Foolish friend wants to come to US on visitor visa & marry b/c fiancee won't fly to Morocco

[rsn 135]

Topic title pretty much says it all.. He comes from a fairly wealthy family in Morocco, so it's possible he might actually get a visitor visa.. I've explained to him that if they find out he intended to marry on it, he could get banned.. His fiancee has 2 kids and is unemployed and afraid to fly, so they see this as an only option- I also told him he could come here and stay for his visa, then return to Morocco so she could file a K-1, but they seem pretty intent upon disregarding immigration laws to satisfy their own impatience

What kind of obstacles are they putting in their own path? Maybe I could get him to see the light before he seriously screws up their case!!

Thanks

Sarah

There is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa and marrying w/ a previous intent to do so. Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with the intent to marry & immigrate as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app.

A visitor visa will NOT be granted to someone who tells the truth, that he is coming here to marry. His purpose in visiting will be asked, and if he tells the truth, he'll be denied. How misinformed can you be?

I just read your post again and realized that you aren't even arguing about the intent to immigrate. You seriously think that it is not possible to come here on a tourist visa and marry without breaking the law? Really? Wow. And you are calling me misinformed?

Edited November 7, 2009 by rsn

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Topic title pretty much says it all.. He comes from a fairly wealthy family in Morocco, so it's possible he might actually get a visitor visa.. I've explained to him that if they find out he intended to marry on it, he could get banned.. His fiancee has 2 kids and is unemployed and afraid to fly, so they see this as an only option- I also told him he could come here and stay for his visa, then return to Morocco so she could file a K-1, but they seem pretty intent upon disregarding immigration laws to satisfy their own impatience

What kind of obstacles are they putting in their own path? Maybe I could get him to see the light before he seriously screws up their case!!

Thanks

Sarah

Horsesqueeze. They see this as an easy option. He can, legally, get a tourist visa, fly to the United States, marry his fiancee in the US, she can petition him on a CR-1 and he can go back to wait for the approval. That is their LEGAL option. I would give them slim to no chance a man from Morroco could pull this off the illegal route. They will be married and he will be deported. Great. Also no matter how they do this, she is going to have to provide an affidavit of support for him to adjust status. I can tell you that even beneficiaries from Morroco that do it the legal way are heavily scrutinized.

[KittyPollitt 284]

Thanks to everyone who responded.. It's not only a frustrating situation for me because my fiance and I are choosing to do things the "right" way, but also because this guy is a friend of mine, and I would hate to see him mess up his chances to be with his loved one..

I guess all I can do is relay the things I have been informed of here, and hope that he makes the best decision..

Thanks again,

Sarah

[AlHayatZween 2]

Also no matter how they do this, she is going to have to provide an affidavit of support for him to adjust status. I can tell you that even beneficiaries from Morroco that do it the legal way are heavily scrutinized.

you ain't lyin'...

Thanks to everyone who responded.. It's not only a frustrating situation for me because my fiance and I are choosing to do things the "right" way, but also because this guy is a friend of mine, and I would hate to see him mess up his chances to be with his loved one..

I guess all I can do is relay the things I have been informed of here, and hope that he makes the best decision..

Thanks again,

Sarah

well, good luck to them... hopefully they will figure out a way to manage!

[TayRivers 4]

No official is going to allow him to enter on a visitor's visa if he declares he intends to get married and adjust.

If he enters on a visitor's visa and doesn't declare his intent to marry and adjust then he's committing fraud. The onus is on the applicant to prove there was NO intent, not always an easy thing to do. If they decide he doesn't satisfy this proof, he could be deported and banned from re-entering for LIFE.

They've got 2 options when it comes to doing it the legal way:

1) She applies for a K1, he applies for a visitor's visa and he travels with a copy of the NOA1 from the K1 petition and explains that he's staying only for the length of his visitor's visa and will return to finalise the K1 processing, or when they receive NOA2. And does just that. He then returns to the US on his K1 and then they marry and adjust.

2) He applies for a visitor's visa, travels to the US and they get married. She files a K3 or a CR1 application and he stays for the duration of his visitor's visa. He returns to finalise processing and then re-enters with either his K3 and adjusts or his CR1. He should, if he wants to avoid the risk of being permanently banned from the US, tell them at his POE of his intentions to marry her and that he will leave once his visa has expired OR the NOA2 is received, whichever is the earlier. He may or may not be granted entry but can't know until he gets to his POE.

3) Failing sense in listening to you, tell them that if they commit fraud and you know, you will notify the USCIS of their intentions. It's really not fair on anyone else going through the process properly. I did this with my roommate at the time, when she was asked to marry a guy she knew from school so that he could stay in the UK on her EU passport. Told her if she did, I'd report them to the authorities. She was mad at first and thanked me after he went to marry some other chick he knew. They were stopped at the Registry Office, he was deported and she was heavily fined...

