President Reagan speaks about Socialized medicine.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Its interesting how employer health insurance came to be. Even though it began before WWII, it expanded mainly because of wage freezes during the war. To attract workers, businesses increased health insurance coverage and quality.

[HAL 9000 96]

So if its to expensive for all of us, how are all of us together going to be able to afford it? and that doesnt include that well oiled government beaurocracy.

the same way wal-mart offers $4 scripts..buying/bargaining power. a few hundred million vs. 1 who gets the best price?

Yes exactly, but you dont have to turn the system on its head to acheive that. If all insurance providers could sell in all states would also help.

Not a bad idea to allow insurance companies to cross state lines.

What you will end up with, eventually, though, is one or two giants.

Wal-Mart-like, you know?

I don't have a problem with this and hopefully it can be worded into the final bill, as long as Republicans don't suddenly turn on that too.

[rebeccajo 14]

Its interesting how employer health insurance came to be. Even though it began before WWII, it expanded mainly because of wage freezes during the war. To attract workers, businesses increased health insurance coverage and quality.

It didn't cost a fortune to provide health insurance for your employees at that time either.

In fact, it didn't cost a fortune just 25 years ago.

[Heracles 417]

So if its to expensive for all of us, how are all of us together going to be able to afford it? and that doesnt include that well oiled government beaurocracy.

the same way wal-mart offers $4 scripts..buying/bargaining power. a few hundred million vs. 1 who gets the best price?

Yep. Smoke is spot on.

If the government buys a policy for 47 million, they will buy great service at a lower price. They don't have to buy it from one provider alone, but could tender to 5 or 10 and have different providers compete with one another. Something Australia is now proposing too.

Same way if I went to best buy and said I want to buy one hd tv, they would say $1,000. Now if I said I want to buy 5 million of them, I would probably purchase them for $400 each. Price goes down the more you buy. Effectively, the government is using their bulk buying power to negotiate the best price. They would combine medicare, covering the uninsured as well as covering the under-insured and have an enormous buying power. Which is what walmart basically does.

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[SMOKE 1,426]

So if its to expensive for all of us, how are all of us together going to be able to afford it? and that doesnt include that well oiled government beaurocracy.

the same way wal-mart offers $4 scripts..buying/bargaining power. a few hundred million vs. 1 who gets the best price?

Yes exactly, but you dont have to turn the system on its head to acheive that. If all insurance providers could sell in all states would also help.

trust me i'm no fan of government run healthcare. i don't think the whole system is going straight single payer either. the uproar has been to big. (coordinated & genuine) i honestly believe when congress gets back to washington there will be discussions & concessions. the final healthcare bill won't be 1100 pages long. there will be new regulations put on insurance & pharma. the dems aren't stupid. they know, if its a forced takeover there will be a backlash in 2010 & beyond

[SMOKE 1,426]

So if its to expensive for all of us, how are all of us together going to be able to afford it? and that doesnt include that well oiled government beaurocracy.

the same way wal-mart offers $4 scripts..buying/bargaining power. a few hundred million vs. 1 who gets the best price?

Funny- I thought Wal-Mart was reducing competition by absorbing the market. I don't think my previous post was very well read (not by you).

you know i only read what i post.

[Heracles 417]

Or, it will not. I tend to read what's actually written.

OK then READ THIS...It will be cheaper for employers to pay the 8% penalty than to provide their employees health care benefits. Believe me I have a business and I know how much it costs to provide so........

Therefore, anyone with a business should not have a problem with the reform, as it will reduce their operating costs.

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

So if its to expensive for all of us, how are all of us together going to be able to afford it? and that doesnt include that well oiled government beaurocracy.

the same way wal-mart offers $4 scripts..buying/bargaining power. a few hundred million vs. 1 who gets the best price?

Yes exactly, but you dont have to turn the system on its head to acheive that. If all insurance providers could sell in all states would also help.

trust me i'm no fan of government run healthcare. i don't think the whole system is going straight single payer either. the uproar has been to big. (coordinated & genuine) i honestly believe when congress gets back to washington there will be discussions & concessions. the final healthcare bill won't be 1100 pages long. there will be new regulations put on insurance & pharma. the dems aren't stupid. they know, if its a forced takeover there will be a backlash in 2010 & beyond

this is why you get to preside my death panel, brotha.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Its interesting how employer health insurance came to be. Even though it began before WWII, it expanded mainly because of wage freezes during the war. To attract workers, businesses increased health insurance coverage and quality.

