DHS is allowed to take a traveler's laptop for an unspecified period of time without suspicion of actual wrongdoing

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed.

Also, officials may share copies of the laptop's contents with other agencies and private entities for language translation, data decryption or other reasons, according to the policies, dated July 16 and issued by two DHS agencies, U.S. Customs and Border Protection and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

"The policies . . . are truly alarming," said Sen. Russell Feingold (D-Wis.), who is probing the government's border search practices. He said he intends to introduce legislation soon that would require reasonable suspicion for border searches, as well as prohibit profiling on race, religion or national origin.

DHS officials said that the newly disclosed policies -- which apply to anyone entering the country, including U.S. citizens -- are reasonable and necessary to prevent terrorism. Officials said such procedures have long been in place but were disclosed last month because of public interest in the matter.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/conte...01/laptops.html

[pedroh 21]

gotta love big brother!!!

land of the free!

[Ban Hammer 14,586]

gotta love big brother!!!

land of the free!

in other news, laptop sales plummet.

[S and S 12]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

-Benjamin Franklin

I think a certain amount of security is, of course, necessary, but when you start harrassing people without just cause and no accountability, the idea of liberty begins to diminish.

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

-Benjamin Franklin

I think a certain amount of security is, of course, necessary, but when you start harrassing people without just cause and no accountability, the idea of liberty begins to diminish.

begins to?

[Niels Bohr 72]

Federal agents may take a traveler's laptop or other electronic device to an off-site location for an unspecified period of time without any suspicion of wrongdoing, as part of border search policies the Department of Homeland Security recently disclosed.

Another reason for them to use so that they will not be responsible for returning it back to you.

[mRx 16]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

-Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin Franklin lived in a time where the enemy wore a uniform, and fought in a line formation against our uniformed combatants.

Fast forward to the 21st century.

Are the extra security measures employed today to protect America really diminishing the essential liberties that Franklin spoke of?

[S and S 12]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

-Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin Franklin lived in a time where the enemy wore a uniform, and fought in a line formation against our uniformed combatants.

Fast forward to the 21st century.

Are the extra security measures employed today to protect America really diminishing the essential liberties that Franklin spoke of?

I take it you have no problem if you are in an airport and you are held up for 8 or 9 hours in airport security for no reason and your laptop is taken and even once you are released they never tell you why they detained you in the first place. This actually happens frequently. One time there was even a female soldier on military orders to travel that was informed she had been put on the "no fly list". I never heard if she got off of it and they had no good reason to put her on it.

Do you really believe these things do not infringe on civil liberties at all?

[mRx 16]

"He who sacrifices freedom for security deserves neither."

-Benjamin Franklin

Benjamin Franklin lived in a time where the enemy wore a uniform, and fought in a line formation against our uniformed combatants.

Fast forward to the 21st century.

Are the extra security measures employed today to protect America really diminishing the essential liberties that Franklin spoke of?

I take it you have no problem if you are in an airport and you are held up for 8 or 9 hours in airport security for no reason and your laptop is taken and even once you are released they never tell you why they detained you in the first place. This actually happens frequently. One time there was even a female soldier on military orders to travel that was informed she had been put on the "no fly list". I never heard if she got off of it and they had no good reason to put her on it.

Do you really believe these things do not infringe on civil liberties at all?

We really have no grounds to question the performance of DHS, do we? I think they have a very difficult and stressful job. How would you like to be in charge of making sure people who wish to do this country harm are not admitted?

If everyone got an answer to why they were being detained, one could easily come up with a list of things they look for. This is why I don't think they release that information, because it could compromise security, not because they are trying to be A-holes to people, sheesh.

You don't have to like these policies to see that they are necessary.

Would you prefer we fire all DHS employees, and give out free RPG launchers at POEs? Oh wait, you said you wanted "some" security. "Some" equaling "lax", I assume. Then when some other yahoo decides to hijack a plane or something, we can point the finger at DHS for being too lax!

Everyone's a National Security expert nowadays.... sigh

[one...two...tree 2,762]

We really have no grounds to question the performance of DHS, do we? I think they have a very difficult and stressful job. How would you like to be in charge of making sure people who wish to do this country harm are not admitted?

