I just HAD to say something ...

[Veiled Princess 1]

and in this corner...gimy, aka the vj mauler. and the challenger, veiledprincess, aka the scimitar

what is that?

[Ban Hammer 14,164]

and in this corner...gimy, aka the vj mauler. and the challenger, veiledprincess, aka the scimitar

what is that?

a scimitar is a sword - the best i could do at the time.

[Veiled Princess 1]

so by your own admission, violence is an answer for you and an acceptable method of punishment ... obviously our views greatly differ.

my children have never and (doubtful now since they are 7 & 9) will never throw a tantrum. i value my children as human beings ... hands are for loving NOT for hitting. there are FAR better solutions than to resort to physically hurting your child.

Hmmm... let me ponder on that for a moment... is violence ever an answer and an appropriate punishment?.... YES.. I guess if you were being raped you would just lie there and take it like a good little girl? I for one would punch, kick, bite, poke and pull anything I could grab.

Now, since we were talking about me (possibly) backhanding a grown adult for talking nastily towards me I answered in regards to dealing with a grown person doing something to me. And I said possibly which means the thought would deffinately have crossed my mind and depending on how much self control I have on that day, I would either restrain myself and tell them to back off or backhand them like I said.

When dealing with my children I would never backhand them or any other child for that matter but if they are being particularly insane at the moment a swift pat on the butt never hurt any child.

I think it's great that you have the fairytale children that we all dream of, who you've never had to discipline or speak ill to or even raise an eyebrow at but unfortunetly the rest of us live in the real world and not in lala land so we don't have those kids here.

My kids are GREAT and wonderful and smart and sweet and I love them more than anything in this world. If anyone ever did anything to hurt either one of them I would act in a vengful manner like a mother lioness defending her cubs but they do get discipline and will continue to until I'm not longer in this world. Why? Because I love them so much and I want them to learn that you can't act like a psycho or a shrew in public (or private for that matter) anytime they feel the urge.

[babybunny 2]

well ... we went out to a local restaurant tonight for dinner. geoff, nico, gabriella and i were all chitter-chattering along about our day and what not while sipping on our drinks. next thing i know ... actually hear is some woman saying to her little girl 'in that tone' "KNOCK it off" ... she tried to say it low & mean. of course i glanced over only to see the mom getting up and going to sit down next to her little girl.

she grabbed the little girl by the arm and leaned in to again verbally reprimand her. the mother was really upset that she wasn't eating/didn't want to eat. she was telling her that she 'WAS going to eat'. by now the little children is in tears and the mother's getting more upset because she's crying and telling her to stop crying.

my children are now in shock because they know that this isn't acceptable behavior. we spoke to the children about how some people choose to parent their children. i would say though ... it was extremely difficult for me to sit and listen to this mother berate her little girl, she couldn't have been older than 6.

our food arrived and the waitress could see that i was visibly upset. the manager and waitress, as well as other patrons were staring at this lady. i absolutely can not ever tolerate child abuse ... even verbal. geoff asked if i wanted to just change our order to go and get some boxes, but i tried to keep it together and we stayed.

then this mother tries to force feed her little girl and she starts to gag ... she's yelling at her to stop it and to drink some water. the little girl can't drink the water and her mom uses that awful low & mean threatening voice to drink the water and if she chokes again she will smash her.

welp ... i lost it then. i grabbed my wallet & car keys, told geoff and the children to get our food to go and i walked over to the table. *heart beat .... heart beat ... heart beat ...*

me: excuse ma'am i can see that you are having a very frustrating time with your daughter, but i am appalled at the level of abuse you are willing to subject your little defenseless child to. if you would like i can shove some food down your mouth and then force you to drink as well while you're crying.

she actually looks at me and says: what are you talking about!?!? (and you guys KNOW how i feel about ignorance!! UGH!!)

me: i'm talking about the fear that you are using to try and control your daughter with. she's a little child and deserves love, compassion and understanding.

she continues to feign ignorance and then asks: what did i do?

me: force feeding her, threatening her not to choke again or you will smash her.

her: oh i don't think i said that

me: it's not surprising that you don't remember saying something in your fit of anger. but regardless, enjoy your dinner because you have completely upset ours.

the manager and waitress came over to me apologizing profusely but i know it's not their fault. so we paid and left.

i felt that i had maintained my composure when talking to this scumbag although i was quite teary and emotional. geoff being english would have rather that i didn't say anything but supported me all the way. the children were over the moon that i said something ... nico wanted to say a few things of his own but he was waiting in the car.

all in all i feel really good for standing up and speaking my mind ... it's who i am. but this was the first time that it was somewhere very public and with my children around. we had a family discussion about it afterwards. we explained that even though i said something ... the woman would not change and she would most likely continue to treat her daughter in that fashion.

anyway .... it was on my mind after putting my 2 lovely cherubs to bed.

