Malaysian Religious Wedding then Fiance Visa to US for Legal Wedding?

[Prof 0]

June '08

My Malaysian Fiance and I (a US citizen living in the states) are considering 3 options:

- A quick trip by me to Malaysia in July/August '08 for a quick registration & religious marriage in Malaysia so I can apply for a Spousal visa, in hopes that she could move to the States around January/March '09... BUT her family may object to a rushed ceremony

- Applying for a Fiance visa for her now (June/July '08)... having a religious ceremony in Malaysia in November/December '08... and then her traveling to the States on the fiance visa around December/February '09 for a legal ceremony here... BUT is there a risk of her fiance visa being invalidated?

- Having a religious ceremony in Malaysia in November/December '08... then applying for a Spousal visa and and waiting until May/July '09 for her to be able to come here... Least risk, longest wait? It seems that is the way of the world re: Visas, no?

Ideas? Suggestions? Cautions? Coffee, Tea, Cigarettes? ;-)
Thanks!

[sheraz 0]

June '08

My Malaysian Fiance and I (a US citizen living in the states) are considering 3 options:

- A quick trip by me to Malaysia in July/August '08 for a quick registration & religious marriage in Malaysia so I can apply for a Spousal visa, in hopes that she could move to the States around January/March '09... BUT her family may object to a rushed ceremony

- Applying for a Fiance visa for her now (June/July '08)... having a religious ceremony in Malaysia in November/December '08... and then her traveling to the States on the fiance visa around December/February '09 for a legal ceremony here... BUT is there a risk of her fiance visa being invalidated?

- Having a religious ceremony in Malaysia in November/December '08... then applying for a Spousal visa and and waiting until May/July '09 for her to be able to come here... Least risk, longest wait? It seems that is the way of the world re: Visas, no?

Ideas? Suggestions? Cautions? Coffee, Tea, Cigarettes? ;-)

Thanks!

Option 1 or 3. Option 2 is too risky to for the few months of inconvenience and the risk is a 10 year ban

[Ana&D 0]

I really wouldn't suggest having a religious ceremony and than applying for a fiance visa. Even if it is considered non-legal, interview consular can deny your visa claiming you two are married. Even worse, she might be denied entry to the US as a fiance if they decide to treat this ceremony as marriage. Thus they can claim fraud and ban her from the country. Many couples reported been denied visa or entry due to such "non-legal" ceremonies. So, be careful.

I suggest talk to your fiance and see what works best for her and her family. Yes, sposal visa will take more time, but knowing your in-laws are happy is priceless.

Another option is to wait for K-1 and marry in civil ceremony in US. Than you file for AOS and when here AP gets there you two can fly down there and have a religious ceremony. But again, if her family will be happy with such an arrangement.

Good luck to you both.

Edited June 29, 2008 by Ana&D

[Todd-Leah 0]

Are you talking about traditional or religious wedding? Religious ceremony can be "official" in Malaysia depends which religion you are talking about, some clergy staffs can do marriage registration.

Fiance visa seems to be going a little faster than spousal visa right now.

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

[pushbrk 13,635]

Are you talking about traditional or religious wedding? Religious ceremony can be "official" in Malaysia depends which religion you are talking about, some clergy staffs can do marriage registration.

Fiance visa seems to be going a little faster than spousal visa right now.

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

I'd lean toward an option like the above or just getting married and going for a spouse visa. It seems like you are wanting to meet a target date for her coming to the USA. The more you learn about the visa process, the more you'll understand that's really not a practical priority. Generally, I suggest couples make the when and where to marry decision best for them, followed by embarking on the visa process appropriate to that choice.

In China, it is very common for couples to have engagement parties or traditional "tea ceremonies" after the visa is in hand but there's never any doubt whether such celebrations constitute legal marriage. They don't. If you prefer to start the visa process now for your fiancee, I would advise you have no ceremony anybody could miscontrue as a marriage until after she arrives in the USA. If there is some kind of celebration or ceremony the bride's family would like to hold, it should be after the visa is in hand and one, that cannot possibly be construed as having legally married.

Edited June 29, 2008 by pushbrk

[rebeccajo 14]

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

Leah -

Doing so would cause misrepresentation at the port of entry. Misrepresentation, if uncovered by USCIS, means deportation by ICE and a ban for life.

[chris-lei 1]

If I were in your situation that you have to satisfy her family, I'd take option 3. Option 2 is risky. There have been posts/threads here that visas were denied beacuse the couple had non-legal religious ceremony. It s clearly stated that the benificiary should be single when she reaches the US soil should she go for the K1 route. She might be denied at POE if she's already married and under K1.

[BigCityDave 0]

If I were in your situation that you have to satisfy her family, I'd take option 3. Option 2 is risky. There have been posts/threads here that visas were denied beacuse the couple had non-legal religious ceremony. It s clearly stated that the benificiary should be single when she reaches the US soil should she go for the K1 route. She might be denied at POE if she's already married and under K1.

If you hold some sort of ceremony I wouldn't show the USCIS pictures of that otherwise they might assume there was a marriage.

