Ever had doubts?

[thetreble 19]

Again, even in reading this last post, I don't think you guys are ready to get married yet.

I think I mentioned like 4 pages ago that you'd only met for the first time 4 or 5 months ago? And since then, only two face to face visit on your relationship record so far? You guys need to get to know each other better in person, spend more time with each other, and make sure the relationship is going to work out. That's the best piece of advice I can give you.

Time is on your side! You're young. Spend time getting to know what you guys both want, and mature a little bit...and hopefully things will work out the way you want them to.

As someone said previously, love isn't always enough. You can love someone to death, but it doesn't mean that you are both fully prepared to move countries, know that someone will be dependent on you financially for awhile, etc.

[JillA 2]

Again, even in reading this last post, I don't think you guys are ready to get married yet.

I think I mentioned like 4 pages ago that you'd only met for the first time 4 or 5 months ago? And since then, only two face to face visit on your relationship record so far? You guys need to get to know each other better in person, spend more time with each other, and make sure the relationship is going to work out. That's the best piece of advice I can give you.

Time is on your side! You're young. Spend time getting to know what you guys both want, and mature a little bit...and hopefully things will work out the way you want them to.

As someone said previously, love isn't always enough. You can love someone to death, but it doesn't mean that you are both fully prepared to move countries, know that someone will be dependent on you financially for awhile, etc.

Couldn't have said it better! What's the rush, explore the relationship for a few years and see how it works out. Most if not all of us here had to endure years in a LD relationship, and we're all faring pretty well

[Skillmare 0]

I am not your typical person. I don't have habits, routines, or addictions. Changing for me is to better myself. The changes Leighann wishes for me to make are mostly good ones, things I aspire to reach one day, things that will make me a better person. And with her love, I will reach it. It's not like she's trying to make me be something I don't like, something I don't want to be. She's not taking away things I like about myself. There's a difference between wanting to change someone and to make someone better.

Anyway, I think there is a misunderstanding. I don't disagree with you at all. As I previously said, the marriage thing was all her idea. Not to "blame" her, I don't, but it was all researched and everything by Leighann.

The issue I am having is she doesn't think we have a future. She has "killed" her feelings for me. I am not trying to pressure her into marrying me, moving down here; I am trying to convince her to not give up on what we have. I want to go up to Canada to visit her, see where she grew up, her family and friends... have a snow fight. I want to so badly... but she is not letting me. And I can't make her, and yet, my mind cannot get her out of my thoughts... it's impossible to just forget her for me.

[movingsoon2 0]

You sound like a great guy, willing to communicate and work things out. I so agree with the above posters, both of you need to give this relationship time. When you contact Lee again, she needs reassurance that financially your marriage can work. So when you contact her, you need to have a plan how to work things our financially. For example, tell her you are working on paying down the debt and that you are saving up for the engagement ring. In the mean time, you so want to keep in touch as you really love her. That way you give her hope into the future, that you are willing to work on finances which from her post is her huge area of concern. If she is going to leave her home for you, you need to make her financially secure.

That's how I was able to leave my home, I knew my husband loved me and he had a secure job to pay our bills after wedding so that I am not the only one working for us.

I really wish the two of you a happy ending.

[trailmix 77]

Of course originally I see my side, as anyone does, but I ALWAYS admit and accept when I am wrong. I do not hesitate to apologize when I think I was brash, stupid, ignorant, or wrong. I pride myself on this, the honesty, and not trying to play the "blame game." I sometimes see both people at fault, and think that sometimes only I see it this way and that I have the burden of apologizing without receiving an apology.

So I have read what you wrote - in fact I have read the entire thread - so in looking what you said above and looking at what Leighann said earlier:

That being said - heres the reasoning for my doubts. We argue - everyday. The way I look at it is: im moving countries for us, on top of paying for THE WHOLE THING. He should treat me like a princess, right? He says I don't see his point of views...but he can be a little bit of a jerk sometimes. He admits to it after we argue though (typical man). When we are together, it's wonderful. We are so in love...we feel perfect for each other. In person he is a wonderful man - a complete gentleman. He would do anything for me - this I know.

So there we have you saying that you can be brash or stupid or ignorant or wrong and then admit it - which you are proud of - and we have Leighann saying that you guys argue every day and that you admit to it AFTER the argument.

I was married to someone for a long time who did just that. No question in my mind that he loved me and would do anything for me. We argued quite a bit - he had quite a temper (I suspect you do too) - when he was wrong, which was often, he would admit it and apologize afterwards. In the heat of the moment he would say anything to try to make his point - do you do that?

The point I am making is that he is my ex-Husband - and that is why - well one of the big reasons why. You cannot verbally abuse someone every day and expect them to accept it - well you can expect it but it won't go on indefinately.

