K-1 or F-1

[Marina-Del 10]

Right, let's just call the ones who disagree the thread highjackers and go on with your "be on the safe side" comments. Could anyone suggesting that please comment on the 100,000 question that can potentially negate OP's nice summary altogether? WHAT HARM CAN POSSIBLY DENIAL OF F1 DO TO K1 APPLICATION???

I also think OP is missing one point here based on this last post. We have almost identical situations, so I kinda see it in different light than everyone responding here. Not sure what you meant by "if you are coming to study on an F-1 and have NOT yet filed for the K-1", I presume you meant applying for visa after NOA2 - but you definitely missed the most obvious scenario - apply for F1 BEFORE NOA2 is received, get it if lucky convincing consul of non-immigrant intentions for the period of study (if let's say it's MBA it could as little as 18 months) and if not, just continue to wait for K1 without suffering any consequences.

You're wrong. It doesn't work like that. It doesn't matter when you apply for the F-1 Visa (before NOA2, before intereview, whatever) it makes no difference at all! The fact remains that you have to convince the consular that you aren't going to use that visa to get married.... If you aren't going to use that visa to get married, then you have to ABANDON THE K-1 VISA! K-1 visas are not visas that never expire, they expire.

If you happen to convince the consular officer that you aren't using the F-1 to get married: If you apply for the F-1 visa now, I assume your fiance will get it for the Fall semester. And study how long? During that fall semester sometime he/she will have their interview in Kiev....then what? How are they going to go to the interview? They can postpone the interview for a certain amount of time (more or less 90 days it seems). So they will probably have to have the interview around November at latest. But November is right in the middle of the semester!? How is your fiancee going to take off from school in the US to go to Kiev and do the interview!?!? If they don't go to the interview then the K-1 is abandoned and you have to START ALL THE WAY OVER AGAIN, AFTER YOUR FIANCE GOES BACK TO KIEV AFTER HIS/HER F-1 VISA.

You ask why attempting to apply for a F-1 can jeopardize the K-1. I guess it can't really...except your wasting your own money for nothing. AND, if I was the consular officer it would look like to me that you and your fiance are trying to bypass the system and that raises huge red flag! So if I was the consular I might put your case on hold to overlook it and make sure I"m not missing anything else. Maybe the consular would do this (and if so, it would put you back even more time!) or maybe they wouldn't (in which case, good for you).

I honestly think that there is something you're not understand here, but I'm not sure what it is. I have a feeling that you don't understand exactly how the K-1 works.

I'm not trying to attack you. All of us on VJ are here to help and we really want to help you if we can. Either with our advice or our opinions based on what we are read, experienced, and seen here on VJ and in real life.

So please, outline for us step by step what you and your fiance plan on doing. How long would they have the F-1 visa for? How could you possibly persue both visas? What would be the benefit of abandoning the K-1 visa to go with the F-1 visa instead (except for 2-3 months of being together sooner), but most likely longer than that being apart later?

And by ""Not sure what you meant by "if you are coming to study on an F-1 and have NOT yet filed for the K-1","" The OP means that if you HAD NOT applied for the K-1 visa yet then the consular officers when you apply for the F-1 would not know that you tend to immigrate to the US. So, you could apply for the F-1, marry in the US while here on that, then file AOS right away (of course if you did in fact intend to marry on the F-1 and you didn't tell them or lied about that, that is visa fraud as well....but at least they would be less likely to catch you). But, since you have applied for the K-1 already, then they wouldn't believe you for a second.

[conny 0]

One second there --- you hijacked jcg's thread. He asked a question, was given pertinent advise based on law and possibilities (not capricious points of view or beliefs), summarized it a page back or so (quite accurately I must say ) yet you continue to argue.

Now, how on earth would you convince an IO that there is no "no intent to immigrate" when you have a K-1 petition pending???????????

That was a sarcasm, don't get angry.

Everything else still stands though - did you not get my points about this (providing a summary):

- Lack of immigration intent was shown by multiple visits on various visas and existing multi-year tourist visa which was actually used after NOA1 with on-time come back to the homecountry

- Enrollment into major university with relatively short study cycle (way less than 5 years) and urgent need to start a study since the enrollment is conditional on certain classes to be taken in the Fall 2009

- Very long time since K1 was pending - couldn't his intent change since then? I heard 90 days is enough for OK on chnaged intent in USCIS books

- Need to come back to homecountry for finishing K1 process anyway

Not good enough reasons?