I don't know if Morocco allows self-sponsoring but if so, is he wealthy enough to prove he has liquidated funds that are 5 x roughly 27,500usd? That's the amount he'll need for him, her and her 2 kids. Otherwise, again if Morocco allows it, they'll need a co-sponsor.

Your post is misleading... there is no permanent ban from the US if you enter and get married and remain and file for AOS... as others have said as long as you did not misrepresent your self at the POE then as a immediate relative of a USC (Spouse, Parents, Minor Children) you can legally file for I-130 and AOS and remain in the USA while it is being processed.

I would be interested to see where you are getting the information from that say you will get a permanent ban from the USA.

A link?.......

As a moderator you are giving the advice that someone enter the US with a non-immigrant visa with clear immigrant intent?

I understand that it occurs. Just wanting to get the VJ moderator's stance on this behavior.

If you read my post you will see that I was asking SunDrop to tell us where he/she was getting information that a person would be banned for life if they entered with the intent to get married and remain.

I also said that as an immediate relative of a USC it is legally possible to enter the USA on a tourist visa and not misrepresent yourself at POE and file for I-130 and AOS.

While I do not condone anyone attempting to take any action that is illegal, we all know that it happens. I was pointing out that there are situations where having entered on a tourist visa or VWP does not stop you from filing for a greencard.

In this case it is highly unlikely that a tourist visa would be issued in this case..

Tay

[Old Dominion 26]

Topic title pretty much says it all.. He comes from a fairly wealthy family in Morocco, so it's possible he might actually get a visitor visa.. I've explained to him that if they find out he intended to marry on it, he could get banned.. His fiancee has 2 kids and is unemployed and afraid to fly, so they see this as an only option- I also told him he could come here and stay for his visa, then return to Morocco so she could file a K-1, but they seem pretty intent upon disregarding immigration laws to satisfy their own impatience

What kind of obstacles are they putting in their own path? Maybe I could get him to see the light before he seriously screws up their case!!

Thanks

Sarah

There is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa and marrying w/ a previous intent to do so. Furthermore, there is nothing illegal about coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with the intent to marry & immigrate as long as there is no misrepresentation, for example, at the border or on the original visa app.

A visitor visa will NOT be granted to someone who tells the truth, that he is coming here to marry. His purpose in visiting will be asked, and if he tells the truth, he'll be denied. How misinformed can you be?

I just read your post again and realized that you aren't even arguing about the intent to immigrate. You seriously think that it is not possible to come here on a tourist visa and marry without breaking the law? Really? Wow. And you are calling me misinformed?

I have never known anyone from a high-fraud country who is granted a visitor visa for the purpose of coming here to marry. Have you? Maybe you are suggesting he apply for such visa to come here as a tourist (and thus telling a lie)?

Edited November 7, 2009 by Old Dominion

[Sofiyya 1,687]

If one is lucky enough to be granted a visitors visa, it's no different from a USC going to Morocco to visit, finding out they do want to get married and doing so - IMO. IT could go either way.

It is different from a USC going to Morocco to marry because we don't need a visa to go there like they do to come here.

My SIL is applying next week for a visa to visit with us. In order to be approved, she will be interviewed at the US consulate and is required to bring documents that prove that she has extensive ties to Morocco that will motivate her to return to her country to live. She will also take a letter of invitation from us that state where she will stay and what she will do during her visit.

B2 is not an immigration visa, it is a temporary visitor visa. While he can come and marry here, he has to be aware that if he misrepresents himself at the interview as merely coming to visit, he can be banned for fraud when it becomes clear that his intent was other than that. Judicial precedent is not reliable due to the government's ability to supercede it under the Patriot Act.

Muslim men from MENA need to be aware that immigration fraud applies to them in ways that it may not apply to someone from the west. And, so do the punishments. Tell your friend if she wants to marry foreign, she needs to get a J-O-B, some money and overcome her fear of flying. Travel and cost are a big part of getting this done successfully.

[brnidokiegurl 0]

I still say (in my opinion) a unmarried Moroccan man prob will not be allowed a visitors visa for any reason

[RAKASA 0]

always wise w/ the words Sofiyya

My 2 dirhams - this situations reeks of bad news! That's all I'll say bcuz I'm being nice

[SunDrop 59]

No official is going to allow him to enter on a visitor's visa if he declares he intends to get married and adjust.

If he enters on a visitor's visa and doesn't declare his intent to marry and adjust then he's committing fraud. The onus is on the applicant to prove there was NO intent, not always an easy thing to do. If they decide he doesn't satisfy this proof, he could be deported and banned from re-entering for LIFE.