Seems like Leighann just wasn't willing to put up with it - as movingsoon said, some people need to feel secure about the move - Leighann said as much, what if she moves down there and it's no better? It's really not surprising that she is worried about moving.

Since you know this is a huge issue and you did not change your behaviour - what do you expect, what result were you hoping for?

You can say you will change all day long - but the words are empty unless you put them in to practice.

I truly do not mean to be harsh with you, I wish you all the best and her too - I hope you two work this out.

Edited August 11, 2009 by trailmix

[Skillmare 0]

You're assuming that we truthfully argue every day. It's called an exaggeration or hyperbole. We don't argue daily, though we do argue often, and it's not always my fault. I apologize when it is. It could be a small remark and Leighann can be upset by it. I'm a sarcastic person, I say things sometimes that I shouldn't say. It doesn't mean I mean it, nor does it imply that I am not willing to change my behavior.

Earlier this thread mentioned compromising. I admit to my mistakes, when I am wrong, and apologize for it, as I have said. Most people do not. Most people do not change. Is it not wrong for one person to pass blame onto his or her spouse, never admit to wrongdoings, and always play the blame game?

I am not looking to blame anyone. Relationships are two ways. I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I think you have me mislabeled.

EDIT: Also, the "you have to change and not just say it" is right. However, how can one expect to change if not given the chance? Leighann was willing to change countries for me, but she never did. Does that mean that she never intended to? You can't just automatically assume things; they have to be worked out. People don't change overnight. Most of our fights are petty, you'd laugh at them. Besides the fiances, I think it's mostly childish and is definitely caused by long distance. We want affection, to be there, not locked away in a house, sitting in front of a PC talking instead of being together. But you all have experienced this, so I don't even know why I mention it.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Skillmare

[trailmix 77]

You're assuming that we truthfully argue every day. It's called an exaggeration or hyperbole. We don't argue daily, though we do argue often, and it's not always my fault. I apologize when it is. It could be a small remark and Leighann can be upset by it. I'm a sarcastic person, I say things sometimes that I shouldn't say. It doesn't mean I mean it, nor does it imply that I am not willing to change my behavior.

Earlier this thread mentioned compromising. I admit to my mistakes, when I am wrong, and apologize for it, as I have said. Most people do not. Most people do not change. Is it not wrong for one person to pass blame onto his or her spouse, never admit to wrongdoings, and always play the blame game?

I am not looking to blame anyone. Relationships are two ways. I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I think you have me mislabeled.

Maybe I do, I don't really know you - and of course it is wrong for a person to pass blame.

My point, in a nutshell is she is concerned about:

A. The fact that you argue often and

B. She feels insecure moving so far away from home because of this.

You say you want to change - ok, well - if she means that much to you - stop arguing with her - yes, it's that simple.

That is the change that is needed, you say you want to change - so just do it.

Oh and i'm not saying that people should never disagree - that would be silly - i'm just saying that things can be discussed without anger.

Edited August 11, 2009 by trailmix

[JillA 2]

If you argue this often (as you both state you do) early on in a relationship, and not even living together married - that's a really bad sign. You should be in the "honeymoon" phase right now which many couples do in early dating.... It's not good that you're arguing this much. I think it would only get worse once you get married, not better. Sorry if that sounds mean but it's true, if you argue alot now it doesn't get all better and rosy once you're married

I do wish you both the best of course, whether you get back together or not...

[Skillmare 0]

Yes, we argue often. But you're assuming I start them all, are you not? Listen, arguments are typically both ways. Many times I have shut my mouth for her. Sometimes I do not. Sometimes she does things I don't agree with, sometimes I do things she doesn't agree with. It causes arguments. Everyone faces these issues. The problem is they affect her more than they affect me. I've grown up around controversy all my life. I shrug things off if I think they are minor. I don't feel like Leighann does this. It's not a bad thing, nor is it an insult; but it causes her more stress than she needs.

EDIT: And separating from me isn't going to fix this problem. That's my point. If it saved her from having stress... I'd be a little more okay with it. If I was the center of her stress... okay. But she was stressed long before she met me. She's had a rough life...

In any event, it's not worth debating. I'm just stressed, she's stressed, and communication isn't possible currently I suppose. UUUUUUUUUUUUggh

Edited August 11, 2009 by Skillmare

[JillA 2]

Yes, we argue often. But you're assuming I start them all, are you not? Listen, arguments are typically both ways. Many times I have shut my mouth for her. Sometimes I do not. Sometimes she does things I don't agree with, sometimes I do things she doesn't agree with. It causes arguments. Everyone faces these issues. The problem is they affect her more than they affect me. I've grown up around controversy all my life. I shrug things off if I think they are minor. I don't feel like Leighann does this. It's not a bad thing, nor is it an insult; but it causes her more stress than she needs.