*rant off*

oh wowowooww hats off gimmy!!!

[gimygirl 0]

so by your own admission, violence is an answer for you and an acceptable method of punishment ... obviously our views greatly differ.

I think it's great that you have the fairytale children that we all dream of, who you've never had to discipline or speak ill to or even raise an eyebrow at but unfortunetly the rest of us live in the real world and not in lala land so we don't have those kids here.

it's interesting what you incorrectly deduce from words i've never spoken(written). i'm clueless as to what hat you've pulled from that i've never disciplined my children. discipline is not synonymous with hitting in our house.

the fact that you can't envision a reality where you don't need to hit your children, for them to behave or learn, does not mean that that reality can't exist for other loving parents.

[AngelK96 0]

I know as a registered nurse it is my obligation by the law to report suspected child abuse. Child abuse comes in all forms physical, verbal, and psychological . If it affected you that much you did the right by saying what you did, but you should have also called the police or child protection services and let them follow up on it.

[sarah and hicham 3]

I know as a registered nurse it is my obligation by the law to report suspected child abuse. Child abuse comes in all forms physical, verbal, and psychological . If it affected you that much you did the right by saying what you did, but you should have also called the police or child protection services and let them follow up on it.

ditto minus being the registered nurse part. If this was abuse then you should have called someone to follow up on it.

[babybunny 2]

so by your own admission, violence is an answer for you and an acceptable method of punishment ... obviously our views greatly differ.

my children have never and (doubtful now since they are 7 & 9) will never throw a tantrum. i value my children as human beings ... hands are for loving NOT for hitting. there are FAR better solutions than to resort to physically hurting your child.

Hmmm... let me ponder on that for a moment... is violence ever an answer and an appropriate punishment?.... YES.. I guess if you were being raped you would just lie there and take it like a good little girl? I for one would punch, kick, bite, poke and pull anything I could grab.

Now, since we were talking about me (possibly) backhanding a grown adult for talking nastily towards me I answered in regards to dealing with a grown person doing something to me. And I said possibly which means the thought would deffinately have crossed my mind and depending on how much self control I have on that day, I would either restrain myself and tell them to back off or backhand them like I said.

When dealing with my children I would never backhand them or any other child for that matter but if they are being particularly insane at the moment a swift pat on the butt never hurt any child.

I think it's great that you have the fairytale children that we all dream of, who you've never had to discipline or speak ill to or even raise an eyebrow at but unfortunetly the rest of us live in the real world and not in lala land so we don't have those kids here.

My kids are GREAT and wonderful and smart and sweet and I love them more than anything in this world. If anyone ever did anything to hurt either one of them I would act in a vengful manner like a mother lioness defending her cubs but they do get discipline and will continue to until I'm not longer in this world. Why? Because I love them so much and I want them to learn that you can't act like a psycho or a shrew in public (or private for that matter) anytime they feel the urge.

what the hell is this sh it?

your thoughts are ping - ponging all over the place. dayum

when you are defending yourself from an attacker. pick something heavy and chop the hell out of them. then run like hell. Since we are not talking about some attacker. we are talking about how you treat your kids. -hitting them is not the way.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

the fact that you can't envision a reality where you don't need to hit your children, for them to behave or learn, does not mean that that reality can't exist for other loving parents.

I grew up in a very traditional Indian family, not hitting your children was just unheard of. Parents of my generation in my family are more lenient but measured and predictable physical punishment is still expected. Heck, in my school in India we had "general caning" day when every boy above the 6th grade (it was a K-12 school) was caned once. It didn't hurt though but we had to say thank you after or it happened again.

After all that, I'm not a violent person (one fight in my whole life, a lot less than msot guys my age) and I don't hate my parents nor do they hate me. Nothin' but love, baby, nothin but love, lol.

I personally find it a little ironic that with the family structure in the West being such a mess, they have the gall to lecture the rest of the world on how to run a family. JMHO, of course.

[babybunny 2]

I know as a registered nurse it is my obligation by the law to report suspected child abuse. Child abuse comes in all forms physical, verbal, and psychological . If it affected you that much you did the right by saying what you did, but you should have also called the police or child protection services and let them follow up on it.

I was abused as a child. I also reported it. The abuser also got time in Jail!!!!!

vilolence is not the way.

