Should U.S. Immigration Law Emulate Mexico's?

[TBoneTX 43,079]

I found this article awhile back and was recently reminded of it:

http://www.vdare.com/awall/070516_memo.htm

If we suppress the temptation to reply with any rude or thoughtless statements, we have a chance to learn and discuss some interesting objective information from the article itself and from many (most) of the links therein. For example, click the one called "examine Mexico's immigration policy" near the top (fourth link).

Should the U.S. seek to emulate Mexico's immigration policies, or more of them than we now do? What impact would doing so have, and in what arenas? What else from the article or its linked material do you find interesting or thought-provoking? Discuss, si man.

[TBoneTX 43,079]

I should add (and should have made it clear originally) that if resultant discussion focuses on family-based immigration & visas, this thread should likely remain here; if replies are broader, the thread perhaps better belongs in the "Immigration News & Discussion" forum.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

That is an interesting article, and I wasn't even aware about how the Mexican immigration law really works.

I have stated on several occasions that --in my opinion--our family-based immigration system in out of date and inefficient. A country should look for immigrants who help pulling it up, contribute to its prosperity, and fit nicely into the fabric of society.

There are plenty of honest, upstanding people in Europe (and I'm sure in other parts of the World as well) who have a good education or job training (in Germany, for example, you need many years of training and exams before you can open even a bakery or repair shop of any kind), saved several tens of thousands of Dollars, and would like to come over here, open a business and pay taxes. Yet there's no way for them as they are in a non-preference category. How does 2026 sound to you, perhaps, that is?

The only way in is really by marrying a US citizen or being a child or parent of one. You can be dumb as a piece of wood, a real crook who has managed to escape jail by poor luck, and have nothing but 12 years of school to show for, basically, you will be one of many unskilled workers fighting for minimum wage jobs, and you're immediately in front of the years-long line. Such a person becomes a LPR, gets a divorce, marries somebody from his home country, and the snowball effect is in full swing.

Regarding the "fitting into the fabric of society" let me tell you this: in 1970s Germany, they invited many workers from Turkey since the economy was in full swing and there was more work then people who could do it. These "guest workers" from a total different society were welcomed with open arms into the midst of the German population. We loved them!

Then more and more came, and the sentiment slowly but steadily turned around. When there were more guest workers than jobs, many Germans felt that the Turkish would "steal" their jobs from them. The immigration continued, and today immigrants from certain countries have the same stance in Germany as the Cubans in Florida and the Mexicans in Southern California. The ratio of native-to-foreign is simply out of a healthy proportion.

How can you tell? If the 80 year-old lady in her old Cadillac drives through neighborhoods where all the business signs are in Spanish, Mexican flags waiving in the wind and she feels threatened, like a stranger in her own land, then there's your sign. The sign that neigborhoods have changed so quickly, that a person who grew up there doesn't recognize them anymore.

If you implement the Mexican immigration policy, they would assign a certain quantity of immigrants to certain States. If you want to immigrate from Mexico to the US, they would probably say "California is full, sorry" so please pick another State. Fair? Unfair? I'm not getting into this.

Regarding giving preference from certain immigrants that fit in best, great idea; however, in the US with its political correctness that would never work. When does an immigrant fit in? If he doesn't put up a Mexican, or Guatemalan, or Indian, or German flag, but an American! By the way, when was the last time you saw a German or Danish or Swedish, or French flag on the pole of a single family home or as a sticker on the bumper of a car? Rarely, if ever, because immigrants from those countries feel like Americans, are proud to be in America, whereas many Mexicans refer to themselves as Mexicans, listen to Mexican music, eat Mexican food. They are Mexicans living in America, not really Americans who embrace the American way of life. And I don't mean that in a discriminatory way; I'm just stating what I observe in today's Southern California.

What I don't like about the Mexican model is that they really distinguish between naturalized citizens and born citizens. A naturalized citizen can not become an airline pilot or harbor master? Seems a bit extreme to me.

Other than that, food for thought. Who ought to be really doing some serious thinking is our politicians once immigration reform gets on the table. There are many ways to mess this one up as well, and I would be surprised if they discussed that to the nth degree and the result is an absolute disaster.

[MrsBocanegra 3]

Interesting read! I was in Mexico not too long ago on a tourist visa and was thinking about changing my status. It is indeed not an easy process. Before I looked into the process I figured it would be easy, but I think our immigration process is much easier for immigrants. Maybe we should take a page out of the Mexican immigration process it might ease up some of the back log we have. Honestly, I think if they can impose such tough immigration policies then we should too. If most Americans or even Mexicans for that matter, knew anything about Mexican immigration policies I think their would be few objections to tougher laws.

[Lia792 5]

It's interesting that you should bring this up, TboneTX, because it has been on my mind lately. I am residing in Mexico with a work visa and it was relatively low stress to get, and extremely low stress compared to an American visa. It took about a month to do all the paperwork and get the visa in hand.