[Todd-Leah 0]

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

Leah -

Doing so would cause misrepresentation at the port of entry. Misrepresentation, if uncovered by USCIS, means deportation by ICE and a ban for life.

I am talking about a traditional ceremony, which is not necessary religious and not "official" in Malaysia.

They are ceremonies to introduce the couples to relatives and friends of the family. i.e. for Chinese Malaysian, it's the "tea ceremony". Whereas religious ceremony perform by a pastor, imam, priest, monk can be "official" if they are also marriage registrars who qualified to register marriages.

I do think it's ok to have a traditional ceremony, you don't have to tell all this at the POE and if ask whether you were married, just answer "No", because you are not married under Malaysian law.

(Before 1982, traditional ceremonies or public declaration of marriage are considered binding and official in Malaysia.)

Leah

[pushbrk 13,635]

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

Leah -

Doing so would cause misrepresentation at the port of entry. Misrepresentation, if uncovered by USCIS, means deportation by ICE and a ban for life.

I am talking about a traditional ceremony, which is not necessary religious and not "official" in Malaysia.

They are ceremonies to introduce the couples to relatives and friends of the family. i.e. for Chinese Malaysian, it's the "tea ceremony". Whereas religious ceremony perform by a pastor, imam, priest, monk can be "official" if they are also marriage registrars who qualified to register marriages.

I do think it's ok to have a traditional ceremony, you don't have to tell all this at the POE and if ask whether you were married, just answer "No", because you are not married under Malaysian law.

(Before 1982, traditional ceremonies or public declaration of marriage are considered binding and official in Malaysia.)

Leah

Thanks for clarifying that. A tea ceremony and banquet after visa is in hand is not a problem but it is also not a "wedding" per se. Are there other Malaysian "traditional ceremonies" that would be similarly benign.

[Todd-Leah 0]

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

Leah -

Doing so would cause misrepresentation at the port of entry. Misrepresentation, if uncovered by USCIS, means deportation by ICE and a ban for life.

I am talking about a traditional ceremony, which is not necessary religious and not "official" in Malaysia.

They are ceremonies to introduce the couples to relatives and friends of the family. i.e. for Chinese Malaysian, it's the "tea ceremony". Whereas religious ceremony perform by a pastor, imam, priest, monk can be "official" if they are also marriage registrars who qualified to register marriages.

I do think it's ok to have a traditional ceremony, you don't have to tell all this at the POE and if ask whether you were married, just answer "No", because you are not married under Malaysian law.

(Before 1982, traditional ceremonies or public declaration of marriage are considered binding and official in Malaysia.)

Leah

Thanks for clarifying that. A tea ceremony and banquet after visa is in hand is not a problem but it is also not a "wedding" per se. Are there other Malaysian "traditional ceremonies" that would be similarly benign.

Before the compulsory registration of marriages come into effect in 1982, a public declaration of marriage through a banquet, a tea ceremony, a temple ceremony, an ancestor worship ceremony, ... are considered binding at times of dispute.

Currently, registration of marriages is different for Muslims and Non Muslims. Muslims according to Syariah law and non Muslims under the civil law.

The Muslims wedding usually have two parts: the Angkat Nikah(signing of the marriage contract) and the kenduri (a banquet). The angkat nikah can be perform by a religious figure or the bride or groom's father. The angkat nikah is binding, the kenduri is not.

For Non Muslims, traditional or religious ceremonies are not binding, until you sign the papers with a marriage registrar.

i.e. the Christian wedding. The "church ceremony" or solemnization is not binding, unless the pastor or priest is also marriage registrar (not all are) and have you sign the papers.

i.e. the Taoist's "ancestor worship ceremony" is not binding, unless it's done at a temple with a marriage registrar and you sign the papers.

For Non Muslims, most people just register their marriages at the civil office, some will have traditional or religious ceremonies before or after the registration, some will not have any ceremonies at all.

In another word, you marriages are only "official" under Malaysian law if you sign the papers.

Leah

[Kamaboko 0]

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

Leah -

Doing so would cause misrepresentation at the port of entry. Misrepresentation, if uncovered by USCIS, means deportation by ICE and a ban for life.

I am talking about a traditional ceremony, which is not necessary religious and not "official" in Malaysia.

They are ceremonies to introduce the couples to relatives and friends of the family. i.e. for Chinese Malaysian, it's the "tea ceremony". Whereas religious ceremony perform by a pastor, imam, priest, monk can be "official" if they are also marriage registrars who qualified to register marriages.

I do think it's ok to have a traditional ceremony, you don't have to tell all this at the POE and if ask whether you were married, just answer "No", because you are not married under Malaysian law.

(Before 1982, traditional ceremonies or public declaration of marriage are considered binding and official in Malaysia.)

Leah

Thanks for clarifying that. A tea ceremony and banquet after visa is in hand is not a problem but it is also not a "wedding" per se. Are there other Malaysian "traditional ceremonies" that would be similarly benign.