[Marina-Del 10]

Or, you can TRY for the F-1 (maybe get denied, maybe not, but remember NEVER LIE!) and you'll see your fiance a couple months later, then they'll have to go home in a year or so, then you'll have to apply for the K-1 or CR-1 visa ALL OVER AGAIN!

This is where I think we disagree. Why all over again? He would need to come back whenever the Kiev consulate receives a packet and he schedules an interview there, yes, but why all over again? it's a continuation of the same K1 process and I don't see why they would deny us to continue it if he receives F1 (or gets a denial for that matter)...

Okay, you answered one of my questions while I was typing an answer to your first response.

And I don't see how that is possible? How does your fiancee expect to pick up and leave the US in the middle of his/her school semester??

If you can do that, AND convince the CO that there is no intent to immigrate (which I think we all agree is a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG shot) then go ahead and use lots of extra money so that you can spend a month or two together.

[Marina-Del 10]

- Lack of immigration intent was shown by multiple visits on various visas and existing multi-year tourist visa which was actually used after NOA1 with on-time come back to the homecountry

- Enrollment into major university with relatively short study cycle (way less than 5 years) and urgent need to start a study since the enrollment is conditional on certain classes to be taken in the Fall 2009

- Very long time since K1 was pending - couldn't his intent change since then? I heard 90 days is enough for OK on chnaged intent in USCIS books

- Need to come back to homecountry for finishing K1 process anyway

Not good enough reasons? IMO, NO, NO AND NO. Nothing against you, but if I were the CO, I would deny you.

And your K-1 has not been pending a VERY LONG TIME. Please take a look at some other members timelines and then you can see a very long time! Your NOA2 should be any day now and then as Gary tells us so often you'll be in and out of Kiev in a matter of 3 months (on average).

I think we might as well give up everyone. I seems like she's not going to change her mind so we might as well let her go and waste her money and possibly spend lots and lots of time without her fiancee (either now before the K-1 or after he has to go back to Ukraine).

Edited July 1, 2009 by Marina-Del

[Nik+Heather 121]

Right, let's just call the ones who disagree the thread highjackers and go on with your "be on the safe side" comments. Could anyone suggesting that please comment on the 100,000 question that can potentially negate OP's nice summary altogether? WHAT HARM CAN POSSIBLY DENIAL OF F1 DO TO K1 APPLICATION???

I also think OP is missing one point here based on this last post. We have almost identical situations, so I kinda see it in different light than everyone responding here. Not sure what you meant by "if you are coming to study on an F-1 and have NOT yet filed for the K-1", I presume you meant applying for visa after NOA2 - but you definitely missed the most obvious scenario - apply for F1 BEFORE NOA2 is received, get it if lucky convincing consul of non-immigrant intentions for the period of study (if let's say it's MBA it could as little as 18 months) and if not, just continue to wait for K1 without suffering any consequences.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, for missing when it's been said more than once maybe this answer has been burried..

NO, denial of (or application for) F1 will not adversely affect your K1 application unless you misrepresent yourself.

[scandal 951]

That was a sarcasm, don't get angry.

Everything else still stands though - did you not get my points about this (providing a summary):

- Lack of immigration intent was shown by multiple visits on various visas and existing multi-year tourist visa which was actually used after NOA1 with on-time come back to the homecountry

- Enrollment into major university with relatively short study cycle (way less than 5 years) and urgent need to start a study since the enrollment is conditional on certain classes to be taken in the Fall 2009

- Very long time since K1 was pending - couldn't his intent change since then? I heard 90 days is enough for OK on chnaged intent in USCIS books

- Need to come back to homecountry for finishing K1 process anyway

Not good enough reasons?

I don't understand how your last two points can logically fit together?

Second last point "couldn't his intent change since then" combined with last point "finishing K1 process anyway" -- seems like a contradiction in terms.

The intent expressed by your K1 filing is an intent to marry. As has been pointed out several times in this thread, you BOTH declared your intent to marry, and signed your names to that effect. As long as your K1 petition is alive (at any stage... USCIS, NVC, consulate, post-consulate) that intent is active, and deemed active. Indeed - by your own words, you still intend to marry, that has not changed. The only way to change that intent would be to withdraw the K1 petition, and inform USCIS (or DOS if it's gotten that far) that you no longer intend to marry. Short of that - your intent has not changed.

Since you are not withdrawing the K1, and it is active, and you intend to pursue it all the way through to its conclusion (your last point) - it is obvious you yourself, us, and surely USCIS and consulate that you intend to marry, and have immigrant intent.