Why, you might ask, am I living in Mexico? Because my soon to be husband and I cannot date in the United States. Not only that, but he cannot even get a tourist visa to meet my family before we get married because it is so hard to even visit the United States legally. I seem to remember looking up the DV Lottery and seeing that Mexicans weren't eligible. So how can a Mexican even get to the United States legally as an immigrant? through marriage or illegally.

There are still illegal immigrants in Mexico and they are still deported, but it's neither extraordinarily hard or expensive to become a resident of Mexico so most people are encouraged to be legal.

And Just Bob, I agree 100% with your statements regarding the illogical methods of the American system.

I just can't help but wonder what America is becoming now that it is so closed off while more and more illegal immigrants pour in every day. It kinda seems like a flawed system.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

I hear your MrsBocanegra. the system is NOT friendly, neither does it take into account family reunification at all. My take? it was put into place at a time when preserving national identity was a huge priority. It has not evolved with the times and has become quite stringent. In some ways, it similes the Canadian system in trying to bring immigrants to priority areas.

A couple of friends of mine tried getting married in MX a while back. He was a USC. My god, they made their lives hell on paperwork.

The whole inmigrante to inmigrado is a lengthy and SLOOOOOOOOOOW process... #######, we think USCIS is slow, try dealing with SEGOB. holy tamales de pollo! SLOW is their middle name.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Not to go off topic but I believe that Japan has the best immigration policies in the world. That's a country we should emulate. (Though it would help if we were an island.)

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Not to go off topic but I believe that Japan has the best immigration policies in the world. That's a country we should emulate. (Though it would help if we were an island.)

could you share a bit more info? I am unfamiliar with the Japanese policy

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Honestly? It seems about as fair as the US system, but historically has restricted unskilled labor to a much higher degree then the US. Also the system seems to minimize the ability for foreigners to set "roots" into the country (This is more of a cultural thing related to family names etc.)

I would say generally the US has a good and fair system in place with the exception of enforcement.

[TBoneTX 43,079]

This is exactly the level of discussion that I had hoped for -- deep, thoughtful, elaboration with detail, and definitely intellectually stimulating, si man.

"Family reunification" is interesting to think about in more ways than one. Not so long ago, Texas had "Class B" CBP crossings, whereby Texicans & Mexicanos could cross the Rio Grande to visit each other, transfer supplies, etc. Those "Class B" crossings were done away with (some still exist at the Canadian border, however), and the little footbridges that existed were blocked off or (recently) torn down.

For example, if I remember correctly without researching it, Lajitas (Texas) was across the river from (I think) Boquillas del Carmen, Mexico. American groups took Mexican handicrafts to sell in the U.S., and sent volunteer aid (educational, social, etc.) back across. CBP closed the border. For a brief while, families actually waded into the Rio Grande to hand off small items back & forth until CBP put a stop to that.

Soon, Boquillas (or a similar nearby town) had to rely on getting their handicrafts transported by Americans who drove hours away to the nearest remaining official port (Del Rio? Presidio?) and hours on the Mexican side to Boquillas, then back. That was not feasible. Small businesses (stores, hotels, bars) on the Mexican side waned and closed up due to the cutoff of their modest American tourist business. Now, most residents have moved out, and the drug-dealers have moved in. The idea of "sealing the border" (the "one size fits all" fence policy) had the opposite effect -- when once there were families on EACH side of the border that looked out for strangers and untoward activities, and REPORTED it (thus serving as adjunct eyes & ears for the CBP!), now there is only increased lawlessness... and the families can no longer visit each other as they did for generations.

Even sadder may be what has occurred in Candelaria, Texas (northwest of Presidio, TX, and across from San Antonio del Bravo, Mexico) -- very nearly at the literal "end of the road." The Candelaria footbridge over the Rio Grande (which is barely a stream up there) existed for nearly 100 years. It too used to be a "Class B" crossing, but when that status ended, locals still visited each other (mostly the Texicans going to SA del B, bringing groceries and the U.S.-born grandkids for visits, etc.). The only doctor for 48 miles was on the Mexican side. CBP couldn't monitor that footbridge ALL the time (they were up there mostly at night), so families could still go over from Texas & back as long as they didn't get caught. Again, NO drug-dealers were permitted to get away with anything, due to the vigilance of the locals on both sides who had a daily stake in their own safety.

Not even one year ago, CBP ordered the bridge torn down, to prevent what they called "furtherance." Several smaller footbridges in the general area were also ordered destroyed. Now, the few residents of Candelaria must drive 48 miles to Presidio, cross at the legal port there, drive back up to SA del B on what's reputed to be an absolutely awful road, then return the same way. The Mexican kids who went to school in the U.S. now have to cross in terror, from fear of being caught and prosecuted. Candelarians now have no ready access to medical care, which will genuinely mean a matter of life or death. Families that were close for generatios have now been separated. There is surely more than the one drug-dealer in San Antonio del Bravo now. Presidio (Texas) & Ojinaga (Mexico) have been sister cities forever, and a legal POE remains there; why must Candelaria & SA de B suffer when no harm was occurring?

