Marrying in the US on a whim do I need to return to Canada.

[pushbrk 12,109]

Oh thats what you meant!......you wrote "USCIS can impose a ban from entering the USCIS" I was like you can't ban someone from USCIS its an organization not a place.

Anyway, yes technically an adjudicator can deny the AOS for any reason, but he does have guidelines he must follow to back a case up later on. But if its denied on the basis of fraud and he has no clear evidence of fraud then you know its going to get taken care of in appeal.

I've never seen a post here in the past 2 years or british expat in the last 3 where an IO demanded proof of intent. In fact I've only seen two incidents (both on british expat) where fraud was found and it was because the people had clear evidence against them.

I do have question though. Does adjusting status via the VWP or whatever Canadians truly preclude the right to an appeal?

Yes, ban from USA, not USCIS. They don't deny based on fraud generally. They deny based on ineligibility due to having entered with intent to immigrate. They generally assume ignorance instead of fraudulent intent but the result is still a denial of AOS.

VWP, yes for Canadians I'm not sure.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Yes but they are ineligible due to fraud take my point?

[pushbrk 12,109]

Yes but they are ineligible due to fraud take my point?

I get your point. Sometimes it's fraud and sometimes it's ignorance of the law. They generally treat is as ignorance and simply deny AOS. That's bad enough a result to necessitate a readiness to take the burden of proof upon yourself. The adjudicator doesn't need much in the way of evidence. The applicant needs a plausible and at least factually true story and evidence to back it up or they are taking a great risk of denial and the associated consequences. There need not be any finding of "fraud" to result in significant consequences.

Look, it's either one way or the other. The adjudicator needs "evidence of fraud" or they don't. They don't. Since they don't, the applicant had better have some to support their case. That's where the statement, "The burden of proof is on the applicant." comes from.

[rsn 135]

Oh thats what you meant!......you wrote "USCIS can impose a ban from entering the USCIS" I was like you can't ban someone from USCIS its an organization not a place.

Anyway, yes technically an adjudicator can deny the AOS for any reason, but he does have guidelines he must follow to back a case up later on. But if its denied on the basis of fraud and he has no clear evidence of fraud then you know its going to get taken care of in appeal.

I've never seen a post here in the past 2 years or british expat in the last 3 where an IO demanded proof of intent. In fact I've only seen two incidents (both on british expat) where fraud was found and it was because the people had clear evidence against them.

I do have question though. Does adjusting status via the VWP or whatever Canadians truly preclude the right to an appeal?

Yes, ban from USA, not USCIS. They don't deny based on fraud generally. They deny based on ineligibility due to having entered with intent to immigrate. They generally assume ignorance instead of fraudulent intent but the result is still a denial of AOS.

VWP, yes for Canadians I'm not sure.

I don't think you are correct. In fact, there is case law that says otherwise. As long as they did not misrepresent themselves at the border, there should be no problem, regardless of their intent as long as the immigrant is an immediate relative of the USC.

Edited October 20, 2009 by rsn

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

I think maybe I haven't explained things clearly? Consider POE and AOS two completely separate things if you come by way of a tourist visa you are eligible to adjust because A. Your in the US and B. Your married to a USC. Thats what they look at during AOS.

Now the only place that fraud actually can occur is at the POE in that the person lies upon inspection. (Ironically if you tell them at the POE you are getting married and you intend to immigrate AND they let you through then you committed no fraud and can adjust.) So its fraud that makes a person ineligible not intent.

Therefore to say "prove your intent at AOS" your saying "prove you didn't lie when you entered". I'm sorry but thats not how things work. You were inspected, they let you in so unless some evidence surfaces that shows you lied then thats all there is to it.

Not to mention its near impossible to prove that someone didn't lie (polygraph maybe...) but it is very possible to prove someone did with cold hard facts.

[rsn 135]

I think maybe I haven't explained things clearly? Consider POE and AOS two completely separate things if you come by way of a tourist visa you are eligible to adjust because A. Your in the US and B. Your married to a USC. Thats what they look at during AOS.

Now the only place that fraud actually can occur is at the POE in that the person lies upon inspection. (Ironically if you tell them at the POE you are getting married and you intend to immigrate AND they let you through then you committed no fraud and can adjust.) So its fraud that makes a person ineligible not intent.

Therefore to say "prove your intent at AOS" your saying "prove you didn't lie when you entered". I'm sorry but thats not how things work. You were inspected, they let you in so unless some evidence surfaces that shows you lied then thats all there is to it.

Not to mention its near impossible to prove that someone didn't lie (polygraph maybe...) but it is very possible to prove someone did with cold hard facts.

[pushbrk 12,109]

I think maybe I haven't explained things clearly? Consider POE and AOS two completely separate things if you come by way of a tourist visa you are eligible to adjust because A. Your in the US and B. Your married to a USC. Thats what they look at during AOS.

Now the only place that fraud actually can occur is at the POE in that the person lies upon inspection. (Ironically if you tell them at the POE you are getting married and you intend to immigrate AND they let you through then you committed no fraud and can adjust.) So its fraud that makes a person ineligible not intent.

Therefore to say "prove your intent at AOS" your saying "prove you didn't lie when you entered". I'm sorry but thats not how things work. You were inspected, they let you in so unless some evidence surfaces that shows you lied then thats all there is to it.

Not to mention its near impossible to prove that someone didn't lie (polygraph maybe...) but it is very possible to prove someone did with cold hard facts.

We'll just have to disagree then. It doesn't work that way.

[rsn 135]

I think maybe I haven't explained things clearly? Consider POE and AOS two completely separate things if you come by way of a tourist visa you are eligible to adjust because A. Your in the US and B. Your married to a USC. Thats what they look at during AOS.