Your post is misleading... there is no permanent ban from the US if you enter and get married and remain and file for AOS...

I did not say there was an automatic permanent ban. I was very clear about the responsibility of proof that there was no intent at the POE lies with the petitioner and beneficiary.

as others have said as long as you did not misrepresent your self at the POE then as a immediate relative of a USC (Spouse, Parents, Minor Children) you can legally file for I-130 and AOS and remain in the USA while it is being processed.He is not an immediate relative, he's a boyfriend/ fiance.

I would be interested to see where you are getting the information from that say you will get a permanent ban from the USA.

A link?......

If you read my post you will see that I was asking SunDrop to tell us where he/she was getting information that a person would be banned for life if they entered with the intent to get married and remain.

I also said that as an immediate relative of a USC it is legally possible to enter the USA on a tourist visa and not misrepresent yourself at POE and file for I-130 and AOS. Again, he is not an immediate relative at the POE.

While I do not condone anyone attempting to take any action that is illegal, we all know that it happens. I was pointing out that there are situations where having entered on a tourist visa or VWP does not stop you from filing for a greencard. I haven't said anything to the contrary. Sure, there are lots of people who have entered on a VWP or Tourist visa, decide to get married while there and adjust. And they are doing it perfectly legally. The illegality of this situation arises from his deception of obtaining a tourist visa when he has clearly stated his intent to immigrate by AOS following marriage in the US on his tourist visa.

In this case it is highly unlikely that a tourist visa would be issued in this case..

Tay

Let's look at the facts:

1) He's applying for a tourist visa so that he might enter the US with the intent of marrying his USC fiancee.

2) Using tourist visas/ VWPs to enter the US so that you can get married and adjust status in order to remain in the country is fraudulent use of the visa and if discovered, can lead to a lifetime ban.

According to section 212(a)(6)© of Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), any alien who, by fraud or willfully misrepresenting a material fact, seeks to procure (or has sought to procure or has procured) a visa, other documentation, or admission into the United States or other immigration benefits is inadmissible unless a waiver is granted. A finding of fraud under section 212(a)(6)© of the INA results in a lifetime bar unless granted a waiver.

3) The responsibility to prove there was NO intent lies with the petitioner/ beneficiary.

4) Morocco is considered a 'high risk' embassy and obtaining any kind of visa is not a straight forward process.

And the reference to the lifetime ban, please let it be noted that I said 'could result' not 'will result'.

[rsn 135]

No official is going to allow him to enter on a visitor's visa if he declares he intends to get married and adjust.

If he enters on a visitor's visa and doesn't declare his intent to marry and adjust then he's committing fraud. The onus is on the applicant to prove there was NO intent, not always an easy thing to do. If they decide he doesn't satisfy this proof, he could be deported and banned from re-entering for LIFE.

Your post is misleading... there is no permanent ban from the US if you enter and get married and remain and file for AOS...

I did not say there was an automatic permanent ban. I was very clear about the responsibility of proof that there was no intent at the POE lies with the petitioner and beneficiary.

as others have said as long as you did not misrepresent your self at the POE then as a immediate relative of a USC (Spouse, Parents, Minor Children) you can legally file for I-130 and AOS and remain in the USA while it is being processed.He is not an immediate relative, he's a boyfriend/ fiance.

I would be interested to see where you are getting the information from that say you will get a permanent ban from the USA.

A link?......

If you read my post you will see that I was asking SunDrop to tell us where he/she was getting information that a person would be banned for life if they entered with the intent to get married and remain.

I also said that as an immediate relative of a USC it is legally possible to enter the USA on a tourist visa and not misrepresent yourself at POE and file for I-130 and AOS. Again, he is not an immediate relative at the POE.

While I do not condone anyone attempting to take any action that is illegal, we all know that it happens. I was pointing out that there are situations where having entered on a tourist visa or VWP does not stop you from filing for a greencard. I haven't said anything to the contrary. Sure, there are lots of people who have entered on a VWP or Tourist visa, decide to get married while there and adjust. And they are doing it perfectly legally. The illegality of this situation arises from his deception of obtaining a tourist visa when he has clearly stated his intent to immigrate by AOS following marriage in the US on his tourist visa.

In this case it is highly unlikely that a tourist visa would be issued in this case..

Tay

Let's look at the facts:

1) He's applying for a tourist visa so that he might enter the US with the intent of marrying his USC fiancee.

2) Using tourist visas/ VWPs to enter the US so that you can get married and adjust status in order to remain in the country is fraudulent use of the visa and if discovered, can lead to a lifetime ban.