I plan to write about all of this in a book for which I've been collecting information for 4 years now.

You can find Lajitas/Boquillas on the Texas map by the Rio Grande on the southeastern side of the Big Bend, and Presidio/Ojinaga (&, with luck, Candelaria) on the northwestern upswing of the Big Bend.

This has little to do with "family-based" visas, yet it does speak to the wisdom or folly of a completely shut-off border. Sigh, man.

[Chica Yeyé 41]

Brother TBone, -please keep me up to date in your book - I will really enjoy such a read, si man

[TBoneTX 43,079]

Brother TBone, -please keep me up to date in your book - I will really enjoy such a read, si man

What a humbling endorsement, Sister Chica-Len, si man. I intended to cross every Tex-Mex port at least twice in order to collect information -- originally for a tourist book, which it would still be, except with the additional inevitable discussion about interaction with CBP and area law-enforcement -- much of it commendable, some truly frightening.

After the debacle in Ecuador, which knocked the book from high priority and sorely damaged the recency of my previously collected information, I will also certainly find a way to skewer those puercos during a discussion of border fences/illegal immigration/LEGAL immigration, si man, because the general public has little knowledge at all, let alone insight, into the possible travails, no man.

As to the chief topic of the book (tourism and genuine current conditions, I would deeply appreciate being directed to individuals who are intimately and recently familiar with ANY of the Mexican border cities with Texas & New Mexico, especially the smaller ones, in order to pick their cabezas privately, si man. The Mexican smaller towns of interest are (from southeast to northwest from Brownsville/Matamoros): Nuevo Progreso, Cd. Gustavo Ordaz Diaz, Cd. Camargo (the one just across from Rio Grande City, TX), Cd. Miguel Aleman, Boquillas del Carmen, (and in Chihuahua) Ojinaga, El Porvenir, Caseta, Zaragoza, San Jeronimo (across from Santa Teresa, New Mexico), and Palomas. English-only, please, unless the stuff is so valuable that Mrs. T-B. MUST translate it (sigh man). Please send me a PM for later contact by regular e-mail, si man.

Meanwhile, I ask you and the other posters so far to please alert your most intelligent, thoughtful VJ amigos/amigas to this thread, in order to get their insights into the primary discussion, which is what looks best/worst about Mexico's immigration/citizenship/worker policies and what the U.S. might do well to consider adopting. Gracias, man.

[lucyrich 19]

One interesting aspect of the original linked article is that it doesn't appear to make a distinction between what the law says and how it is enforced.

US immigration law already has some of the provisions that are called out as admirable in Mexican law. For example, nobody is admitted who will become a public charge, they won't allow people in who have criminal history or certain previous immigration violations.

But a problem is that while these provisions exist on paper, they aren't always enforced in fact. And of course, there's one thing which almost everyone agrees is a problem with US immigration law and policy: the fact that people who want to come here but don't meet the criteria to do so legally often come here anyway regardless of the law. Once they're here, they find it possible to live "under the radar" without documentation, and many do so for years, even decades. For some, there's a "revolving door" of deportation followed by illegal re-entry.

This won't be solved by changing our immigration law to give preference to British Nationals or those from other English-speaking countries, to call out one aspect of Mexican law that was lauded.

I don't know how much of a problem Mexico has with illegal immigrants. But the economic and cultural situation is different enough that, even if Mexico has founds her perfect ideal solution to her own immigration problem, that's no guarantee it will work here.

I did like the idea that Mexico says that naturalized citizens are ineligible to become governor of a Mexican state. Perhaps California should consider adding a similar provision to their list of gubenatorial qualifications.

[Brother Hesekiel 2,235]

I did like the idea that Mexico says that naturalized citizens are ineligible to become governor of a Mexican state. Perhaps California should consider adding a similar provision to their list of gubenatorial qualifications.

It is interesting to note that California's current Governator is not only a naturalized US citizen, but still holds dual citizenship to this day, something that is quite unusual (but not unique) for a head of State.

[Lia792 5]

lucyrich, Mexico has a lot of illegal immigrants. There is actually a commercial right now that talks about legalizing one's status. I can't find the news article but they just deported a large number of people last month or so.

Chica Yeye, FM2 is hard to get I hear, even for foreigners married to a Mexican. But an FM3 is not hard at all if the foreigner can get up the nerve to teach their language. Maybe because I had a relevant degree I had more than enough job offers after a city-wide resume drop. I think a lot of foreigners live here on FM3 visas that they renew yearly and don't go for the FM2s. LOL sometimes I just get irritated that everything always takes 2+ trips. But on a reciprocal note, my boyfriend can't go to the United States and do the same thing that I did. But I was glad I had someone to walk me through all the steps or I would have been pretty frustrated.

TBoneTX, your book sounds very interesting and I would be interested in hearing more about your views regarding immigration.

Sousuke, it is good to thing that maybe someone does have a successful immigration system. Definitely not the United States. I keep waiting for the 2010 Immigration Reform but I don't have a lot of hope as it seems they are focusing on amnesty rather than reforming the severely warped system.