...and thanks to the unions - which are another sore spot for the Party of Do Nothings.

[Heracles 417]

trust me i'm no fan of government run healthcare. i don't think the whole system is going straight single payer either. the uproar has been to big. (coordinated & genuine) i honestly believe when congress gets back to washington there will be discussions & concessions. the final healthcare bill won't be 1100 pages long. there will be new regulations put on insurance & pharma. the dems aren't stupid. they know, if its a forced takeover there will be a backlash in 2010 & beyond

Governments is not running it though. As you said, they are simply using their buying power to get the best policy.

Every other government around the world uses their buying power to negotiate a better deal for their people. About time America's does the same for Americans in areas other than the Military. Because when it comes to military, both socialism and government run rhetoric flies out the window.

[Heracles 417]

Here is an example and summary.

Basic Heath care breakdown - USA! USA! USA! vs Aussie! Aussie! Aussie! Ohi! Ohi! Ohi! (Hazaaaat for the cricketers)

Copay

US = Deductibles vary and all of those shenanigans - Covers this not that etc etc

Aus = Zero deductibles for GP or visit to a hospital - Most essential testing also has zero deductible.

Cost to Employer:

US = a lot

Aus = Zero - covered by income tax and other taxes.

Annual cost to cover family: (Assuming a family takes home $60k)

US = $7,800 - depends on employer, coverage chosen etc

Aus = $810* - 1.5% federal tax on your income.

* Plus you can add supplemental insurance for about $1,200 and receive platinum service. Which covers braces for the kids etc etc - pretty much everything.

Quality of life: International Ranking (lower is better)

US= 13

Aus = 6

Life Span International Ranking (lower is better)

US= 30

Aus = 8

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[Heracles 417]

Forgot to add

Hospitals (from my experience)

US = Quite good but a bit small - Really depends on where you live, type you go to etc.

Aus = Much much bigger and newer - with more specialist treatment services on site.

Healthcare system ranking (WHO) - (lower is better)

US = 37

Aus = 32

Edited August 14, 2009 by haza

[natty bumppo 297]

trust me i'm no fan of government run healthcare. i don't think the whole system is going straight single payer either. the uproar has been to big. (coordinated & genuine) i honestly believe when congress gets back to washington there will be discussions & concessions. the final healthcare bill won't be 1100 pages long. there will be new regulations put on insurance & pharma. the dems aren't stupid. they know, if its a forced takeover there will be a backlash in 2010 & beyond

Governments is not running it though. As you said, they are simply using their buying power to get the best policy.

Every other government around the world uses their buying power to negotiate a better deal for their people. About time America's does the same for Americans in areas other than the Military. Because when it comes to military, both socialism and government run rhetoric flies out the window.

doesn't the military own your azz when you enlist?

[luckytxn 2,265]

Here is an example and summary.

Basic Heath care breakdown - USA! USA! USA! vs Aussie! Aussie! Aussie! Ohi! Ohi! Ohi! (Hazaaaat for the cricketers)

Copay

US = Deductibles vary and all of those shenanigans - Covers this not that etc etc

Aus = Zero deductibles for GP or visit to a hospital - Most essential testing also has zero deductible.

Cost to Employer:

US = a lot

Aus = Zero - covered by income tax and other taxes.

Annual cost to cover family: (Assuming a family takes home $60k)

US = $7,800 - depends on employer, coverage chosen etc

Aus = $810* - 1.5% federal tax on your income.

* Plus you can add supplemental insurance for about $1,200 and receive platinum service. Which covers braces for the kids etc etc - pretty much everything.

Quality of life: International Ranking (lower is better)

US= 13

Aus = 6

Life Span International Ranking (lower is better)

US= 30

Aus = 8

Luckily we have the internet to prove things. Here is a link to wiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Australia

[Ban Hammer 14,569]

Oh, if only that were so, wouldn't you be so happy? Truth is, you can't get a rise out of me ever, I piss on you every time

more about your strange bedroom habits?