If everyone got an answer to why they were being detained, one could easily come up with a list of things they look for. This is why I don't think they release that information, because it could compromise security, not because they are trying to be A-holes to people, sheesh.

You don't have to like these policies to see that they are necessary.

Would you prefer we fire all DHS employees, and give out free RPG launchers at POEs? Oh wait, you said you wanted "some" security. "Some" equaling "lax", I assume. Then when some other yahoo decides to hijack a plane or something, we can point the finger at DHS for being too lax!

Everyone's a National Security expert nowadays.... sigh

Matt, without probable cause, a police officer, for example, cannot search your car after pulling you over, even if you were speeding. In order for that police officer to legally search your car without your permission, he would have to obtain a search warrant from a judge and that judge would decide if there is probable cause.

It doesn't require someone to be a security expert to see this as a violation of constitutional right to privacy. Hopefully, this will be challenged in the courts and declared unconstitutional. I don't want to live in a country where everyone of us is a potential terrorist suspect. Jurisprudence is what we all have a right to expect with regard to the laws and our Constitution.

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

[DeadPoolX 9]

Matt, without probable cause, a police officer, for example, cannot search your car after pulling you over, even if you were speeding. In order for that police officer to legally search your car without your permission, he would have to obtain a search warrant from a judge and that judge would decide if there is probable cause.

It doesn't require someone to be a security expert to see this as a violation of constitutional right to privacy. Hopefully, this will be challenged in the courts and declared unconstitutional. I don't want to live in a country where everyone of us is a potential terrorist suspect. Jurisprudence is what we all have a right to expect with regard to the laws and our Constitution.

Steven, I'm sorry to say that you are absolutely incorrect.

While police officers do need search warrants to enter homes without the owner's permission, the same is not true for vehicles. If a police officer feels he or she needs to search the car, they may do so with or without the owner's permission and do not require a search warrant.

[IAMX 3,055]

As a show of my approval of them hassling me, if they do, I'll make sure when bringing my laptop to visit Greece I'll have some sort of extreme scatological sex desktop wallpaper for their efforts. Yes. I'm an a-hole.

Edited August 3, 2008 by SRVT

[Dr. A ♥ O 203]

Matt, without probable cause, a police officer, for example, cannot search your car after pulling you over, even if you were speeding. In order for that police officer to legally search your car without your permission, he would have to obtain a search warrant from a judge and that judge would decide if there is probable cause.

It doesn't require someone to be a security expert to see this as a violation of constitutional right to privacy. Hopefully, this will be challenged in the courts and declared unconstitutional. I don't want to live in a country where everyone of us is a potential terrorist suspect. Jurisprudence is what we all have a right to expect with regard to the laws and our Constitution.

Steven, I'm sorry to say that you are absolutely incorrect.

While police officers do need search warrants to enter homes without the owner's permission, the same is not true for vehicles. If a police officer feels he or she needs to search the car, they may do so with or without the owner's permission and do not require a search warrant.

Bill HR6304:Physical Searches w/o Warrant @ its Sole Discretion, This may have passed June 21,2008

Edited August 3, 2008 by Olivia*

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah this does seem pretty dodgy - though I'll be interested to see if there are any court cases that come out of this to see what kind of problems people face as a result. Will you for example, be charged for the unlicensed software and media content you have on your machine?

Aside from Civil Liberties side of it there's also the question of how much integrity individual employees will have. Will the DHS be financially accountable if your laptop is lost or damaged, or the data wiped off?

Presumably someone else has experienced "the treatment" by the TSA - where you open your bag at the other end and discover its been rifled through - with all your neatly folded clothes thrown in haphazard and jammed in. On the top of the mess you get a calling card which basically says your bag has been searched but that if anything is missing or damaged they aren't responsible.

Back in 2005 - there was a big scandal at the Ontario airport in Cali when it was discovered that TSA employees were using their search powers to steal people's stuff. They have a claim service now - apparently...

Edited August 3, 2008 by Number 6