5 Freedoms You'd Lose in Health Care Reform

[Ban Hammer 14,606]

But Gary, the very fact that any government run health insurance system - including that in the US - is by far more efficient than the private sector that we allow to rip us off year after year, decade after decade flies in the face of your assertion. You can't make an argument good enough to make almost half a trillion dollars worth of profits with nothing to show for it - a not unsubstantial part of that made by those very insurance companies - go away and pretend that government regulations are to blame. The lack of effective regulation perhaps.

yeah, for an excellent example of government run health care, just look at the VA!

Ick, dont' get me started on VA care. Both of my brothers are 20+ year retired Navy and they cannot stand the VA. They are both paying, through their employers, for private coverage. For them the VA is nothing but a fall back of last resort.

why aren't they under tricare if they are retired?

But Gary, the very fact that any government run health insurance system - including that in the US - is by far more efficient than the private sector that we allow to rip us off year after year, decade after decade flies in the face of your assertion. You can't make an argument good enough to make almost half a trillion dollars worth of profits with nothing to show for it - a not unsubstantial part of that made by those very insurance companies - go away and pretend that government regulations are to blame. The lack of effective regulation perhaps.

yeah, for an excellent example of government run health care, just look at the VA!

My husband liked his prosthetic leg being put on backwards thank you very much. He has positraction now.

on the bright side, he'll never run away from you. he'll just make circles.

[mawilson 2,133]

Here's an interesting chart:

The red line shows the consumption share of GDP going back to 1950 - you can clearly see

the consumption binge that led us into this crisis.

What's interesting is that if we exclude expenditure on medical care from consumption (the

blue line on the chart), the numbers haven't really changed much since 1950.

It's possible to argue that the entire consumption binge was driven by the exploding

expenditures on medical care - clearly a huge problem.

[GaryC 7]

But Gary, the very fact that any government run health insurance system - including that in the US - is by far more efficient than the private sector that we allow to rip us off year after year, decade after decade flies in the face of your assertion. You can't make an argument good enough to make almost half a trillion dollars worth of profits with nothing to show for it - a not unsubstantial part of that made by those very insurance companies - go away and pretend that government regulations are to blame. The lack of effective regulation perhaps.

yeah, for an excellent example of government run health care, just look at the VA!

Ick, dont' get me started on VA care. Both of my brothers are 20+ year retired Navy and they cannot stand the VA. They are both paying, through their employers, for private coverage. For them the VA is nothing but a fall back of last resort.

why aren't they under tricare if they are retired?

I am not sure. All I know is that my brother Mark had to go in for some surgery and had a very bad experience with it. His new employer ( a government contractor ) has platinum plated diamond encrusted insurance that costs him $300/month for the family. He went with that instead.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Anybody out there got a $19,000.00 hospital bill you are trying to pay off?

After it was reduced (as 'charity') by 25% of the original cost?

What is your point? Good health care is expensive.

We have all kinds of different insurance to cover us from catastrophic costs that would otherwise bankrupt us and leave us in financial ruin. The point RJ is making is that health insurance premiums are unaffordable by many Americans who are only one health crisis away from financial ruin. The whole issue right now is that we need everyone in the pool and we'll all be better off for it. No one should ever have to be faced with an astronomical medical bill that will ruin them financially. You couldn't afford that to happen to you and most Americans cannot.

Life is full of risks. Our health is just one of many. I don't think that any of them should be handed over to the government.

I am pretty positive I rely on the government for protection, from criminals, from terrorists, from other nations who could conceivably do us harm.

Gary, what is being proposed may or may not be the way to go, I can give you that. However what we have is a gargantuan mess, and so sorry, massive profits for private insurance companies who routinely deny care for folks who work, do pay, then need services is beyond defensible. They aren't being scapegoated, but called rightly to task.

We already don't have most of the alleged enumerated freedoms in your article, when we have health care [allegedly] it comes via our jobs, and we are subject to the largess of our bosses, or the opposite, alleged plans that cover virtually nothing at high copay costs. Significant numbers don't have health care, and those of us, you and I who do, pay for the most expensive coverage for those folks of all, ER care.

[luckytxn 2,265]

So I have read several times here that many believe that Fed health care will be free? No it isn't. The taxes will be going up yearly to pay for all this. Maybe at first it will be small but year after year it will creep up to heights that will make all gag. Sure I know you all bought the lie that the rich will be paying for it but trust me they can never pay for all everyone wants. The government will be a sponge sucking up all excess revenue that could be used for jobs and infrastructure.

Also laughed when I read that fed Care will be run efficiently. Anyone actually believe a huge bureaucracy will be run efficiently? Please don't make me laugh that hard.