According to section 212(a)(6)© of Immigration and Naturalization Act (INA), any alien who, by fraud or willfully misrepresenting a material fact, seeks to procure (or has sought to procure or has procured) a visa, other documentation, or admission into the United States or other immigration benefits is inadmissible unless a waiver is granted. A finding of fraud under section 212(a)(6)© of the INA results in a lifetime bar unless granted a waiver.

3) The responsibility to prove there was NO intent lies with the petitioner/ beneficiary.

4) Morocco is considered a 'high risk' embassy and obtaining any kind of visa is not a straight forward process.

And the reference to the lifetime ban, please let it be noted that I said 'could result' not 'will result'.

If you would take two minutes to read the links I referenced, you will see that you are 100% wrong. Nowhere does it say that during the AOS process the immigrant must prove that there was no intent to immigrate. Please offer one example of a case where someone's AOS petition was denied simply because they arrived on a tourist visa w/ the intent to adjust status w/out any material misrepresentation involved. Also, the blurb you quoted does not in any way help to prove the uninformed opinions you have been pushing in this thread. All that blurb does it back up what I have been saying: material representation is grounds for rejection of an AOS petition. Coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with an intent to immigrate is not in itself misrepresentation. Your logic is flawed and I suggest you read up on this topic more before you continue spewing incorrect information in a public forum.

Edited November 8, 2009 by rsn

[antda 13]

Hi Squeaky580,

It's not illegal to come to the US and get married while down here for a visit. As long as one came here WITHOUT the intention to get married in the first place on the visit and not do this as to avoid and/or break immigration laws, then it's fine and legal to do.

I was in this situation before too, as I came over to visit my boyfriend (now husband), on a tourist visa from Canada for 2 weeks, and then ended up getting married here in the USA within those two weeks, and overstayed, and then filed the paperwork with immigration. And yes, it was risky, but I did get approved and got my green card afterwards (and am now applying for US Citizenship..lol..). Though if I were denied, there would have been no room for appeal, and could lead to deportation and/or a lifetime ban from the USA.

For more information on my sitation, see my VJ timeline (the link can be found on my signature).

However, from what you described, your "foolish friend" has "intention" and is better off filing for a K1 (fiance visa...go back to Morocco, file the paperwork, get married in the USA, adjust status), K3 (marriage visa...go back to Morocco, get married in Morocco, file paperwork, come to the USA, adjust status), or CR (marriage visa...go back to Morocco, get married in Morocco, file paperwork, come to the USA...)

Tell him: Don't be a fool! Don't mess with immigration! Don't commit immigration fraud! Do it the right way, or not at all!....

Hope this helps. Good luck with yours and your friend's immigration journey.

Ant (Visited, Married, Immigrated, Living Happily Ever After In The USA...)

Topic title pretty much says it all.. He comes from a fairly wealthy family in Morocco, so it's possible he might actually get a visitor visa.. I've explained to him that if they find out he intended to marry on it, he could get banned.. His fiancee has 2 kids and is unemployed and afraid to fly, so they see this as an only option- I also told him he could come here and stay for his visa, then return to Morocco so she could file a K-1, but they seem pretty intent upon disregarding immigration laws to satisfy their own impatience

What kind of obstacles are they putting in their own path? Maybe I could get him to see the light before he seriously screws up their case!!

Thanks

Sarah

Edited November 8, 2009 by Ant+D+A

[SunDrop 59]

If you would take two minutes to read the links I referenced, you will see that you are 100% wrong. Nowhere does it say that during the AOS process the immigrant must prove that there was no intent to immigrate. Please offer one example of a case where someone's AOS petition was denied simply because they arrived on a tourist visa w/ the intent to adjust status w/out any material misrepresentation involved. Also, the blurb you quoted does not in any way help to prove the uninformed opinions you have been pushing in this thread. All that blurb does it back up what I have been saying: material representation is grounds for rejection of an AOS petition. Coming to the U.S. on a tourist visa with an intent to immigrate is not in itself misrepresentation. Your logic is flawed and I suggest you read up on this topic more before you continue spewing incorrect information in a public forum.

rsn:

I'm more than happy to concede my understanding of the law is wrong IF indeed it is. I think the confusion lies in how there can be no material misrepresentation, if, at both the POE and the initial application for a visitor's visa, he states he intends to travel on said visa to get married and file an AOS.

Granted, if he can successfully apply for a visitor's visa and get through the POE having declared his intent, then yes, there has been no misrepresentation and good luck to them both!

Off to read your directed threads...

[Darnell 8,478]

If she won't fly, will she get on a boat? Bound to be someway to get to Morocco by boat, train, yes?

If he's so wealthy, HE can pay for the tickets, no problem !

[rebeccajo 14]

Have these two met before?