[Aymerlu 3]

Since I was not actually there, I really don't know how I would reacted, but just how the situation was described I would have either said something to to the mother or to the manager of the resturant. I seem to be the mother always getting the comments thrown out at her while in public......so that's why I would hesiatate to say anything. See......my son is 11 and is autistic. All his life I have had to deal with people making comments to him and I about how he is acting in the stores/resturants. I cannot even begin to even think how many times this has happened. Let me explain his behavior to you first. He's the type of child that when happy, will "WHOOP, WHOOP" through the mall while holding my hand. When hearing loud noises, will cover his ears and get into a ball regardless of where he is (although this is getting much better), will actually vomit if he sees something on his plate that "does not look right." Once in a grocery store he kept running out in front of carts because he thought it was funny. I will add the reason of this behavor was because I told him we were doing A,B,C that day and I did A,C,B......just not right in his mind so it really messed him up. Anyway, I would tell him to give me his hand and I would place it on the grocery cart. Also keep in mind that I have to word everything in a certain way BECAUSE after I had told him this twice, he ran in front of another cart and I say "jump over here and grab this cart!" So what do you think he did? JUMPED over to me and GRABBED the cart! Then I had a couple say "look how that child acts in public and his mother allows it! THEN the couple followed me around the store!!!! I have had people point blank walk up to our table while he is stacking his 10 little coffee creamers up in a pile, while he is having a conversation with himself, and tell me that I need to think about if I should bring him out to public places! Hello? He is human....and as far as I know, his stacking of the 10 coffee creamers and chuckling when they fall into a pile is not their business. One of his case workers got some little cards explaining autism for me so now when people make comments about him while we are out, I just pull out one of the cards, kindly hand it to them and smile. Then they can feel like fools for the comments they make. I'm his mother, I love him and I have worked my a$$ off to make him the child he is today. I have had doctors tell me he would never ride a bike, never write, never be affectionate, but he has overcome all of that! He recently even received an award at his 5th grade graduation for "Best reader in his class!"

Gimy, being a nurse as myself I'm sure was also using her nursing judgement as well, just as I do in sitiuations. I don't know the woman, what was going on in her day etc, but no child deserves to be treated like that.

OH.....and since I'm so proud of my little man.....here's a pic!

[Veiled Princess 1]

it's interesting what you incorrectly deduce from words i've never spoken(written). i'm clueless as to what hat you've pulled from that i've never disciplined my children. discipline is not synonymous with hitting in our house.

the fact that you can't envision a reality where you don't need to hit your children, for them to behave or learn, does not mean that that reality can't exist for other loving parents.

I don't appreciate the implication that I am not a loving parent because I spank my kids on rare occassion.

All I am saying is that not all kids are the same. Not everyone has your kids. There are kids who you can talk to and put in time out until the moon turns to blood but it won't do a thing. Occassionaly some kids need a spanking and the parent is not a tyrant for doing so. The main point here is that it is her business how she chooses to discipline her child. If she was doing something harmful to the child you should have reported it to the proper authorities who would have investigated the situation further since you really had no idea what their situation was other than what you witnessed. I had my rearend swatted many a time in my childhood and I'm not damaged because of it. In fact, I think I turned out pretty OK.

what the hell is this sh it?

your thoughts are ping - ponging all over the place. dayum

when you are defending yourself from an attacker. pick something heavy and chop the hell out of them. then run like hell. Since we are not talking about some attacker. we are talking about how you treat your kids. -hitting them is not the way.

No, she called me violent because I said I would smack a grown person for talking out of line to me. It was not about my kids at all.

[Fandango 1,440]

I think the main issue is that by Gimy's own actions, she proves it wasn't abuse at all.

Edited June 5, 2006 by LisaD

[almaty 19]

the fact that you can't envision a reality where you don't need to hit your children, for them to behave or learn, does not mean that that reality can't exist for other loving parents.

I grew up in a very traditional Indian family, not hitting your children was just unheard of. Parents of my generation in my family are more lenient but measured and predictable physical punishment is still expected. Heck, in my school in India we had "general caning" day when every boy above the 6th grade (it was a K-12 school) was caned once. It didn't hurt though but we had to say thank you after or it happened again.

After all that, I'm not a violent person (one fight in my whole life, a lot less than msot guys my age) and I don't hate my parents nor do they hate me. Nothin' but love, baby, nothin but love, lol.

I personally find it a little ironic that with the family structure in the West being such a mess, they have the gall to lecture the rest of the world on how to run a family. JMHO, of course.

total agreement arijit..we have no right to lecture the world

p.s.,,,damn, this thread needs to go away...

[crazyinEgypt 0]

Sorry, I hate to comment on a thread that's been going on forever, but I haven't been around in a few days to read this. I will have to say that depending on culture, discipline is viewed differently. My family is indian and my dad wouldn't hesitate to pop my backside with a belt if I deserved it and no one would say a thing about it. Did it hurt me? Not at all. I learned to respect my father and his disciplinary actions made me into the strong woman I am today. In the states if you gently slap your childs butt or hands you have the DFS knocking on your door. Could be what's wrong with the kids today.

Being in Egypt for almost 6 months I have seen many kids and the kids here actually respect their parents. I never have seen a child back talk their parents or any other adults, and I have never seen a parent yelling or screaming at their child. Just a different world here and I hate to say it, but I like it.