Antarctica is warming

[Heracles 417]

Oh, and these PH.ds' that depend on grants for a living, pretty much say what the grantor wants them to say, otherwise, they don't get grants. How do I know this? Been part of my daily life.

Have a new respect for whores, they only rent out their bodies, but see people sell out not only their bodies, but hearts, mind, and soul as well. Anything to make a buck.

There are other American Ph.D.'s who have spent their career in industry designing, manufacturing, selling, and *exporting* pollution control equipment to Europe, Japan, even places like China, Thailand, and India, where markets were created for those products by stricter environmental regulation than we have here in the USA for the same devices (primarily motorcycles, diesel vehicles, and power plants). Those American scientists have marvelled at how wing nuts here complain about how strict environmental and safety regulations destroy the ability of the USA to compete economically. American vehicles have the worst fuel economy in the world, but they are not the safest, nor are they the cleanest or the cheapest. It would appear that those markets that have bought these products have, on the whole, done quite fine competitively, in spite of stricter environmental and safety regulation.

But let's try to get back to the topic, NickD.

I agree there. Even as a right wing conservative I don't understand why anyone would be against a cleaner environment or industrial / technological progress in general. I hope people realize that pollution directly effects your life span. I don't know about anyone else but my quality of life is more important that the extra cost of producing something for a company.

It is all about government regulation. The free market fails in this. Overseas we even have CO2 emissions on our fuel economy labels. The labels also stand out for everyone to see. Forcing manufacturers to up the ante of efficiency. We also have cleaner and more efficient fuel. The Octane of regular starts at 93 and goes to 98. Clean Diesels are extremely popular and come in a range of vehicles. I spoke to a fella who works for the federal government with regards to transportation and he said to me the only reason that we don't have more diesel cars here is because we have higher quality fuel which the European engines cannot process.

Here is a sample of the label must be on every vehicle displayed and sold.

Edited January 22, 2009 by Aficionado

[nowhereman 1]

Oh, and these PH.ds' that depend on grants for a living, pretty much say what the grantor wants them to say, otherwise, they don't get grants. How do I know this? Been part of my daily life.

Have a new respect for whores, they only rent out their bodies, but see people sell out not only their bodies, but hearts, mind, and soul as well. Anything to make a buck.

There are other American Ph.D.'s who have spent their career in industry designing, manufacturing, selling, and *exporting* pollution control equipment to Europe, Japan, even places like China, Thailand, and India, where markets were created for those products by stricter environmental regulation than we have here in the USA for the same devices (primarily motorcycles, diesel vehicles, and power plants). Those American scientists have marvelled at how wing nuts here complain about how strict environmental and safety regulations destroy the ability of the USA to compete economically. American vehicles have the worst fuel economy in the world, but they are not the safest, nor are they the cleanest or the cheapest. It would appear that those markets that have bought these products have, on the whole, done quite fine competitively, in spite of stricter environmental and safety regulation.

But let's try to get back to the topic, NickD.

I agree there. Even as a right wing conservative I don't understand why anyone would be against a cleaner environment or industrial / technological progress in general. I hope people realize that pollution directly effects your life span. I don't know about anyone else but my quality of life is more important that the extra cost of producing something for a company.

It is all about government regulation. The free market fails in this. Overseas we even have CO2 emissions on our fuel economy labels. The labels also stand out for everyone to see. Forcing manufacturers to up the ante of efficiency. We also have cleaner and more efficient fuel. The Octane of regular starts at 93 and goes to 98. Clean Diesels are extremely popular and come in a range of vehicles. I spoke to a fella who works for the federal government with regards to transportation and he said to me the only reason that we don't have more diesel cars here is because we have higher quality fuel which the European engines cannot process.

Here is a sample of the label must be on every vehicle displayed and sold.

A clean environment affects everyone... right wingers, moderates & liberals. It shouldn't be a political issue at all.

[Heracles 417]

Here are appliance energy efficiency labels: European label clearly kicks ####.

