take the child back to the RP, and not get any trouble from the airline or the customs officials in the RP.

Of course, it doesn't mean she'll be charged with kidnapping. I don't think anybody said it was a certainty. What WAS said was that it's POSSIBLE she could be guilty of kidnapping. This particular case is complicated by the fact that the father filed a CRBA for the child. It's obvious he wanted the child to be recognized as a US citizen by virtue of it being his biological child. If she takes the child back to the RP without his permission, he'll have a pretty strong case for parental child abduction.

i disagree.

i often think some VJers put fear into people where really there should not be any fear. she could say that she left the US for many reasons. once in the RP, she could also willingly cooperate with him and whatever authorities to set up visitation and child support arrangements. to me, she has no reason to fear leaving the US with her baby and without his permission. since she hasn't been here long, she is likely the primary care giver and so it would only be natural for her to take the child with her.

i also find it hard to believe that the airlines are concerned about abductions on an hour to hour basis... i mean, if they were alerted to someone leaving, they would be concerned (on alert), but without the initial alert, i've never known them to butt into family affairs. airlines have enough to be concerned about, let alone family affairs and if anyone presented a letter of authorization, they wouldn't know if it was forged. again, this is too much for the airlines to worry about.

and for God's sake, as witnessed a month ago, the airlines can't even keep terrorist off planes, let alone a mom and child.

[candelari 0]

i disagree.

i often think some VJers put fear into people where really there should not be any fear. she could say that she left the US for many reasons. once in the RP, she could also willingly cooperate with him and whatever authorities to set up visitation and child support arrangements. to me, she has no reason to fear leaving the US with her baby and without his permission. since she hasn't been here long, she is likely the primary care giver and so it would only be natural for her to take the child with her.

i also find it hard to believe that the airlines are concerned about abductions on an hour to hour basis... i mean, if they were alerted to someone leaving, they would be concerned (on alert), but without the initial alert, i've never known them to butt into family affairs. airlines have enough to be concerned about, let alone family affairs and if anyone presented a letter of authorization, they wouldn't know if it was forged. again, this is too much for the airlines to worry about.

and for God's sake, as witnessed a month ago, the airlines can't even keep terrorist off planes, let alone a mom and child.

I have to agree with that. If they are not married and no custody is decided/pending yet any of them can take the child and go. The other party has to prove that there is uncooperative situation.... Just go home and be with family, I doubt that will cause any problem as long as you keep the dad in the loop and have proof that you are willing to coop with him...

[rheanick 42]

To all who are posting about this topic. Please let's not turn this into a Male, Female thing. I can tell by some of the comments that it is headed that way. We we are trying to help a fellow VJer. It is true in most states a Father has no legal rights until a court rules on a custody matter. He is just merely a sperm donor, but that said I don't study criminal law for nothing. I'm not into to the family law, but I know kidnapping when I see it. I have SOLE custody of my 4-year old, but I still can't remove her from my State without pre-approval from a Judge. Just be careful.

In the PHILIPPINES, the MOTHER has FULL CUSTODY of the CHILD until a certain age... THE MOTHER HAS FULL CUSTODY OF THE BABY, MARRIED OR NOT MARRIED!

She buy a ticket and hop in the plane. He could fight with custody later..

THE WOMAN IS AT A LOSING BATTLE HERE IF SHE OVERSTAY!

While she is still LEGAL... she should do something.

I dont give BS to the drug addict fiance. If you want the girl to grew up with a drug addict man...there is something WRONG here.

[a-star 0]

In the PHILIPPINES, the MOTHER has FULL CUSTODY of the CHILD until a certain age... THE MOTHER HAS FULL CUSTODY OF THE BABY, MARRIED OR NOT MARRIED!

She buy a ticket and hop in the plane. He could fight with custody later..

THE WOMAN IS AT A LOSING BATTLE HERE IF SHE OVERSTAY!

While she is still LEGAL... she should do something.

I dont give BS to the drug addict fiance. If you want the girl to grew up with a drug addict man...there is something WRONG here.

I agree ...

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

I hardly ever step into any conversations in this forum, mostly because the stories told here are often heartbreaking. This, too, is one of those stories. But I cannot stand by while people continue to advocate imprudent and potentially illegal activity. International child abduction is at stake here. The child is a USC, born of a USC father who like it or not has parental rights in the US. That includes the right NOT to have his child removed without his permission from the US. The term "drug addict" keeps getting bandied about as if it is the gospel truth about the father -- all we know is what we have been told, which is that the father is a drug USER. Furthermore, since we have only one side of the story (and that in itself is secondhand) we do not know if that is true. Whoever posted that the mother should plant drug evidence in the attempt to bolster a heretofore non-existent claim of spousal abuse... wow.

What is morally correct and what is legally correct do not always intersect. Just because something seems "right" to you doesn't make it so. The best advice given in this thread so far is this: seek legal counsel. This is an emotionally fraught, legally complex situation. Advice is better sought from a lawyer than your peers. I wish the best for the OP's friend and her child and hope that they can achieve resolution to this tragic state of affairs.

[DEDixon 39]

I hardly ever step into any conversations in this forum, mostly because the stories told here are often heartbreaking. This, too, is one of those stories. But I cannot stand by while people continue to advocate imprudent and potentially illegal activity. International child abduction is at stake here. The child is a USC, born of a USC father who like it or not has parental rights in the US. That includes the right NOT to have his child removed without his permission from the US. The term "drug addict" keeps getting bandied about as if it is the gospel truth about the father -- all we know is what we have been told, which is that the father is a drug USER. Furthermore, since we have only one side of the story (and that in itself is secondhand) we do not know if that is true. Whoever posted that the mother should plant drug evidence in the attempt to bolster a heretofore non-existent claim of spousal abuse... wow.

What is morally correct and what is legally correct do not always intersect. Just because something seems "right" to you doesn't make it so. The best advice given in this thread so far is this: seek legal counsel. This is an emotionally fraught, legally complex situation. Advice is better sought from a lawyer than your peers. I wish the best for the OP's friend and her child and hope that they can achieve resolution to this tragic state of affairs.

it is not at stake as long as she is willing to cooperate later.

she isn't married, she needs to get out of the country on time or else it could affect her in the future. US gov't immigration policy/laws are affecting her and she needs to do what is immediately in her and her child's best interest and then negotiate the long term issues with the father and authorities, if they get involved.

no matter that the story is second hand, we comment based on how it is presented. if they want the best possible answers, it is not in their best interest to post a story that isn't on the mark... if they post a less than honest version of the story, they may as well not post for we would be replying to the wrong situation and what does that do for them?

[elmcitymaven 9,711]

Sorry, it makes no difference if she sorts it out after the fact. It is still abduction. Yes, she has a pressing immigration issue. It does not mean she should ignore the family law aspects of this matter. Get both sorted out ASAP.