EDIT: And separating from me isn't going to fix this problem. That's my point. If it saved her from having stress... I'd be a little more okay with it. If I was the center of her stress... okay. But she was stressed long before she met me. She's had a rough life...

In any event, it's not worth debating. I'm just stressed, she's stressed, and communication isn't possible currently I suppose. UUUUUUUUUUUUggh

No, not at all, I don't think you start the arguments all the time. My point is, if you argue this much (both of you, together) maybe it's not meant to be, maybe you're not right for eachother from the get-go. It's just a bad sign if arguing happens on a near daily basis, especially in the early stages of a relationship. It will likely only get worse and more frequent.

I understand you must be stressed, take a breather

[Danu 19]

Yes, we argue often. But you're assuming I start them all, are you not? Listen, arguments are typically both ways. Many times I have shut my mouth for her. Sometimes I do not. Sometimes she does things I don't agree with, sometimes I do things she doesn't agree with. It causes arguments. Everyone faces these issues. The problem is they affect her more than they affect me. I've grown up around controversy all my life. I shrug things off if I think they are minor. I don't feel like Leighann does this. It's not a bad thing, nor is it an insult; but it causes her more stress than she needs.

EDIT: And separating from me isn't going to fix this problem. That's my point. If it saved her from having stress... I'd be a little more okay with it. If I was the center of her stress... okay. But she was stressed long before she met me. She's had a rough life...

In any event, it's not worth debating. I'm just stressed, she's stressed, and communication isn't possible currently I suppose. UUUUUUUUUUUUggh

No, not at all, I don't think you start the arguments all the time. My point is, if you argue this much (both of you, together) maybe it's not meant to be, maybe you're not right for eachother from the get-go. It's just a bad sign if arguing happens on a near daily basis, especially in the early stages of a relationship. It will likely only get worse and more frequent.

I understand you must be stressed, take a breather

I do agree with Jill, and it really doesn't matter who starts the fights. The issue is more that the fights are occuring frequently enough to cause concern. Perhaps some of these fights could have been calm discussions. Thats something to work on on both sides. You said though that you brush things off that are minor, but thats what you did about the visa issue as well. You do sound like you really want to try and work things out, but both of you really need to learn to pick your battles. Like I said before, love isn't enough. I loved someone for 3.5 years, tried as hard as I could to work on things but when communication styles don't match up, it just doesn't work. My ex-bf wouldn't talk to me at all about important things and it drove me crazy, to the point that I actually picked fights because that was the only time he would respond. Thats not right. Fighting about everything except the important stuff also isnt right. I could care less aboout if Wes bought lunch today if we really need to talk about moving stuff, but as I also said before its about TALKING. About everything. I think Wes and I have only had 2 "fights" ever, and they were over and done withing 1/2 hour. We have disagreements on certain things for sure, but instead of getting angry or upset about them we both try to calmly discuss how we are feeling. It doesn't always work but at least we try. We both know that once we are actually married and under the same roof it will get a little worse before it starts to get better, its just natural when you have two different people trying to combine their lives into one.

One thing that does bother me is you saying you both do things the other one really dislikes. In a relationship it is important to try to understand each other well, and if either of you are purposely doing things the other dislikes just to bother the other one, or without any concideration of the others feelings, it doesn't bode well. Even if its something as minor as her going to the bar bothering you, she should be able to tell you with whom and that kind of stuff, and although you may be uneasy, its also not something to start a fight over. I know how hard that is because I've been there with trust issues too. However, I do truely trust Wes with my whole heart, and he tells me where he is going and when he expects to be back, texts me if hes going to be late so I don't worry. Thats a common curtosy thing. Yes I still feel slightly uneasy about certain things but I also know he's mine...I may feel uneasy, but I don't worry, and I definately don't start fights or try to make him not do those things. It would be very selfish of me to try to make him stop living completely just because I feel uneasy.

You guys may be right for each other, but just in this at the wrong time. Or you could be completely wrong for each other and you just don't realize it yet. I have been there, it sucks, it hurts so much to have someone "check out" of the relationship. If it doesn't work out, think of it as a learning experiance. Figure out (both of you) what you will and will not stand for in a relationship, and then the next time you will have a much better idea of what you want for yourself and the other person.

I wish you both the best of luck, I really do, no matter what road the fates have chosen for you.

[thetreble 19]

You're assuming that we truthfully argue every day. It's called an exaggeration or hyperbole. We don't argue daily, though we do argue often, and it's not always my fault. I apologize when it is. It could be a small remark and Leighann can be upset by it. I'm a sarcastic person, I say things sometimes that I shouldn't say. It doesn't mean I mean it, nor does it imply that I am not willing to change my behavior.

Earlier this thread mentioned compromising. I admit to my mistakes, when I am wrong, and apologize for it, as I have said. Most people do not. Most people do not change. Is it not wrong for one person to pass blame onto his or her spouse, never admit to wrongdoings, and always play the blame game?