On that basis I would think that the F1 request will be summarily rejected.

I don't see any reason why this is fraud, so long as you don't misrepresent yourself there is no fraud, and should be no jeopardy to the K1.

The only harm will be some wasted time and money pursuing a visa (F1) you are not eligible for.

This is just my opinion based on limited knowledge of how these visa types are adjudicated, and the information you have provided.

Regarding length of time you have been waiting - as many have said, this is not a process for the impatient. Anyone embarking on a plan to immigrate to the US, on any visa type, had better be armend with patience, and plans to occupy themselves in the interim while waiting. In our case, we applied for our K1 last Sept and finally had our interview a few days ago - that's about 10 months end to end. Longer than most, not as long as some. No RFEs, no weird stuff, no security check limbos. Just lots and lots of waiting for the wheels to turn, at CSC, at NVC (AP for 2 months), at the embassy (Bangkok stopped issuing Packet 3 and interview dates for a couple of months this spring).

My advice is be patient, go through their hoops, in the end it will all work out right and you have the rest of your lives together. Don't jeopardize that by trying to save a month or two now.

Good luck, whichever path you pursue.

[conny 0]

I don't understand how your last two points can logically fit together?

Second last point "couldn't his intent change since then" combined with last point "finishing K1 process anyway" -- seems like a contradiction in terms.

The intent expressed by your K1 filing is an intent to marry.

Last two points indeed don't fit together but I listed all possible points I could think of - they don't have to be expressed together at the same time. Besides it all depends on how the conversation goes in the consulate. If you guys have some real experiences to share with this situation, I'd love to hear them.

As for intent. The way I understand it it's not an unconditional intent with no expiration. First off it's contingent on the approval of K1, second - it can't be forever standing - what if K1 is pending few years and we move on with our lives (not that we intend to). Yes, it could have been withdrawn, but my fiance doesn't control that, I do - it's my petition, so why would he be denied based on my no-action on it?

[conny 0]

And finally he intends to marry me "AFTER coming to US on K1 visa". Again, if he intended to marry me on any other visa he did have a chance to do just that already just last month while he was here on B1, but he came back and decided to apply for F1 because now intent to study is more important, again - he has no reason to combine these two intents as K1 would still be complete at some point and he could easily come back and change the status. Why wouldn't CO believe that given perfect visit/com-back history so far?

Edited July 2, 2009 by conny

[Marina-Del 10]

K-1s don't usually get left pending for years and years. Either they are left pending for a very long time and people withdraw them and move on to another visa route (like CR-1) or they get their congressmen on them and something ends up happening -or they at least find out *what* is going on...and then it's not really left "pending" (as in nothing is going on at the moment) but "processing" (as in something is happening like AP, but it's still in the process. So your point is a bit moot, IMO.

And yeah, I see what you're trying to do. Have him come on the F-1 so that he can get to the US to study a couple months before he'd arrive there on the normal K-1.

That still doesn't answer my question though. Even if the CO approves the F-1 (which I doubt, again), how are you going to continue with the K-1 at the same time. Ie. how is your fiancee going to go back to Kiev in the middle of the semester for their interview?

And another question: which is more important to the two of you: that you get married and be together as soon as possible or that he/she starts school in the Fall?

And I disagree about another one of your points. You are saying that you will use the fact that she/he came on a B-1 visa a couple months ago and didn't marry you then (even though they could have) and that will be evidence as to why he/she wont marry you on the F-1 visa. I don't think that's very good evidence. As you yourself have clearly stated, people change their minds and clearly get fed up with the processing times of this visa....

[conny 0]

If you aren't going to use that visa to get married, then you have to ABANDON THE K-1 VISA! K-1 visas are not visas that never expire, they expire.

What's there to abandon? No one, especially my fiance, has any documents or benefits produced from K1 process yet. If there was K1 visa then F1 wouldn't be required, but of course if F1 is already issued and used to study we can't get married UNLESS he comes back after approval and puts K1 in passport at which point F1 gets automatically suspended. No contradiction here. As for expiration, we definitely don't plan to postpone it anyhow - we'll get it as soon as it's done, but that's different story and different visit to the consulate.

[Marina-Del 10]

If you aren't going to use that visa to get married, then you have to ABANDON THE K-1 VISA! K-1 visas are not visas that never expire, they expire.

