Russian news agency: Tskhinvali has been destroyed, 2000 dead

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Is that 2,000 civilian or military battle deaths?

"Dozens of Russian warplanes bombed civilian and military targets"

"Frankly, we have not expected the Russian invaders to hit our residential buildings, to hit our peaceful cities, to hit our peaceful citizens,"

DId you happen to skip the part where Georgian "Grad" leveled the whole city? Leaving 1600 dead?

My point is it has to be 1,000 military battle deaths before it is considered a war. Other wise it's something entirely different.

[aidan80 9]

I don't know about the rest of ye but I for one believe Russia is actually doing the right thing.. Apparently there's a wee area inside Georgia called Abkhazia that's been all but independent from Georgia since the early 1990's and now all of a sudden Georgia thinks.. ok lets get back in there and retake the place with a surprise attack? Apparently there's a lot of people in the place holding Russian passports and the Russians are supportive of their right to be independent of Georgia yet a lot of people on here seem to be shocked when the Russians actually move in?

I'm a firm supporter of freedom, justice and peace but if you throw the first punch you have to expect retaliation? I mean it's wrong and sickening that people are and will be murdered over there but this is what happens when people use force before diplomacy or when they sneak about like this.

I'm sure of one thing, the Russian will liberate/capture the area and quickly bring the Georgians under control. I mean you can't just take on a superpower alone and expect to win?

[Brad and Vika 129]

I don't know about the rest of ye but I for one believe Russia is actually doing the right thing.. Apparently there's a wee area inside Georgia called Abkhazia that's been all but independent from Georgia since the early 1990's and now all of a sudden Georgia thinks.. ok lets get back in there and retake the place with a surprise attack? Apparently there's a lot of people in the place holding Russian passports and the Russians are supportive of their right to be independent of Georgia yet a lot of people on here seem to be shocked when the Russians actually move in?

I'm a firm supporter of freedom, justice and peace but if you throw the first punch you have to expect retaliation? I mean it's wrong and sickening that people are and will be murdered over there but this is what happens when people use force before diplomacy or when they sneak about like this.

I'm sure of one thing, the Russian will liberate/capture the area and quickly bring the Georgians under control. I mean you can't just take on a superpower alone and expect to win?

The conflict is in Ossetia

[Pooky 3,929]

South Ossetia and Abkhazia are Georgian sovereign soil. Russia is in the process of invading another country. And you're saying it's wrong for Georgia to take on separatists within its own borders? Remember Chechnya and the mess there. Didn't seem to concern the Russians that they were bombing and shooting civilians there.

As for timing this assault to coincide with the Olympics, the world is a much different place now than it was in 1956, with the British and French fiasco in the Suez served as a perfect distraction for the Soviet invasion of Hungary. Now we have instant access to news and the world is watching Russia throwing its weight around again. This time, maybe Russia will not get away with it.

For those who cast doubt on the value of NATO, dream on if you think isolationism will work in the 21st Century. You make friends in this world, then you defend them and they defend you. Afghanistan is a NATO operation.

In the end, it all boils down to one thing. Oil. If the Georgian had their way, the oil that passes through their territory would be routed down through Turkey. Russia is peeved at this thought, as they would lose control, so they are out to teach the Georgians a lesson in power. No oil, no Russian support of the Georgian separatists. End of.

P

Typical western logic. And there is no OIL pipeline in Osetia. These theories are seriously out of the blue, no proof. Its almost as bad as George Bush caused 9/11 so he could attack Iraq...

No, the oil pipeline is in Georgia. The Russians want it to go North into Russia, the Georgians want it to go South into Turkey. South Ossetia and Abkhazia are just a convenient excuse for Russia to flex its muscle and dictate to Georgia where the pipeline will go. Don't kid yourself that Russia would give a toss if the pipeline wasn't there.

And if Russia is supporting South Ossetia and now Abkhazia, why is the Russian Air Force bombing towns in Georgia?

[HAL 9000 96]

Another reason why the USA should shun these additions to NATO which clearly are symbolic, but put the USA into military obligations which are of dubious strategic interests to America. Probably another reason why the USA should rethink its military obligations from these treaties. Are we really getting any bang for our buck?

Georgia among other former USSR and Warsaw Pact nations have or wish to join NATO.

In other words...are you willing to die to defend Georgia? Are you willing to die to defend Europe? That is what these treaties obligate us to do.