US:

Australia:

Europe:

[Rocky_nBullwinkle 6]

You guys are more knowledgable than I on this subject so please tell me where all the melted ice went. Is it in the air? How come sea levels haven't risen dramatically yet?

Rising sea levels is a combination of fallacy and fact. The earth is constantly bombarded by materials left over from the creation of the solar system. Most of that is water in the form of ice. There is even evidence to show that this is the source of a significant amount, if not the majority of water on the planet. Our atmosphere and magnetic fields prevent this water from evaporating back into space faster than it is replenished.

Ice that is floating will not increase sea levels. Put ice in a glass with enough water to float the ice. Mark the glass at the starting water level, and let the ice melt. The level will not rise in the glass, since ice is less dense than water, and that is why it floats.

Glacial ice when it melts will increase the sea levels. There is some dispute how much water that really represents, but not near as much as Al Gore speculates. That is one point where most credible scientists depart from the commonly accepted doom scenario.

As the atmoshphere heats, there will be some thermal expansion. As the earths core cools, there will be the opposite effect. The earth's core heat controls much more of the water in deeper seas, than the shallower seas controlled by the atmoshpere. It is a push-pull effect that is disputed, but the total effect is probably neglible.

As the atmosphere warms, then evaporation will remove much of the surface water, but that will be returned as precipatation. Increased temperatures and the release of sequestered carbon will increase plant growth significantly, and that will account for some of the water.

Bottom line, there are lots of variables to consider, and I have yet to see a credible study that accounts for all the variables.

--Bullwinkle

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

all of those who believe co2 causes global warming should stop talking. if the situation gets worse, you'll be asked to stop breathing too.

[alienlovechild 75]

Finally, somebody answered my stupid question.

Glacial ice when it melts will increase the sea levels. There is some dispute how much water that really represents, but not near as much as Al Gore speculates. That is one point where most credible scientists depart from the commonly accepted doom scenario.

I was trying to figure that one out. If so much of the polar ice caps are gone now, where are the major floods of coastal cities? So Gore

was exaggerating? How can that be? He got a Nobel Prize.

As the atmosphere warms, then evaporation will remove much of the surface water, but that will be returned as precipatation. Increased temperatures and the release of sequestered carbon will increase plant growth significantly, and that will account for some of the water.

Great. More rain and better plant growth.

[NickD 202]

all of those who believe co2 causes global warming should stop talking. if the situation gets worse, you'll be asked to stop breathing too.

I prefer this theory on global warming, after all it's all theory.

As everyone is well aware of, good people die and go UP to heaven, bad people die and go DOWN to hell.

Sure must be a lot of bad people, the fires of hell down below are sure kicking up.

And that is why we have global warming, if we even are having global warming.

Where is Hal9000 when you need him? Need his input, computer does not compute, insufficient data.

[SAT 9,609]

all of those who believe co2 causes global warming should stop talking. if the situation gets worse, you'll be asked to stop breathing too.

I prefer this theory on global warming, after all it's all theory.

As everyone is well aware of, good people die and go UP to heaven, bad people die and go DOWN to hell.

Sure must be a lot of bad people, the fires of hell down below are sure kicking up.

And that is why we have global warming, if we even are having global warming.

Where is Hal9000 when you need him? Need his input, computer does not compute, insufficient data.

Nostradamus predicted the melting of the polar ice cap.........and the collapse of BSC........

[NickD 202]

all of those who believe co2 causes global warming should stop talking. if the situation gets worse, you'll be asked to stop breathing too.

I prefer this theory on global warming, after all it's all theory.

As everyone is well aware of, good people die and go UP to heaven, bad people die and go DOWN to hell.

Sure must be a lot of bad people, the fires of hell down below are sure kicking up.

And that is why we have global warming, if we even are having global warming.

Where is Hal9000 when you need him? Need his input, computer does not compute, insufficient data.