We are now looking at the Socialization of America people. All here know the probs we have had here on getting Visas and this bureaucracy is a fraction on what we will have coming when the Feds take over health care. It has been a cluster ** for all here on just getting a visa so how can the Feds make health care for a whole nation efficient and cost effective. wake up sheep because you alll are getting fleeced. What has this Obama teh Socialist been putting into the koolaid that has everyone wanting to trust the Federal government so much now?

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I think there might be quite a few reasonable alternatives, but I don't hear too many being actually proposed.

The 'taxes will go up' argument is also offset by the fact that insurance premiums, money paid generating a huge profit by private insurance companies at the expense of the insured and allegedly insured, would be eliminated or go down.

Many other countries have some form of what the Right labels 'socialized' medicine. We don't need to reinvent the wheel, just look around and see what works, what would be a good fit here, and run with it. What we have doesn't work, that should be pretty easy to see.

[luckytxn 2,265]

What doesn't work here. The U.S has the best health care in the world and one where people come from all over the world to use. Even many Canadians come over to use our health care. If theirs is so good why do they do that? I keep reading how so many do not have health care so discover why they don't Is it by choice or is it they are at jobs that are considered a stepping stone until they graduate to a better job where they start a career? Or is it just a scare tactic as usual by the Feds to step in and gain more power over the citizens lives?

The Feds have never ever in history had a efficient cost effective bureaucracy so why would they magically pull it off now? The taxes they are proposing so far will be crushing for many and even more so in the future. One thing though I have seen is it would give a lot of money to their backers. Is that good for all the sheep?

[SpiritAlight 1]

Anybody out there got a $19,000.00 hospital bill you are trying to pay off?

After it was reduced (as 'charity') by 25% of the original cost?

What is your point? Good health care is expensive.

The U.S is the only industrialized nation without free* national health-care for its residents.

Let's keep allowing the trillions being spent to "police" the world...because the "bad guys" are all out to get us.

Yup.

The U.S. is protecting its interests.

That is all.

No one is interesting in helping people get repaired in hospitals.

And the insurance companies and pharmaceuticals would have nothing to lose.

Bah!

I've had a big day, week, month, year.

I don't feel like elaborating.

Wake up all of you who think the system is grand now.

Flame on.

*you know what I mean by free

Edited July 29, 2009 by SpiritAlight

[SpiritAlight 1]

Oh I want to add this:

I have insurance here in the U.S.

I cannot pick my doctor or which clinic or type of clinic I'd like to go to.

And you have to get pre-approved for thingies.

Imagine if you are need immediate attention and you need to be pre-approved.

Insurance companies love people, don't they....and they want to take care of you and make sure you are all right.

Bah!

The list is long.

And I am tired.

Good night.

[SpiritAlight 1]

Here's an interesting chart:

The red line shows the consumption share of GDP going back to 1950 - you can clearly see

the consumption binge that led us into this crisis.

What's interesting is that if we exclude expenditure on medical care from consumption (the

blue line on the chart), the numbers haven't really changed much since 1950.

It's possible to argue that the entire consumption binge was driven by the exploding

expenditures on medical care - clearly a huge problem.

Wow!

[DeadPoolX 9]

As someone who HAD fantastic health insurance in Texas and then moved to Canada, I can easily say that I much prefer the American health care system. Maybe I was lucky and I simply had insurance that most Americans can't acquire, but here's my experience with the Canadian Health Care system thus far...

1. It's very difficult to find a GP (general practioner) who is accepting new patients. Most doctors aren't accepting patients and it's even more difficult to find a female doctor (like my wife wants).

2. Can't choose your own specialist and your GP makes the appointment for you. There's no input from you.

3. You're required to get a referral before going to see a specialist. I never needed a referral in Texas. I could choose MY specialist whenever I wanted.

4. You pay provincial health insurance premiums IN ADDITION to having higher taxes. This may differ from province to province, but in British Columbia, you pay for your "free" health care through both higher taxation and REQUIRED premiums.

5. Medication is NOT covered by government health care -- for that you'll need PRIVATE insurance (like Blue Cross). So if you need medication, you'll have to pay up in order to get them or buy them out-of-pocket. I've been doing the latter and it costs a fortune.

6. Some provinces heavily discourage or outright restrict the use of private health care. The idea is that if private health care existed, doctors would move to it in order to make more money, thereby leaving those without money "high and dry." The problem is that this places everyone at the hands of government-run health care, even if they can afford more.