Well Georgia currently is willing to put its troops on the line for our folly in Iraq.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Another reason why the USA should shun these additions to NATO which clearly are symbolic, but put the USA into military obligations which are of dubious strategic interests to America. Probably another reason why the USA should rethink its military obligations from these treaties. Are we really getting any bang for our buck?

Georgia among other former USSR and Warsaw Pact nations have or wish to join NATO.

In other words...are you willing to die to defend Georgia? Are you willing to die to defend Europe? That is what these treaties obligate us to do.

Well Georgia currently is willing to put its troops on the line for our folly in Iraq.

Not any more - they have been recalled to fight Russians in Ossetia as of this morning.

[HAL 9000 96]

Another reason why the USA should shun these additions to NATO which clearly are symbolic, but put the USA into military obligations which are of dubious strategic interests to America. Probably another reason why the USA should rethink its military obligations from these treaties. Are we really getting any bang for our buck?

Georgia among other former USSR and Warsaw Pact nations have or wish to join NATO.

In other words...are you willing to die to defend Georgia? Are you willing to die to defend Europe? That is what these treaties obligate us to do.

Well Georgia currently is willing to put its troops on the line for our folly in Iraq.

Not any more - they have been recalled to fight Russians in Ossetia as of this morning.

Yeah I heard they requested an emergency US Airlift home. Lets see if they actually get it.

Hopefully national sovereignty is respected on this one...

[Pooky 3,929]

I don't know about the rest of ye but I for one believe Russia is actually doing the right thing.. Apparently there's a wee area inside Georgia called Abkhazia that's been all but independent from Georgia since the early 1990's and now all of a sudden Georgia thinks.. ok lets get back in there and retake the place with a surprise attack? Apparently there's a lot of people in the place holding Russian passports and the Russians are supportive of their right to be independent of Georgia yet a lot of people on here seem to be shocked when the Russians actually move in?

I'm a firm supporter of freedom, justice and peace but if you throw the first punch you have to expect retaliation? I mean it's wrong and sickening that people are and will be murdered over there but this is what happens when people use force before diplomacy or when they sneak about like this.

I'm sure of one thing, the Russian will liberate/capture the area and quickly bring the Georgians under control. I mean you can't just take on a superpower alone and expect to win?

So, it's okay to supply arms and other "support" to separatists/terrorists and then, when the government of the separatist region tries to do something to regain control, invade the country?

Again, it's just a pretext for Russia to show Georgia what power really is.

[aidan80 9]

The conflict is in Ossetia

Na.. I mean I'd never of known that.. it's just all over the news isn't it? I was just trying to bring more information into the discussion other than the opinion that what ever the Russians are doing is wrong?

[Brad and Vika 129]

The conflict is in Ossetia

Na.. I mean I'd never of known that.. it's just all over the news isn't it? I was just trying to bring more information into the discussion other than the opinion that what ever the Russians are doing is wrong?

IMO it is wrong. There is another thread (see post #12) where we have been over much of that ground. Every sovereign nation should be able to manage all of its territory regardless of the size of its neighbors.

[HAL 9000 96]

The conflict is in Ossetia

Na.. I mean I'd never of known that.. it's just all over the news isn't it? I was just trying to bring more information into the discussion other than the opinion that what ever the Russians are doing is wrong?

IMO it is wrong. There is another thread (see post #12) where we have been over much of that ground. Every sovereign nation should be able to manage all of its territory regardless of the size of its neighbors.

So many nations could learn so much...

[Scott & Lai 12]

The conflict is in Ossetia

Na.. I mean I'd never of known that.. it's just all over the news isn't it? I was just trying to bring more information into the discussion other than the opinion that what ever the Russians are doing is wrong?

Aidan, FYI, you might want to do a little research on the proper use of the guestion mark

[IAMX 3,055]

Every sovereign nation should be able to manage all of its territory regardless of the size of its neighbors.

Iraq is and has been a sovereign nation.

Edited August 10, 2008 by SRVT

[Brad and Vika 129]

Every sovereign nation should be able to manage all of its territory regardless of the size of its neighbors.

Iraq is and has been a sovereign nation.

Agreed. International intervention and peacekeeping was necessary in Kuwait and Kosovo, but not in Iraq. Unilateral liberation or "peacekeeping" is criminal.

[Ilya R. 0]

Every sovereign nation should be able to manage all of its territory regardless of the size of its neighbors.

Iraq is and has been a sovereign nation.

Agreed. International intervention and peacekeeping was necessary in Kuwait and Kosovo, but not in Iraq. Unilateral liberation or "peacekeeping" is criminal.

Why did Kosovo deserved it?