I am not looking to blame anyone. Relationships are two ways. I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I think you have me mislabeled.

EDIT: Also, the "you have to change and not just say it" is right. However, how can one expect to change if not given the chance? Leighann was willing to change countries for me, but she never did. Does that mean that she never intended to? You can't just automatically assume things; they have to be worked out. People don't change overnight. Most of our fights are petty, you'd laugh at them. Besides the fiances, I think it's mostly childish and is definitely caused by long distance. We want affection, to be there, not locked away in a house, sitting in front of a PC talking instead of being together. But you all have experienced this, so I don't even know why I mention it.

You sound a little self righteous if I may say. You are basically saying "Most people don't change and most people don't apologize..." but you do those things so we should all give you the thumbs up?

The fact is, is that you don't know what most people do. You are making assumptions and generalizing an entire population of human beings.

The "petty" fights, as you say, are actually the PROBLEM. If you are fighting about petty stuff, imagine what is going to happen when something BIG and fight-worthy happens?

Also, to say that your fights are caused by long distance is so silly. You guys have only known each other for what..8 months? a Year tops? I knew Jared for almost 3 years, and the fights we had were not always due to long distance. Some times, they were completely unrelated.

I've seen a lot of people that come to these boards have this theory that for some reason, being together magically changes everything. That, "well, once we are living together and not having to deal with the distance any longer, we won't have these arguments any more.."

Well, wait until the resentment comes when a very young woman moves thousands of miles away from all she knows to be with you. No friends, no family, no one to lean on BUT you. Think of the pressure you may be facing then as well. Who bought the latest time for WoW will no longer be your biggest issue.

I think that is what you are misunderstanding, sir.

Edited August 11, 2009 by thetreble

[thetreble 19]

It causes arguments. Everyone faces these issues.

That is where you are wrong and are assuming again. I think many of us would say that while we have arguments from time to time in our marriage (about serious things...) that it's a rarity. Because with maturity, you learn to realize that the small stuff isn't stuff you "shut your mouth" about, it's stuff you don't even take notice of. And until you can both successfully do that, you probably should not decide to go through an immigration procedure and/or get married.

[Skillmare 0]

You sound a little self righteous if I may say. You are basically saying "Most people don't change and most people don't apologize..." but you do those things so we should all give you the thumbs up?

Nope. I may sound self righteous in that I don't lack self confidence, but I'm not looking for a thumbs up. I'm looking for opinions such as yours. I don't agree with it. Only I know what I am going to do, what I am willing to do. I also can tell you that the "most people don't change" is actually true. It's not my argument, it's the argument presented before me, one I agree with. But most and all do not mesh well together. If I made a statement like most people who listen to rock are white, would I be stating a commonly known and accepted truth or would I be generalizing and...wrong? Generalizing isn't always wrong.

But that's besides the point. Leighann said people don't change. That's her experience. And in her experience, she is right. I know of her former relationships, and those guys are not good for her, and they bounce between women. I am not such a guy. That's not self righteousness talking.

The fact is, is that you don't know what most people do. You are making assumptions and generalizing an entire population of human beings.

Well, addictions, abusive behavior...these things are rather commonly known. People who are in prison typically have long rap sheets for a reason. People who go to AA or other drug programs but don't change... there are plenty of exceptions, it's just most people do what they like. And what they like they don't change. Abusive men like the control, the dominance. Cocaine addicts like the feeling.

The "petty" fights, as you say, are actually the PROBLEM. If you are fighting about petty stuff, imagine what is going to happen when something BIG and fight-worthy happens?

Also, to say that your fights are caused by long distance is so silly. You guys have only known each other for what..8 months? a Year tops? I knew Jared for almost 3 years, and the fights we had were not always due to long distance. Some times, they were completely unrelated.

I've seen a lot of people that come to these boards have this theory that for some reason, being together magically changes everything. That, "well, once we are living together and not having to deal with the distance any longer, we won't have these arguments any more.."

And who here is now generalizing? Time does not make you know someone better. Time is not love. If you've read Leighann's previous posts, you'd see that there is a struggle. It's a struggle I want to help her through. Many people here have faced it, I've read many of the replies around.

And it is definitely distance that causes the arguments. How would I know that? Because the arguments mostly stem from things we can't do together. Getting pets, going to the beach, a club, going out to eat...you name it. Can't do that online, can't magically just spend time together. It's not like we've fought in person, the many weeks we've been together.

I am, for some reason, defending myself here. I don't even know why. You don't know the whole situations, the reasons for all of the arguments. You are here trying to shove your experiences down my throat. While I don't mind a differing opinion, do it with class.

[Sprailenes 47]

Like sands through the hour glass....