You'll find many Canadians object to my above statement, but it's true. I know quite a few Canadians -- some of whom are from my wife's family -- who've complained about this. I didn't know about this until today, but my father-in-law went down to the U.S. in order to get some tests and procedures performed. He wanted a private clinic and that wasn't available for him in Canada, so he'd have to wait months. In the U.S., he got it done right away (and yes, he did pay quite a bit).

7. Long wait times to see a specialist or get tests and procedures performed. A good example is that I needed to see an ENT, so I saw my GP in May and the EARLIEST appointment available for an ENT was in the middle of August. In about three weeks, I'll finally get looked at. In the U.S., I could've seen the ENT of MY CHOOSING and had an appointment within days (or at most, a week).

8. Limited facilities. Most U.S. cities have more MRI machines than the entire country of Canada.

I won't say the American health care system is perfect. It's not and could probably use some adjusting. Does it need a complete overhaul? No, I don't think it does.

Once again, maybe I was lucky. I know many Americans go without health care because they can't afford it and that's a real problem. I agree that everyone should have access to BASIC health care (such as regular GP appointments), but that's about it.

Unfortunately, the real issue isn't getting addressed. Instead of producing a reactive health care system (such as what it exists in both Canada and the United States), we should be looking to a preventative system. If people take better care of themselves, we'll have fewer individuals who require such a large and costly system. Whether or not we use the health care systems in the U.S., Canada or some combination thereof, we need to concentrate on a healthier society through prevention.

[SaadBell 0]

Freedom to choose what's in your plan

Sure you can choose a expensive plan which you can’t afford, or a cheap plan that covers nothing .

Freedom to be rewarded for healthy living, or pay your real costs

Healthy living is great, but you can still get a catastrophic illness that has nothing to do with healthy living. I know I got a catastrophic illness while I was at the peak of healthy living. I was teaching aerobics and woke up with my left side paralyzed, auto-immune disease, no cure, and no way to prevent it. So living healthy is wonderful and for most will keep you in the green but don’t count on it. Should you be penalized for Breast cancer, ALS and other horrific diseases?

Freedom to choose high-deductible coverage

This is just funny, you have to pay good money for health care, and even paying all your life for this plan the minute you get really sick, and need a expensive medicine they will come up with excuses why you can’t get the medicine you need. You do know that doctors get bonus for turning down problem cases in insurance matters.

Freedom to keep your existing plan

Please this is just funny, if you are offered a better plan, better coverage, why keep your existing plan? If you wanna give your money to these insurance companies, have at it.

Freedom to choose your doctors

What crack pipe are you smoking, maybe your doctor you want doesn't take you insurance plan, it happens everyday.

America always says we are a big Christian nation, don't see a lot of love for the sick and uninsured. I guess that the love only goes so far.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So I have read several times here that many believe that Fed health care will be free?

Can you point me to the posts that have made that claim - I can't seem to find them.

The taxes will be premiums are going up yearly to pay for all this. Maybe at At first it will be was small but year after year it will creep crept up to heights that will make all gag. The government private health insurance industry will be is a sponge sucking up all excess revenue 16% of GDP today and 25% in the near future that could be used for jobs and infrastructure.

fixed

Also laughed when I read that fed Care will be run efficiently. Anyone actually believe a huge bureaucracy will be run efficiently? Please don't make me laugh that hard.

Don't look now but the private health insurance industry has built a bureaucracy which is ridiculously inefficient and unsurpassed in size and cost by any government health care administration anywhere in the developed world. Facts hurt, I know, but they're a stubborn thing.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The U.S has the best most expensive health care in the world yet can't compete on any healthcare quality comparison with any industrialized nation. We are fairing better than Botswana, however.

fixed that, too.

[rebeccajo 14]

So I have read several times here that many believe that Fed health care will be free?

Can you point me to the posts that have made that claim - I can't seem to find them.

The taxes will be premiums are going up yearly to pay for all this. Maybe at At first it will be was small but year after year it will creep crept up to heights that will make all gag. The government private health insurance industry will be is a sponge sucking up all excess revenue 16% of GDP today and 25% in the near future that could be used for jobs and infrastructure.

fixed

Also laughed when I read that fed Care will be run efficiently. Anyone actually believe a huge bureaucracy will be run efficiently? Please don't make me laugh that hard.

Don't look now but the private health insurance industry has built a bureaucracy which is ridiculously inefficient and unsurpassed in size and cost by any government health care administration anywhere in the developed world. Facts hurt, I know, but they're a stubborn thing.

But blind 'patriotism' is so much easier than common sense.

Why do people who think the US is such a fabulous country alway say the government is inefficient?

And is there ever a point where 'patriots' realize that government allowing an industry to run rampant over its citizenry isn't really freedom?