Now the only place that fraud actually can occur is at the POE in that the person lies upon inspection. (Ironically if you tell them at the POE you are getting married and you intend to immigrate AND they let you through then you committed no fraud and can adjust.) So its fraud that makes a person ineligible not intent.

Therefore to say "prove your intent at AOS" your saying "prove you didn't lie when you entered". I'm sorry but thats not how things work. You were inspected, they let you in so unless some evidence surfaces that shows you lied then thats all there is to it.

Not to mention its near impossible to prove that someone didn't lie (polygraph maybe...) but it is very possible to prove someone did with cold hard facts.

We'll just have to disagree then. It doesn't work that way.

This was discussed in detail in this thread as well. Case law examples were also cited.

[Kittyfang 6]

I think maybe I haven't explained things clearly? Consider POE and AOS two completely separate things if you come by way of a tourist visa you are eligible to adjust because A. Your in the US and B. Your married to a USC. Thats what they look at during AOS.

Now the only place that fraud actually can occur is at the POE in that the person lies upon inspection. (Ironically if you tell them at the POE you are getting married and you intend to immigrate AND they let you through then you committed no fraud and can adjust.) So its fraud that makes a person ineligible not intent.

Therefore to say "prove your intent at AOS" your saying "prove you didn't lie when you entered". I'm sorry but thats not how things work. You were inspected, they let you in so unless some evidence surfaces that shows you lied then thats all there is to it.

Not to mention its near impossible to prove that someone didn't lie (polygraph maybe...) but it is very possible to prove someone did with cold hard facts.

We'll just have to disagree then. It doesn't work that way.

This was discussed in detail in this thread as well. Case law examples were also cited.

I've been reading this thread with great interest. Specially because, in my case, it's just about impossible to prove that I had no intent to marry when I came (I didn't and did not lie at the PoE). I would love to have something smart to say, but I'm just not that knowledgeable about this area, but I do remember the post and I think it was "decided" that they do not generally ask/care about intent. Most likely because it's hard to prove for both side. They go with the fact that, if the person got trough the border, they didn't lie... Or at least, the CBP doesn't believe they did.

Now, you got Kittyfang all stressed out. Can I get someone to calm me down, or do I need to write 14 different posts?

[Kittyfang 6]

I think maybe I haven't explained things clearly? Consider POE and AOS two completely separate things if you come by way of a tourist visa you are eligible to adjust because A. Your in the US and B. Your married to a USC. Thats what they look at during AOS.

Now the only place that fraud actually can occur is at the POE in that the person lies upon inspection. (Ironically if you tell them at the POE you are getting married and you intend to immigrate AND they let you through then you committed no fraud and can adjust.) So its fraud that makes a person ineligible not intent.

Therefore to say "prove your intent at AOS" your saying "prove you didn't lie when you entered". I'm sorry but thats not how things work. You were inspected, they let you in so unless some evidence surfaces that shows you lied then thats all there is to it.

Not to mention its near impossible to prove that someone didn't lie (polygraph maybe...) but it is very possible to prove someone did with cold hard facts.

We'll just have to disagree then. It doesn't work that way.

This was discussed in detail in this thread as well. Case law examples were also cited.

I've been reading this thread with great interest. Specially because, in my case, it's just about impossible to prove that I had no intent to marry when I came (I didn't and did not lie at the PoE). I would love to have something smart to say, but I'm just not that knowledgeable about this area, but I do remember the post and I think it was "decided" that they do not generally ask/care about intent. Most likely because it's hard to prove for both side. They go with the fact that, if the person got trough the border, they didn't lie... Or at least, the CBP doesn't believe they did.

Now, you got Kittyfang all stressed out. Can I get someone to calm me down, or do I need to write 14 different posts?

I forgot to mention. I remember many people telling me that they were not asked any questions regarding intent, or if they did it was not very probing questions. But then again, our situations were the same and different from the OP's.

[Kittykisses73 1]

Despite the bashing your going to receive because of your situation, people do find themselves in your situation. Myself included! My now husband came here to the US in Aug 2008, we were meeting for the first time. He was here about 7 weeks when he proposed & I accepted. We got married Nov 2008. We gathered all the necessary documents from his country & were finally able to file Feb 2009. His greencard was approved July 2009

If you had no intent of marrying when you entered (which in my opinion, I think they sort of take your intent to be determined at you POE), you file the I-485, I-130, I-765, I-864 (& I-864A if needed), G-325A, I-693 & I-131, can prove you have a legitimate marriage, & are prepared for the fees roughly $2000, you should be fine.

Much luck & happiness!

[Kittyfang 6]

Despite the bashing your going to receive because of your situation, people do find themselves in your situation. Myself included! My now husband came here to the US in Aug 2008, we were meeting for the first time. He was here about 7 weeks when he proposed & I accepted. We got married Nov 2008. We gathered all the necessary documents from his country & were finally able to file Feb 2009. His greencard was approved July 2009

If you had no intent of marrying when you entered (which in my opinion, I think they sort of take your intent to be determined at you POE), you file the I-485, I-130, I-765, I-864 (& I-864A if needed), G-325A, I-693 & I-131, can prove you have a legitimate marriage, & are prepared for the fees roughly $2000, you should be fine.

Much luck & happiness!

Thank you for sharing your experience. It is true that I get bashed a lot. I do understand why.

As for the intent issue, I think this sentence: "I think they sort of take your intent to be determined at you POE" is the best example. If the CBP lets you trough, it's because he believes what you're telling him. Why would USCIS go back and suddenly doubt that?... Maybe if you tell them "Oh, I totally was coming over to marry and I totally lied to the CBP"... I won't be doing that!