What's there to abandon? No one, especially my fiance, has any documents or benefits produced from K1 process yet. If there was K1 visa then F1 wouldn't be required, but of course if F1 is already issued and used to study we can't get married UNLESS he comes back after approval and puts K1 in passport at which point F1 gets automatically suspended. No contradiction here. As for expiration, we definitely don't plan to postpone it anyhow - we'll get it as soon as it's done, but that's different story and different visit to the consulate.

I'm sorry. I really don't understand this post at all. I have no idea what you are talking about. You have already applied for a K-1 petition. It doesn't matter that you haven't gotten your NOA2 yet, you are already in the process of getting a K-1 visa so there is a K-1 process going on, at least that's how the CO officer will see it, even if you don't like the terms I'm using to describe it. You and your SO have both signed letters stated that you will marry within 90 days of their entry on a K-1 visa, which you have applied for and are awaiting approval for.

Above you say the F-1 is already issued?? What?? I thought you hadn't applied for it yet and you were just planning on applying for it sometime in the nearby future.

And you say that you can't get married unless he comes back (to Kiev) after NOA2 approval and puts the K-1 in the passport. That's not true. You can get married on the F-1 (but you can't AOS). And again that still doesn't answer my question about how in the world he plans on leaving school to go to the interview in Kiev.

Anyway, seriously, if you can't get the facts through your head and different people on here have repeatedly told you (and on the other thread that you posted) I'm done arguing about this.

Good luck on your journey and I hope that the COs don't act how we suspect they will for your sake...but be prepared to lose a lot of money. But good luck.

[conny 0]

And yeah, I see what you're trying to do. Have him come on the F-1 so that he can get to the US to study a couple months before he'd arrive there on the normal K-1.

Exactly, or whatever amount of time needed for processing + scheduling interviews and so on

That still doesn't answer my question though. Even if the CO approves the F-1 (which I doubt, again), how are you going to continue with the K-1 at the same time. Ie. how is your fiancee going to go back to Kiev in the middle of the semester for their interview?

Not sure why you think it's hard. He'd tell professors that he has to change the status and come back in a week (that's how long it takes to get visa stamp once all documents received by consulate and medical scheduled to monday and interview scheduled to Tuesday in Kiev according to Gary and Alla.

And another question: which is more important to the two of you: that you get married and be together as soon as possible or that he/she starts school in the Fall?

Marina-Del, it's hard to follow your logic - of course both are important (with exception to marriage, which can wait as hard as it is say for a girl) and that's why going this route vs what you propose (wait whatever time is required for "wheels starting to turn")

And I disagree about another one of your points. You are saying that you will use the fact that she/he came on a B-1 visa a couple months ago and didn't marry you then (even though they could have) and that will be evidence as to why he/she wont marry you on the F-1 visa. I don't think that's very good evidence. As you yourself have clearly stated, people change their minds and clearly get fed up with the processing times of this visa....

I'm not saying it's an ultimate proof but it's another proof of lack of illegal intent. Again, with F1 there's no reason to get fed up - we wouldn't wait for anything and be together.

[Marina-Del 10]

Whatever...as stated I'm done.

[conny 0]

What's there to abandon? No one, especially my fiance, has any documents or benefits produced from K1 process yet. If there was K1 visa then F1 wouldn't be required, but of course if F1 is already issued and used to study we can't get married UNLESS he comes back after approval and puts K1 in passport at which point F1 gets automatically suspended. No contradiction here. As for expiration, we definitely don't plan to postpone it anyhow - we'll get it as soon as it's done, but that's different story and different visit to the consulate.

Above you say the F-1 is already issued?? What?? I thought you hadn't applied for it yet and you were just planning on applying for it sometime in the nearby future.

With all due respect - please read more carefully. I said "if F1 is issued".

Of course we "can" get married while he's here on F1, what I meant was we can't get married while he's on F1 without breaking the requirements of pending K1 petition and in fact the requirements of F1 status if it's done in less than 90 days after arrival on F1.

Whatever...as stated I'm done.

Thanks for all your help and support.

[LandRStepp 0]

Just a note why use an f1 when you have to go home for 2 years it doesn't make sense to me. I just think you should do the k1. Just my opinion but the government will turn you down for the littlest things. I say don't mess with it take the k1 and go to school when your done. I have researched until I'm almost blind from reading trying to find a way to be with my fiance and because i am a student here in Canada I was going to go that route before we decided we wanted to be together until I found out you have to go home for 2 years. Anyway good luck and hope what ever you decide everything goes really well for you!