Nostradamus predicted the melting of the polar ice cap.........and the collapse of BSC........

Ha, read about the predictions of Nostradamus, generalized statements that can be related to historical events depending on both the mood and ideologies of the interpreter. But how can anyone predict the future when the future doesn't even exist? And to predict future events infers predestination that contradicts the free will of mankind. Just a convenient way to run in circles.

With MCS condition, (multiple chemical sensitivities) prefer avoiding large populated areas, primarily due to vehicular emissions. Your so-called fresh air intake is not fresh air with the guy ahead of you exhaust pipe as the input not to mention both sides of you, behind, over and under in some areas. That alone is reason for concern for burning HC's in large quanties. If the EPA wants accurate fuel economy ratings, should go to any major city and measure the amount of fuel consumed during rush hours, and rush hours are extending to 24 hours a day in some areas. While HC, C, CO, and NOx lab ratings have declined, least lab wise, the vast increase in vehicles more than compensated for that.

There has to be a better way, even under the best conditions our vehicles are only about 15% efficient, more like 2% in traffic jams, a huge majority of our fuels for transportation is going up in heat. That is not very good.

[Peikko 1,575]

That's the thing that gets me, so many people are keen to discredit global warming for no other reason than to continue drive their cars in the way they have always done. It doesn't take an Einstein to understand that there are many, many more problems and pollutants associated with cars than whether or not they are contributing to man made global warming.

[SAT 9,609]

all of those who believe co2 causes global warming should stop talking. if the situation gets worse, you'll be asked to stop breathing too.

I prefer this theory on global warming, after all it's all theory.

As everyone is well aware of, good people die and go UP to heaven, bad people die and go DOWN to hell.

Sure must be a lot of bad people, the fires of hell down below are sure kicking up.

And that is why we have global warming, if we even are having global warming.

Where is Hal9000 when you need him? Need his input, computer does not compute, insufficient data.

Nostradamus predicted the melting of the polar ice cap.........and the collapse of BSC........

Ha, read about the predictions of Nostradamus, generalized statements that can be related to historical events depending on both the mood and ideologies of the interpreter. But how can anyone predict the future when the future doesn't even exist? And to predict future events infers predestination that contradicts the free will of mankind. Just a convenient way to run in circles.

With MCS condition, (multiple chemical sensitivities) prefer avoiding large populated areas, primarily due to vehicular emissions. Your so-called fresh air intake is not fresh air with the guy ahead of you exhaust pipe as the input not to mention both sides of you, behind, over and under in some areas. That alone is reason for concern for burning HC's in large quanties. If the EPA wants accurate fuel economy ratings, should go to any major city and measure the amount of fuel consumed during rush hours, and rush hours are extending to 24 hours a day in some areas. While HC, C, CO, and NOx lab ratings have declined, least lab wise, the vast increase in vehicles more than compensated for that.

There has to be a better way, even under the best conditions our vehicles are only about 15% efficient, more like 2% in traffic jams, a huge majority of our fuels for transportation is going up in heat. That is not very good.

Nostradamus predicted that there'd be too much CO2 in out atmosphere..........

[Peikko 1,575]

I listened to a piece on NPR about the warming of Antarctica. Apparently the data they were using to assess the validity or otherwise of that hypothesis could be compared to assessing the likely temperature of Arizona using data gleaned from NY. In other words, not enough information

[NickD 202]

I listened to a piece on NPR about the warming of Antarctica. Apparently the data they were using to assess the validity or otherwise of that hypothesis could be compared to assessing the likely temperature of Arizona using data gleaned from NY. In other words, not enough information

You certainly don't want to run the engine in a closed garage, even for a short period, you will be dead. That has got to be a minor hint about our vehicles.

[Ban Hammer 12,861]

so if antarctica is really melting, do we all get a pet penguin?

[NickD 202]

so if antarctica is really melting, do we all get a pet penguin?

We will take up a collection and send them suntan oil.