Before the compulsory registration of marriages come into effect in 1982, a public declaration of marriage through a banquet, a tea ceremony, a temple ceremony, an ancestor worship ceremony, ... are considered binding at times of dispute.

Currently, registration of marriages is different for Muslims and Non Muslims. Muslims according to Syariah law and non Muslims under the civil law.

The Muslims wedding usually have two parts: the Angkat Nikah(signing of the marriage contract) and the kenduri (a banquet). The angkat nikah can be perform by a religious figure or the bride or groom's father. The angkat nikah is binding, the kenduri is not.

For Non Muslims, traditional or religious ceremonies are not binding, until you sign the papers with a marriage registrar.

i.e. the Christian wedding. The "church ceremony" or solemnization is not binding, unless the pastor or priest is also marriage registrar (not all are) and have you sign the papers.

i.e. the Taoist's "ancestor worship ceremony" is not binding, unless it's done at a temple with a marriage registrar and you sign the papers.

For Non Muslims, most people just register their marriages at the civil office, some will have traditional or religious ceremonies before or after the registration, some will not have any ceremonies at all.

In another word, you marriages are only "official" under Malaysian law if you sign the papers.

Leah

What if there's no paper signing in angkat nikah in Malay? Is that considered binding there? I suppose that is what is meant by most people who do Islamic religious ceremony.

[Todd-Leah 0]

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

Leah -

Doing so would cause misrepresentation at the port of entry. Misrepresentation, if uncovered by USCIS, means deportation by ICE and a ban for life.

I am talking about a traditional ceremony, which is not necessary religious and not "official" in Malaysia.

They are ceremonies to introduce the couples to relatives and friends of the family. i.e. for Chinese Malaysian, it's the "tea ceremony". Whereas religious ceremony perform by a pastor, imam, priest, monk can be "official" if they are also marriage registrars who qualified to register marriages.

I do think it's ok to have a traditional ceremony, you don't have to tell all this at the POE and if ask whether you were married, just answer "No", because you are not married under Malaysian law.

(Before 1982, traditional ceremonies or public declaration of marriage are considered binding and official in Malaysia.)

Leah

Thanks for clarifying that. A tea ceremony and banquet after visa is in hand is not a problem but it is also not a "wedding" per se. Are there other Malaysian "traditional ceremonies" that would be similarly benign.

Before the compulsory registration of marriages come into effect in 1982, a public declaration of marriage through a banquet, a tea ceremony, a temple ceremony, an ancestor worship ceremony, ... are considered binding at times of dispute.

Currently, registration of marriages is different for Muslims and Non Muslims. Muslims according to Syariah law and non Muslims under the civil law.

The Muslims wedding usually have two parts: the Angkat Nikah(signing of the marriage contract) and the kenduri (a banquet). The angkat nikah can be perform by a religious figure or the bride or groom's father. The angkat nikah is binding, the kenduri is not.

For Non Muslims, traditional or religious ceremonies are not binding, until you sign the papers with a marriage registrar.

i.e. the Christian wedding. The "church ceremony" or solemnization is not binding, unless the pastor or priest is also marriage registrar (not all are) and have you sign the papers.

i.e. the Taoist's "ancestor worship ceremony" is not binding, unless it's done at a temple with a marriage registrar and you sign the papers.

For Non Muslims, most people just register their marriages at the civil office, some will have traditional or religious ceremonies before or after the registration, some will not have any ceremonies at all.

In another word, you marriages are only "official" under Malaysian law if you sign the papers.

Leah

What if there's no paper signing in angkat nikah in Malay? Is that considered binding there? I suppose that is what is meant by most people who do Islamic religious ceremony.

I am not sure I understand what do you mean by no paper signing in angkat nikah. I thought "nikkah" mean signing papers. :-)

Anyway, I am not an expert on this as I am not a Muslim nor Malay.

Leah

[Ghorabaa 0]

Are you talking about traditional or religious wedding? Religious ceremony can be "official" in Malaysia depends which religion you are talking about, some clergy staffs can do marriage registration.

Fiance visa seems to be going a little faster than spousal visa right now.

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

This is the option I was hoping to use. If after the visa is approved and a traditional marriage is completed without any paperwork how would the officer at the POE know if the couple is coming as fiancee or married? I hope someone on here can answer this.

[Kamaboko 0]

Are you talking about traditional or religious wedding? Religious ceremony can be "official" in Malaysia depends which religion you are talking about, some clergy staffs can do marriage registration.

Fiance visa seems to be going a little faster than spousal visa right now.

The 4th option: Apply for a fiance visa. When it gets approved, have a traditional wedding in Malaysia(if it's important to her and her family) before you bring her back to America to have the official marriage registration and another wedding?

Leah

This is the option I was hoping to use. If after the visa is approved and a traditional marriage is completed without any paperwork how would the officer at the POE know if the couple is coming as fiancee or married? I hope someone on here can answer this.

They won't know until you show your occasion's pictures. I do not think it's a big deal Although you should be careful with this matter. It varies from different countries. As to where I live, ceremony won't be considered legal until it is brought up to religious affair department where paperwork is signed.